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RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 11:03:32 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
They're not, his own party is at this point.
I'd be intrigued to hearing your working out on why the republicans dropping the bar doesn't mean the democrats can conduct themselves at a lower level themselves, though.

Are you implying that it's okay for one party to obstruct the other party because the other party obstructed the first party first?
At some point, one of the parties is going to have to stop obstructing and start compromising. That didn't happen with Obama, but the Democrats didn't really want to compromise, either. If the Democrats don't "take the high road" with Trump, I find it hard to believe the GOP will do so with the next Democrat President.

As the republicans have spent the last three democrat presidencies demonstrating that they won't take the high road, expecting them to do so in future is absurd.
As they've demonstrated that they're incapable of compromising, expecting the democrats to continue trying to do so (after Obama's grovelling and fawning at them in a Steppin Fetchit style for his whole first term was rebuffed) is equally absurd.
In a political system that makes it clear that 'compromise" is a euphemism for "unconditional surrender to what the other side want", expecting either party to cave in is absurd. Myself, I'd like to see the democrats treating the current president with the same degree of contempt that their last guy received from his party. You can make high handed moral judgements about petty tit for tat not belonging in politics all you like, but there is no earthly point in trying to negotiate with people who will not make any concessions under any circumstances. You seem to to regard taking the high road as backing down and letting the other bunch win, and it's no less absurd to expect that from the dems than it is to expect it from the reps.


Got it. You're okay with it. Obviously, there's no point in discussing it with you any further. Thank you for your honesty.


You don't think that expecting more of the opponents you've spent your whole life as voter dismissing as clueless scum than of the people you've chosen to support seems a bit off?


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RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 11:05:44 AM   
Musicmystery


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In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.

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RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 11:10:00 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.

The electoral college seems to be there to elect the minority candidate as president, FFS...

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RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 12:00:28 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.


Damn that Constitution, right? Since we're not a simple democracy, I'm perfectly okay with the minority party being able to obstruct, even as I'd much rather see both parties work together. I put no faith in coastal representatives understanding (or even caring) about what the non-coastal citizens want or need.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 12:35:08 PM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.


Damn that Constitution, right? Since we're not a simple democracy, I'm perfectly okay with the minority party being able to obstruct, even as I'd much rather see both parties work together. I put no faith in coastal representatives understanding (or even caring) about what the non-coastal citizens want or need.


So why do you bother supporting one party over the other, or even voting in that case?

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RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 12:44:07 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.


Damn that Constitution, right? Since we're not a simple democracy, I'm perfectly okay with the minority party being able to obstruct, even as I'd much rather see both parties work together. I put no faith in coastal representatives understanding (or even caring) about what the non-coastal citizens want or need.


Or vice versa. The Heartland isn’t automatically populated with saints.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 1:01:53 PM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.


Damn that Constitution, right? Since we're not a simple democracy, I'm perfectly okay with the minority party being able to obstruct, even as I'd much rather see both parties work together. I put no faith in coastal representatives understanding (or even caring) about what the non-coastal citizens want or need.


Or vice versa. The Heartland isn’t automatically populated with saints.

I'm not the only one who found the spectacle of a particularly repulsive specimen of silver spoon elitist spawn from the big city enclave of America-haters that is New York pitching his rhetoric and campaign at the "real Americans" he wouldn't piss on if they were on fire hilarious, then?

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 1:03:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.

Damn that Constitution, right? Since we're not a simple democracy, I'm perfectly okay with the minority party being able to obstruct, even as I'd much rather see both parties work together. I put no faith in coastal representatives understanding (or even caring) about what the non-coastal citizens want or need.

So why do you bother supporting one party over the other, or even voting in that case?


On the off chance that the representatives will actually compromise, I'd like the opportunity for my beliefs to be represented.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 1:05:09 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.

Damn that Constitution, right? Since we're not a simple democracy, I'm perfectly okay with the minority party being able to obstruct, even as I'd much rather see both parties work together. I put no faith in coastal representatives understanding (or even caring) about what the non-coastal citizens want or need.

Or vice versa. The Heartland isn’t automatically populated with saints.


The minority will always be the "Heartland," thus no need for vice versas.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 1:08:02 PM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, the Constitution is designed specifically to help the minority obstruct.

Damn that Constitution, right? Since we're not a simple democracy, I'm perfectly okay with the minority party being able to obstruct, even as I'd much rather see both parties work together. I put no faith in coastal representatives understanding (or even caring) about what the non-coastal citizens want or need.

So why do you bother supporting one party over the other, or even voting in that case?


On the off chance that the representatives will actually compromise, I'd like the opportunity for my beliefs to be represented.


If you wanted a compromise, you should have voted for Clinton: she's spent her whole political career refusing to take a stand on anything. I doubt she'd storm away from from the negotiations in a feigned snit then tweet that the other lot were dissing her powers when they didn't beg her to come back and accept her terms afterwards...

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RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 1:54:47 PM   
AtUrCervix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
I said I think (know) that Obama failed. He had 8 years. The liberals that hate Trump think he's done after 9 months. Trump is doing fine. 7 more years and America will be great again.

