Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

It is not about the sex.


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> It is not about the sex. Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
It is not about the sex. - 11/12/2017 4:39:05 AM   
Noclueand62


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/20/2016
Status: offline
I have been here a while and I have known that I am a sub for some time. Here is the deal; I am married to a great 200% vanilla woman who for many reasons has drifted away from sex. I do love her but these desires have spilled over from fantasy to real life on 3 occasions. All 3 have been with a professional and all 3 have been utterly fantastic. My last experience through got me looking at my choices. Am I cheating????

My first thought is YES, but the desires become all-consuming and I take it out on her. NEVER violent, that is ABSOLUTELY & TOTALLY unacceptable but by emotionally withdrawing.

So here is the question can this ever be ONLY about submitting control over and not about the sex? And if that is true, is this cheating? I will fully admit that the sexual release at the end is very fulfilling but the journey to get there is totally about releasing total control to someone else.

Or am I just trying to rationalize my behavior?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/12/2017 7:33:14 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
The best answer I think I've ever heard to the 'is it cheating' question is 'would your partner think it's cheating?' If the answer to the latter is yes, you're probably cheating.

Does the wife know that you've had these three experiences with professionals? If not, why not? For whatever reason you are hiding this from her, you really do have the information to answer the question of whether you are cheating or not. Depending on your opinion (and hers) about what cheating constitutes, it could be sexually cheating, emotionally cheating, cyber cheating, or what have you.

As two completely different topics, yes, submission really can be about areas other than sexual submission. It's not about the 'happy ending' to everyone.

The other is that it might be beneficial to do some self examination to ask yourself if you are drifting into the area of the cycle of obsession and compulsion. If you are using terms like all-consuming, it drifts into unhealthy territory.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/12/2017 3:47:11 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
I'm more ambivalent, while I think it would be preferable if the partner knows and agrees, but we don't know what his wife is going through, it might throw her and she might just be in a space where it would really mess her up. Instead of blurting it all out and burdening her with it, rather he is the best hubby he can be, and he could try to approach the issue delicately, without making her feel inferior or that she can't provide something.

Let's face it, when it comes to relationships, for most of us (at least the ones who think with the head on the neck) it is about so much more than just sex or kink, let's say if H would (for whatever reason) lose all carnal interest, I would still be with him, still love him for the person he is. A partnership is just so much more.

If he keeps it within a professional realm, at least there is no danger of it messing with his life and relationship, however, yes, if the wife would agree to it, much better for everybody concerned, but in case she is going through some hormonal problems (I am thinking menopause and such) maybe burdening her with it would just add to her turmoil and make her feel inadequate?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 2:47:12 AM   
Noclueand62


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/20/2016
Status: offline
Ladies, thank you so much for engaging me in this conversation and for not outright condemning me for my choices. I do see your point, LadyPact, about whether or not my wife would think it cheating, yes I believe she would. And no she does not know about the encounters. Maybe “all-consuming” was a little over the top but it is in my thoughts quit a lot during any given day. It is just that the idea of being stripped naked and held helpless before someone and allowing them to force me to do things and them to treat my body as they want is very appealing. I do not desire to have intercourse or anything like that but I must admit that when I think of this release of control it is hard for me to separate that from that happy ending.

The wife’s situation is complicated. I have tried to introduce this into our relationship and early on we did the tying up to the bedpost and a few things like that but when I asked about more, well it did not go any further than that. The physical side of our relationship mostly ended over 15 years ago. She has some physical ailments that are life altering for her and has taking her into depression which as you can imagine has consumed her. Counseling and medications have helped very little but I still love her. Oh and as LadyConstanze mentioned there is always the hormonal problems to compound the issues.

I guess in the end I am just a f’up no good person.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 4:47:45 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
I think I am with LadyPact that, what "cheating" means, means different things to different woman.

If you were my husband and I found out you have a secret submissive kink that needs to be satiated. But you did it behind my back. And I knew it didn't involve penetrative sex, just you serving. I would be upset that we couldn't discuss or talk about this honestly between us but it wouldn't be like divorce level type of upset, but of course you need to factor in that my psyche is kink-aware. And I am sympathetic towards people wanting to fulfill their fetish.

But with a different woman who doesn't understand why.

It could be epic level of hurts to her.

You know your wife best.

All I can say is, if doing this helps you even make your wife happier and treat her better than you ever did in your life. Keep it quiet and keep doing it. She doesn't have to know. But hope it never ever surfaces and she hears about it from someone else. It would kill her.

