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This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 11:49:37 AM

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Forget climate change, just look at some obvious facts:

1) Smog is a known health hazard, causing respiratory distress in children, elderly and anyone with any kind of lung disease, so what the fuck is the problem with cleaning up the air we breathe?

This means car exhaust, industrial air pollution all of it

2) Do people really like going to a beach that is covered with garbage that has been floating around the ocean for years?

Of course there is this fact:
The entire Great Pacific Garbage Patch is bounded by the North Pacific Subtropical Gyre. An ocean gyre is a system of circular ocean currents formed by the Earth’s wind patterns and the forces created by the rotation of the planet. The North Pacific Subtropical Gyre is created by the interaction of the California, North Equatorial, Kuroshiro, and North Pacific currents. These four currents move in a clockwise direction around an area of 20 million square kilometers (7.7 million square miles).

3) The Flint MI water problem had less to do with water treatment and more to do with the source of the drinking water, a river so polluted that it was a fucking health hazard.

So forget about climate change and I want to know one simple thing, isnt about time we started taking care of the only planet we got?

Would anyone really want their house to have brown air? Would you take a bath in brown water with trash floating in it?

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 11:54:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Forget climate change, just look at some obvious facts:

1) Smog is a known health hazard, causing respiratory distress in children, elderly and anyone with any kind of lung disease, so what the fuck is the problem with cleaning up the air we breathe?

This means car exhaust, industrial air pollution all of it

2) Do people really like going to a beach that is covered with garbage that has been floating around the ocean for years?

Of course there is this fact:
The entire Great Pacific Garbage Patch is bounded by the North Pacific Subtropical Gyre. An ocean gyre is a system of circular ocean currents formed by the Earth’s wind patterns and the forces created by the rotation of the planet. The North Pacific Subtropical Gyre is created by the interaction of the California, North Equatorial, Kuroshiro, and North Pacific currents. These four currents move in a clockwise direction around an area of 20 million square kilometers (7.7 million square miles).

3) The Flint MI water problem had less to do with water treatment and more to do with the source of the drinking water, a river so polluted that it was a fucking health hazard.

So forget about climate change and I want to know one simple thing, isnt about time we started taking care of the only planet we got?

Would anyone really want their house to have brown air? Would you take a bath in brown water with trash floating in it?

Apparently thinking that not shitting where you eat is anti-business, and an illuminati con designed to wreck the American economy.
Either that or the "wealth creators" are too cheap to reduce emissions and what they say goes.
Great, innit?

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 12:06:17 PM

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I've been preaching this for some time. (years) I talk about water as we all do in the SW and I get 'oh we're fine, the planet is covered in water.'

Yea and so far with the last I read, 19 tubes in the pacific result in desalinated potable water, is as we type about on average, $150/MONTH extra for the average household. That's several times the cost now.

I've also preached investing in the true air-filtration mask market.

What's not understood and yes, the profit-motive has and will get in the way, and including man's carbon footprint, all requires mankind to take actions even if a low level carbon tax is inadvisable and man isn't causing global warming.

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 12:45:02 PM

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Why does dealing with any of those things mean that we need to forget about climate change?

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 12:52:48 PM

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quote:

isnt about time we started taking care of the only planet we got?

quote:

Long past time.

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 1:34:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Why does dealing with any of those things mean that we need to forget about climate change?

To remove it from the possibility of someone coming along and turning it into a climate change argument.

These things are true, independent of any discussion of climate change. So the idea is to deal with that, rather then argue about other things.

So please don't start arguing about whether or not climate change is relevant here.

This is where we are, how do we deal with it.

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 2:32:24 PM

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quote:

This means car exhaust

Cars run cleaner than ever. The exhaust is almost pure
co2 and water which are the output of stoichometric burning of a hydrocarbon.

Industrial processes are a different story, some of them are very dirty ad not easy to clean up. But we need those industries otherwise we have to buy steel abroad. Now that would be something, buying it from China. However it is doubtful they would sell it (back) because they intend to use it.

Global warming, smog, whatever, it comes with the territory. So far, there is no economical way to clean up certain things.

What we need is "dirty zones" where most of these processes are performed and the wind patterns take the nasty shit out to sea. That doesn't help the planet but it helps us, and that is what we need to think about. China doesn't care about the rest of the world, India or whatever. Until EVERYONE does it those who do lose the competitive edge and along with it with it, market share. That happened to Solyndra, which was a bad idea from the gitgo. Liberals supported it and fleeced the taxpayers out of millions. Not the whole half trillion though, some comes back via liquidation. That does not change the fact that liberals, instead of looking at market viability, concerned themselves with looking good doing a feelgood project. Typical people ignorant of business. But then there are many republicans just as ignorant. George W Bush ran a ton of businesses into the ground, each time financed by his rich buddies. Romney is a corporate scrap Man. At least Trump gave those businesses a chance before axing them.

And don't forget other pollution. There is now a class action lawsuit against Monsanto because Roundup has been found to be a carcinogen. That was found years ago but Monsanto paid a bunch of money to have it hushed up. Now our food is dirty. That is why the original good government of Ukraine wanted nothing to do with it they valued that nice rich soil. Now the US friendly government has capitulated and they are fucking up that environment as well. In fact they went to the EU to force countries to accept their poison. Some "simple trade agreement" eh ? And once you depend on Roundup you are stuck with it. It also pollutes nearby, possibly organic arms.

T^T

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 2:37:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Why does dealing with any of those things mean that we need to forget about climate change?

You would not understand that some people do not have a one track mind.