Only because that means the next guy/gal up has had 4 years to work on it.
I completely agree that Trump hasn't been granted enough time yet before he's been deemed a failure by those on the Left (and some on the Right). The big problem is that Trump is still learning about 'how' to be President and what needs to be done by a President. He can't do things the same way he has as a business owner. I truly believe that's Trump's biggest issue so far. If he can figure that out, he'll be fine. If not, he'll continue to be a twittering fool.
Regardless, America will be fine. In the long run, Trump's Presidency will likely matter as a historical lesson.

Desi, there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".


The difference between Trump and the rest of them, he hasn't been a politician, so he's a couple steps behind the rest, right off the bat. Trump's learning curve is much higher than the rest, and he's narcissistic, egotistical, and obstinate enough that his learning curve is going to be much longer than it has to be.




And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".

Wake the FUCK up.

(And there have been 44 before him and....there have been TUMULTUOUS times....in the last 240 some years).

Get over yourself.....(everyone else...get over YOURSELVES!!!).

READ history (it's a beautiful thing....reading...as in anything...at all)....this ain't the worst....and he's not even the most tumultuous.....Prez.

Stop reading in to THIS Moment....YOUR fears.

There have been FAR worse times and FAR worse events.

Than...this.

The guy is a DICK.

(There have been OTHER Dicks in history...he's NOT even the worst of them!!!)

He's also trying to fix shit.

Which YOU (and I) contributed to.

Get over your own PERSONAL shit.

THIS Point in HISTORY.........

IS about you!

You asked for the roads...YOU asked for the free phones and cheese....YOU (WE....every ONE of us) asked for EVERY fucking BIT of the shit that we are all now IN DEBT FOR!!!

The Bill is due and EVERY one of us...by default....asked for these things.

Buck up.

Pay up.



< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 11/13/2017 1:57:23 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 2:16:46 PM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".

Actually, the problem is that biovating scrotum in the white house decided how to be president before he was sworn in, and has spent the last year throwing tantrums because his take on that just doesn't work, but he's not going to change it because the world is wrong and he's right.
Just the sort of person you want running the country...

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 2:40:10 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
bounty, does the thought of cuts to pay for this ever enter the GOP/conservative/alt-right minds????
Because there's nothing but "I have faith the economy will magically grow to generate more than the foregone revenue."
A faith based on nothing but a belief in an already oft-discredited ideology.
It is NO different than the "comrades" wanting services with no idea how to fund them.
BOTH are mindless, simplistic, frankly child-like ideologies.
And this "plan" is a prime example.

The GOP always offers cuts to spending. It's cuts to spending growth (this is also how the Democrats do it, too).
Stated: "We're axing spending by $500B on XYZ!"
Reality: Spending was going to increased by $1T over 10 years, but now, it's "only" going to increase $500B!
Plus, they have all these "cuts" backloaded over 10 years, so most of them won't even be there when it comes time to cut. Plus, by that time, there will be a hue and cry to not cut "my" spending and the cuts-that-aren't-really-cuts end up not happening then, either.
Not cutting revenues (if you look at the revenues under Bush, his tax cuts didn't result in reduced revenues) is almost enabling Government to continue to waste money left and right (figurative figure of speech, and also indicative that both sides are guilty of it, btw).

quote:

Not cutting revenues (if you look at the revenues under Bush, his tax cuts didn't result in reduced revenues)

Not according to these people and others.
The surplus in the fiscal 2001 federal budget was $127 billion. The 2010 budget had a budget deficit of $1.3 trillion. The long-term national debt more than doubled from $5.6 trillion in 2000 to $13.6 trillion in 2010, mostly under Bush’s watch.
Federal tax receipts in 2010 were 14.9 percent of gross domestic product. In 2000 it was as high as 20 percent.
Department of the Treasury, usgovernmentrevenue.com


You're arguing %GDP with actual dollars. That's apples to oranges. Since things are priced in actual dollars and not %GDP, I tend to work with actual dollar amounts. YMMV


The facts are that with the tax cuts, federal revenue fell precipitously and drove the treasury right into deficit. Cutting taxes twice, once on 1040 rates and again on corp. taxes and cap gains and financing it with more repub borrowing.

The first tax cut the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, was signed into law June 7, 2001. It began to affect revenues almost immediately as "advance rebate" checks were mailed to millions of taxpayers starting that July. After the fiscal year ended Sept. 30, 2001, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office calculated that those rebates had already amounted to $35 billion. As a result, CBO said, federal income tax receipts fell that year, rather than posting an increase.

Total federal revenues declined not only in 2001, but also in the following two years, according to CBO historical budget figures. In fiscal 2002, total revenues declined by $138 billion, and in fiscal 2003, they went down for a third year in a row — by nearly $71 billion. Revenues turned up in fiscal 2004, but didn't reach pre-tax-cut levels until fiscal year 2005.

HERE

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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 2:53:47 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".