I believe in shades of grey. But personally, I think I would be just upset to find out my husband is a submissive because I am a submissive and that is not good that he didn't declare before marriage. Assuming it was a vanilla marriage. Of course such things can surface only later in life.


(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 7:07:41 AM   
Noclueand62


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/20/2016
Status: offline
Gteta, I really left myself open to ridicule in opening up this discussion. I just cannot believe how honest yet kind you all have been and trying to help me work through my choices. Thank you all so much for not judging me or condemning me but helping to guide me.

Our marriage was a vanilla as they come and in fact so was I or at least I thought I was. I had these feeling of bondage as a teen put I just thought that’s all there was to it, fantasies of a teen. It was not until several years ago that I began to unmask these feeling that kept surfacing.

I really have tried to address this with her, even going as far as to get some toys but the interest on her part just wasn’t there. Telling her that I have gone outside of our marriage to seek release would not be a good thing as I know she would not accept this.

The times I have sought out the services of a professional it was liberating and did satisfy these desires. Let me be clear though I do love my wife and have never mistreated her. When I said that I take it out on her I mean as anyone with frustrations in life and is miserable tends to make others miserable around them. I would rather to kill myself than to every abuse my wife. There is NEVER a reason a man should ever abuse his wife, NEVER!

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 7:41:30 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
Well because this is a kink website. And because we know submission can don't involve any penetrative sex and infact can be extremely non-sexual. And people who love someone who is not into kink but torn between pursuing kink and loving their partners who will not accept kink is quite common.

So that's why it's more constructive rather than condemning.

(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 10:34:47 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

Or am I just trying to rationalize my behavior?

You got it.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 2:20:30 PM   
Svale


Posts: 68
Joined: 4/7/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noclueand62

I have been here a while and I have known that I am a sub for some time. Here is the deal; I am married to a great 200% vanilla woman who for many reasons has drifted away from sex. I do love her but these desires have spilled over from fantasy to real life on 3 occasions. All 3 have been with a professional and all 3 have been utterly fantastic. My last experience through got me looking at my choices. Am I cheating????

My first thought is YES, but the desires become all-consuming and I take it out on her. NEVER violent, that is ABSOLUTELY & TOTALLY unacceptable but by emotionally withdrawing.

So here is the question can this ever be ONLY about submitting control over and not about the sex? And if that is true, is this cheating? I will fully admit that the sexual release at the end is very fulfilling but the journey to get there is totally about releasing total control to someone else.

Or am I just trying to rationalize my behavior?




You have to have your needs met, but can't you talk about this?

(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 2:22:09 PM   
Svale


Posts: 68
Joined: 4/7/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact



The other is that it might be beneficial to do some self examination to ask yourself if you are drifting into the area of the cycle of obsession and compulsion. If you are using terms like all-consuming, it drifts into unhealthy territory.

[/color]


Don't think so. It is a natural reaction to bdsm starvation.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 3:33:58 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14412
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noclueand62


So here is the question can this ever be ONLY about submitting control over and not about the sex? And if that is true, is this cheating?


Men tend to think cheating is sex. Women tend to be more upset about the emotional betrayal than the physical.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/13/2017 11:02:18 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Men tend to think cheating is sex. Women tend to be more upset about the emotional betrayal than the physical.

I am wondering if this is true. Most women are quite upset about the sex part, even though the man will claim he has no feelings for the other woman.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/14/2017 2:42:55 AM   
Noclueand62


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/20/2016
Status: offline
I have tried talking and introducing this part but it goes no where. I guess it goes back to the old saying I want my cake and eat to too. I am truelly torn between 2 worlds and to be honest I don't know if I deserve either.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/14/2017 8:14:16 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
End of the day. If you want to cheat, you need to throw morals out the window.

What's plaguing you is your moral compass and you know what you are doing is betrayal to your wife.

It's as simple as that. On top of that, she is not well.

You should seek counseling if you are feeling this torn though. For your own situation. Maybe your cravings for your kink is a reaction to deal with stress too.

Deed has been done. You can choose to just never do it again, and that's it, make peace with yourself and keep this a secret forever or run a dangerous game by continuing. You really gotta be great at keeping this totally stealth mode, because you know with your wife's condition, if she finds out, it would be devastating to her recovery I think.

(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/14/2017 8:54:47 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
Don't think so. It is a natural reaction to bdsm starvation.

You do realize that for some of us, we don't experience "BDSM starvation," because it's not a need, but merely a want?



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Svale)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/14/2017 9:25:49 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
Don't think so. It is a natural reaction to bdsm starvation.