T^T

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 2:41:34 PM

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quote:

Apparently thinking that not shitting where you eat is anti-business,

The people who are running things do not eat there like the rest of us. They pay extra for good food and a clean neighborhood in which to live. But it does bite them in the ass when they get Roundup and their kids play out in the yard. Yup, it looks like a golf course but the kids are on chemotherapy. Someday i hope they all are.

T^T

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 2:41:50 PM

LORDOFTHERINGS19

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Its a Chinese hoax you communist fuk...and in no way did he, or his molested daughter, ever write an email to OBAMA in 2009 asking Obama what he was doing about climate change.

My mental liege Lying Cunt Trump declared it so and ~~this is a beast who has - fuk that~~

And two countries on earth did not sign up to the Paris accord.
Americashire
Syriashire

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 2:42:59 PM

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quote:

To remove it from the possibility of someone coming along and turning it into a climate change argument.

With the ultrasikeningliberals liberals around ? Fat chance.

T^T

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 2:46:05 PM

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And so it begins... Thanks termy.

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 3:01:36 PM

LORDOFTHERINGS19

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The two above me are fucking idiots

guffaws

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 9:36:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
So please don't start arguing about whether or not climate change is relevant here.

This is where we are, how do we deal with it.

I guess I thought he was feeding us that line of 'look at all of these problems, we should sideline AGW'.

But if he meant not bringing it up in this thread, then a better way to accomplish this would be to not mention it at all.
This is sort of like saying 'don't think about the color red'.

I bet you're thinking about the color red, right?

Regardless, isn't it pretty much unanimous that people don't like breathing dirty air, swimming in or drinking dirty water?
There's not really much of a debate to be had there.
I can't imagine anyone coming along and saying 'I think we should pollute the air and water more'.

Anyways, fat chance of there being cleaner anything with Pruitt as the head of the EPA.

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/30/2017 10:48:40 PM

JVoV

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The EPA isn't the only environmental agency in this country. Each state has one as well. Then counties and cities are able to make stricter laws on top of all that.

Regulations have to be balanced, in order to be able to protect the environment as well as keep the economy alive. Fine tuning can be done on a state and local level at any time, keeping federal laws and regulations as the minimum standard.

More importantly, a realistic alternative or fix to any given issue may not be readily available, or may be cost prohibitive. Even for things we may think should be common sense solutions.

Biofuels currently have a much bigger negative impact on the environment to be grown and processed than gasoline. Gasoline also doesn't take farmland away from growing our food supply. (The real solution here would be to use marijuana as biofuel instead of corn, but we're a ways off from that.)

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/31/2017 4:54:18 AM

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I prefer moonshine as a biofuel myself, JV. Should be easy with a few changes to an engine to gear her up to accept that lovely (and sometimes lethal) fluid. There have been a few places to make it a legal drink with the proper filtration system.

Also, when my brother was living in Mongolia, he complained about the soot on the snow from all the coal burning they are doing there as well as the smog. not really a win-win situation.

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/31/2017 5:30:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne

I prefer moonshine as a biofuel myself, JV. Should be easy with a few changes to an engine to gear her up to accept that lovely (and sometimes lethal) fluid. There have been a few places to make it a legal drink with the proper filtration system.

Also, when my brother was living in Mongolia, he complained about the soot on the snow from all the coal burning they are doing there as well as the smog. not really a win-win situation.

I thought alcohol burned too cold to be much use as liquid fuel for an engine?

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/31/2017 7:56:26 AM

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Why not bring back steam cars?

https://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car/

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 10/31/2017 8:00:07 AM

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At a guess because burning enough coal to keep a steam boiler going in a car would put even more crap into the air than it just burning petrol or another liquid fuel, and because people probably wouldn't remember that they needed to stoke up their car an hour or two before they needed to use it a lot of the time as well?

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RE: This is not about climate change but.... - 11/1/2017 9:01:47 AM

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The most efficient (burns the least fuel) system is to keep the combustion as close to the end result as possible.
Electric cars cost more fuel than internal combustion due to the maximum 28% conversion efficiency. But, electric cars to get the fuel exhaust off the roads where it is readily observed and off in suburban settings where the power plants are belching the exhaust into the air.

One of the simplest remedies to air pollution is to get the people out of the canker sores that urban areas are. The environment can handle reasonable amounts of trash but not the insane amounts generated in overcrowded urban areas.

One good example of what concentrated urban waste can do is the hundred mile diameter bacterial culture of the New York Bight. Decades of dumping barge loads of trash into the ocean has left the Bight as the largest known anerobic bacteria culture in existence. Heavy storms bring on instances of flesh eating bacteria on beaches from Cape May to the Jersey Shore. This was first identified as a problem in the early 1970s.
Link to 1972 report:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZ1-Wy3Z3XAhVHyFQKHXDFAAQQFghTMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nefsc.noaa.gov%2Fpublications%2Fseries%2Fmacfc%2Fmacfc002.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2AwMWpdNU4a-hQWT2Hxwyg

Recent web articles:
https://woodshole.er.usgs.gov/project-pages/newyork/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Bight
https://books.google.com/books?id=-5rGpSmIGcMC&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=new+york+bight+bacteria+outbreak&source=bl&ots=mLteVWE7aV&sig=j7lcTAcZAcd-WFYjeTRizvWgfHE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix093R253XAhVhr1QKHbxlBAoQ6AEIQzAF#v=onepage&q=new%20york%20bight%20bacteria%20outbreak&f=false
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00139157.1985.9931311?journalCode=venv20

And other urban considerations...
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/new-york-city-rats-carry-deadly-bacteria-viruses-study-article-1.2136586

Solutions that cause other problems...
Convenience packaging creates much much more waste than older methods of packaging.
Biodegradable can also be translated as "bacterial culture medium".

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