Actually, the problem is that biovating scrotum in the white house decided how to be president before he was sworn in, and has spent the last year throwing tantrums because his take on that just doesn't work, but he's not going to change it because the world is wrong and he's right.
Just the sort of person you want running the country...

Well but wait WM, I mean if you want some more arsenic poisoning in your water table, want some brain damaging pesticide in your neighborhood's air, you want TARP II, you want 2 or 3 tiered Internet, if you want large companies, you know, the little guy, exempt from OSHA and EEOC reporting...then Trump is your man. We now enter the brave new world of Trump $wamp !!

I mean come-on-man, we are here to make some fucking money aren't we ? I mean how do we care how we do it ? The world's dirt, air, water, ocean and atmosphere are all...profit centers. Got it now ?

I mean we should still have lead in our gasoline and our paint. Think of the profits robbed from us there. We should still have Thalidomide and FIOXX and...and...and. I mean those were billion$ all lost profits all because of fucking govt. regulations.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 2:54:30 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
I said I think (know) that Obama failed. He had 8 years. The liberals that hate Trump think he's done after 9 months. Trump is doing fine. 7 more years and America will be great again.

Only because that means the next guy/gal up has had 4 years to work on it.
I completely agree that Trump hasn't been granted enough time yet before he's been deemed a failure by those on the Left (and some on the Right). The big problem is that Trump is still learning about 'how' to be President and what needs to be done by a President. He can't do things the same way he has as a business owner. I truly believe that's Trump's biggest issue so far. If he can figure that out, he'll be fine. If not, he'll continue to be a twittering fool.
Regardless, America will be fine. In the long run, Trump's Presidency will likely matter as a historical lesson.

Desi, there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".


The difference between Trump and the rest of them, he hasn't been a politician, so he's a couple steps behind the rest, right off the bat. Trump's learning curve is much higher than the rest, and he's narcissistic, egotistical, and obstinate enough that his learning curve is going to be much longer than it has to be.




And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".


Wake the FUCK up.

(And there have been 44 before him and....there have been TUMULTUOUS times....in the last 240 some years).

Get over yourself.....(everyone else...get over YOURSELVES!!!).

READ history (it's a beautiful thing....reading...as in anything...at all)....this ain't the worst....and he's not even the most tumultuous.....Prez.

Stop reading in to THIS Moment....YOUR fears.

There have been FAR worse times and FAR worse events.

Than...this.

The guy is a DICK.

(There have been OTHER Dicks in history...he's NOT even the worst of them!!!)

He's also trying to fix shit.

Which YOU (and I) contributed to.

Get over your own PERSONAL shit.

THIS Point in HISTORY.........

IS about you!

You asked for the roads...YOU asked for the free phones and cheese....YOU (WE....every ONE of us) asked for EVERY fucking BIT of the shit that we are all now IN DEBT FOR!!!

The Bill is due and EVERY one of us...by default....asked for these things.

Buck up.

Pay up.



If you think Trump’s run is typical, YOU need to wake up.

And, if you think Trump’s tax cuts are going to pay for roads etc. . . . . Wake up again!

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 3:01:14 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".

Actually, the problem is that biovating scrotum in the white house decided how to be president before he was sworn in, and has spent the last year throwing tantrums because his take on that just doesn't work, but he's not going to change it because the world is wrong and he's right.
Just the sort of person you want running the country...


Name me ONE President who knew how to run the show.....before they got in.

Name me ONE President who figured it out...in the first two years.

Pick ONE man (they've all been men) who knew the game....before they grabbed the keys.

(And by the way...name one of YOU who could do better).

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 3:21:47 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
At this point, I would be happy with someone who didn't repeatedly call the people he is supposed to represent "haters and losers", and organizations within his own government "hacks".

I would expect that to be Presidenting 101. And I didn't see any other past presidents have issue with that first lesson.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 3:22:26 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
Better than Trump? Nearly all of them. Maybe all of them (we did have a couple of especially poor ones in the 19th century.

And of course we aren’t presidential material. Duh. We’re good at our own professional areas.

Trump should have stuck to real estate swindling.

Because he’s fucking lost in the White House.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 3:47:26 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".

Actually, the problem is that biovating scrotum in the white house decided how to be president before he was sworn in, and has spent the last year throwing tantrums because his take on that just doesn't work, but he's not going to change it because the world is wrong and he's right.
Just the sort of person you want running the country...


Name me ONE President who knew how to run the show.....before they got in.

Name me ONE President who figured it out...in the first two years.

Pick ONE man (they've all been men) who knew the game....before they grabbed the keys.

(And by the way...name one of YOU who could do better).

making excuses for him, is very very fucking sad.


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(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: New GOP Tax Plan - 11/13/2017 7:29:10 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
If you wanted a compromise, you should have voted for Clinton: she's spent her whole political career refusing to take a stand on anything. I doubt she'd storm away from from the negotiations in a feigned snit then tweet that the other lot were dissing her powers when they didn't beg her to come back and accept her terms afterwards...


Hillary was not the candidate that best reflected my beliefs or values. Thus, I could not, in good conscience, vote for her.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 140
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