Disagree. When I was in a vanilla marriage. I found ways to fulfill my bdsm needs without cheating. My desire to keep my promise of exclusivity to my exhusband was greater than my bdsm needs.

Besides it was a strange situation of because I love my ex-husband, I desired no other men. And had no eyes or even notice any other men or feel anything or any sexual attraction to other men. But I want the BDSM, but I actually specifically want it with my ex-husband and not with anybody else either. But since my ex-husband was vanilla.

So I know I was never getting it from the only person I wanted it from at that time. So that's just it. Not getting any. And I accept it as my fate at that time.


(in reply to Svale)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/15/2017 10:04:14 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
It made no difference to me whether there was sex involved, or not. Once you start keeping secrets, and lying, then you are cheating. People can use whatever they like to justify their actions, validate others so that their own also seem less, but it's all still cheating. Be that on your vows, word given, or whatever. It's about a lack of integrity and respect.

Don't ask others for their opinion to see if they will tell you you're doing the right thing, accept the responsibility for your own choices. If you know that what you choose to do would hurt your wife when she finds out, then it's a dick move. Getting away with it doesn't make it any less of a dick move.

Needles

_____________________________

I deserved better. Not than you, but from you.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/15/2017 10:29:33 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

While I believe there are some people who are lacking in the conscience department, I don't know you so, I will not assume. In fact, I will assume that you do have a conscience.

That is the foundation upon which I am going to base my answer.

At the end of the day, it's a decision you have to make, but you'll need to do some things (in my opinion) in order to come to that decision.

1) Stop seeing your pay-for-play friend.
2) Sit down and have an honest and open discussion with your wife.
3) Give your wife time to process what you tell her.
4) Make your final decision.

1) You need to "distance yourself" a bit from any influences that might drive your decision. I'm speaking, primarily about your friend, here. You're enjoying yourself immensely, right now. It could be a very temporary thing or it could be the "right" thing.

The only way you'll know for sure is if you do everything you can to make sure that your coming decision will be as objective as possible.

That's why I recommend the distance.

2) This may be the toughest part. You need to screw up the courage to speak to your wife like you speak to your close friends (if you've shared your predilection with them). I know this can be a daunting task, but it is essential . If your wife doesn't really know exactly what your needs are, you can't (in my opinion) hold her accountable for not meeting them.

Be brave. Be as kind as you possibly can without sugar-coating anything. Lay it all on the line. In my opinion, this is imperative.

One other thing: I won't presume to know anything about you so ...

IF this is about sexual activity, understand that as we age, some people lose their sex drive. hell, some ladies do so after giving birth. That doesn't make her a bad person, but it needs to be taken into account that if asking her for sex, and she feels this way, you might as well be asking her to eat a food she can't stand. It may (at this point) be an unfair demand.

Which brings us to ...

3) During this discussion, your wife might have a "gut reaction" and give voice to it. It might not be exactly how she feels, if she's given enough time to properly process the discussion.

Wait a month until she has brought it up again (of her own volition). What I mean by that is keep staying away from your friend. Keep your head clear and give your wife the benefit of a doubt.

4) Once you have what you believe to be her final response, you have to sit down and weigh all the factors (keep staying away from your friend). Examine how important it may (or may not) be for you to "have your way" in this case.

Are there children involved?

How will a dissolution affect items that are owned?

This is a HUGE step. Be sure you can make a decision that you can live with. At the end of the day, that's what it has to be about.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I feel for you. I don't mean to be dispassionate. I have been where you are. It sucks, but I promise there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Good luck.



Peace,


Michael


Edit: I need to add this:

I believe there are people to whom this lifestyle is a need. I think for some people, dominance or submission is not a choice, but a way of life.

That also has to be one of the things you think about. If you are, at your base, a submissive person, we may not be talking about "desires", here. We may, indeed, be talking about "NEEDS"


M.P.C.


< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 11/15/2017 10:56:02 AM >


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Noclueand62)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/17/2017 1:03:33 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
Don't think so. It is a natural reaction to bdsm starvation.

You do realize that for some of us, we don't experience "BDSM starvation," because it's not a need, but merely a want?



Oh there you go again, laying siege to their little castle realm with your reality.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: It is not about the sex. - 11/21/2017 5:44:01 AM   
Noclueand62


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/20/2016
Status: offline
I have taken what everyone has said and I think my best course of action is to remove myself from any connection with this world. As for setting my wife down and having a conversation about this, well I do not see where that will do her any good, it might help me but I cannot see it helping her.

I really appreciate all the input and I wish you all well.

Fred

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> It is not about the sex. Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.309