RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting

RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (Full Version)

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bounty44 -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/21/2017 1:19:14 PM)
except for this mnottertroll. its not legislature specific, but its in the ballpark of the conversation. https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/yes-states-can-nullify-some-federal-laws-not-all

DesideriScuri -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/21/2017 6:21:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Doesn't really matter who isn't enforcing the laws, that's another discussion. The point is they are not enforcing the laws we have, how is passing more going to help anything? No, no, no. Those were not good laws. That's why they weren't enforced. These laws, though, these will be fully enforced. [/sarcasm]

MasterDrakk -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/22/2017 2:54:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 except for this mnottertroll. its not legislature specific, but its in the ballpark of the conversation. https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/yes-states-can-nullify-some-federal-laws-not-all well, thats a cute little bit of nothingness, and why there are 'sanctuary cities' why there are many cases of guns to those who shouldnt own them, and so on. it may surprise many of the ignorant rightists that many federal laws don't need to be enforced either.Thats why you have many cowering rightist groups hiding behind religion and public education to violate tax law as they say stupid shit on tv. nullification is not the same by any definition, measure, comparison, or fact as ignorance. We will give that one a grade of your usual #EpicFail

PeonForHer -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 3:52:12 AM)
quote: With nothing else considered ('cause last time, you gave me sh^t for it) this means my AVERAGE male opponent is eight inches taller than me, which means they have a longer arm an leg span than I do, has a body mass greater than mine, and has a type of upper body strength that I don't have. Please tell me how it's "easier" to defend myself? With a pepper spray (or some other non-lethal means)? These are illegal here in the UK, but not so (much) in countries on the European mainland. For instance, Paris: "It’s unclear whether the police would be able to confiscate your pepper spray if they were to search you, so you run the risk of having it taken away. (I’ve never been searched in all my years in France, and there’s no reason why you should be worried about it. Also, it’s obviously less suspicious to be carrying pepper spray as a 5’1″ woman who weighs 115 lbs soaking wet than if you’re 6’4″ with a linebacker’s build.)" http://www.blog.parisunraveled.com/staying-safe-in-paris-can-i-legally-carry-pepper-spray-in-france/ Just a thought ....

heavyblinker -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 8:34:41 AM)
Last time I proposed alternatives to guns and suggested they could have been effective, I was called a victim-blamer. Apparently suggesting that perhaps non-gun-related preparation could prevent someone from becoming a victim is sexist. Only guns are not sexist.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 8:37:58 AM)
Bullshit. That wasn't why you were called that and you know it.

WhoreMods -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 8:49:51 AM)
I'm a bit curious as to why the notion of a gun being useful for self defence has any bearing on the latest spree killing in the first place: a pistol and a concealed carry permit or keeping a shotgun in the house are pretty different to the not-really-assault rifles and sub machine guns that are favoured by nutcases out to slaughter a few people for no good reason, unless you're deliberately blurring the lines to suggest that it's impossible to legislate against the latter without also banning the former, which is a pretty blatant strawman argument.

heavyblinker -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 8:49:56 AM)
Oh right, it was because I suggested being a professional sex worker might mean you end up making contact with more less-than-savory people than the average person. How horribly sexist. Everyone who visits a pro is obviously an absolute gem of a human being... every single one of them.

heavyblinker -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 9:04:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods I'm a bit curious as to why the notion of a gun being useful for self defence has any bearing on the latest spree killing in the first place: a pistol and a concealed carry permit or keeping a shotgun in the house are pretty different to the not-really-assault rifles and sub machine guns that are favoured by nutcases out to slaughter a few people for no good reason, unless you're deliberately blurring the lines to suggest that it's impossible to legislate against the latter without also banning the former, which is a pretty blatant strawman argument. Any argument against almost completely unrestricted access to firearms is a gun ban argument. Gun ownership isn't about you proving you are a responsible person who deserves to have that privilege, it's about you being 18 or 21 and not currently in a database or mental institution. This is literally the position that the RWNJ gun nuts are defending.

LadyPact -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 11:27:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer With a pepper spray (or some other non-lethal means)? These are illegal here in the UK, but not so (much) in countries on the European mainland. For instance, Paris: "It’s unclear whether the police would be able to confiscate your pepper spray if they were to search you, so you run the risk of having it taken away. (I’ve never been searched in all my years in France, and there’s no reason why you should be worried about it. Also, it’s obviously less suspicious to be carrying pepper spray as a 5’1″ woman who weighs 115 lbs soaking wet than if you’re 6’4″ with a linebacker’s build.)" http://www.blog.parisunraveled.com/staying-safe-in-paris-can-i-legally-carry-pepper-spray-in-france/ Just a thought .... OK, so as the person who had the domestic violence (putting myself in the shooter's ex wife's place) perpetrated against them, I get the pepper spray. So far, so good. To continue with the train of thought, that means that my mother should also get the pepper spray because we know the perpetrator was sending his former mother-in-law threatening texts. She also gets the pepper spray. Also makes sense. We'd also better inform the congregation where she attends church to get the pepper spray because we know that Domestic Violence perpetrators will go after their targets wherever they can find them. While we're at it, we'd better get pepper spray for all of the people who work with them, go to school with them, any child care facilities that they might use, where they shop, etc, etc, etc. Or, we could just put the background check system in place so that domestic violence perpetrators can't legally purchase weapons, and follow through on removing weapons they already have at the time of conviction, since we KNOW that people with these types of convictions are dangerous people.

kdsub -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/22/2017 11:36:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Doesn't really matter who isn't enforcing the laws, that's another discussion. The point is they are not enforcing the laws we have, how is passing more going to help anything? No, no, no. Those were not good laws. That's why they weren't enforced. These laws, though, these will be fully enforced. [/sarcasm] DesideriScuri If a law is not working then would it not behoove us to find out why and fix them? Would you not agree that laws governing gun ownership are important and should be consistent throughout the US? I agree the laws are not being enforced and as in my state it is the state governments themselves that refuse to enforce them. It is foolish to say enforce the laws we have when people and governments are not following them. We need laws and if they are not working we need to make changes.... but when obvious changes are proposed special interests come out in opposition. I am speaking of the Republican party and the NRA. Don't complain laws are not being enforced when the party you support blocks all attempts to make needed sensible changes. I would welcome Republican initiatives to strengthen and enforce laws but they NEVER address the issues... they just let the murder and mayhem continue to please the NRA. Butch

WhoreMods -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/22/2017 11:50:54 AM)
I'd certainly be interested to hear how the current lack of laws, and refusal to enforce the few that exist is working very well. If the NRA find the notion of new legislation so offensive, maybe they should make some sort of effort to make their members pay attention to the existing set up. Of course, it's easier to just insist that he feds want to seize all the guns so the laws should be ignored.

LadyPact -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 11:57:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker Oh right, it was because I suggested being a professional sex worker might mean you end up making contact with more less-than-savory people than the average person. How horribly sexist. Everyone who visits a pro is obviously an absolute gem of a human being... every single one of them. Do you assume everybody with a stalker is a professional sex worker? Dang, that would be a really convenient way to excuse any cases that fall into the domestic violence category. Would you like to continue discussing people who obviously shouldn't have guns due to their record or would you like to make a few other ignorant, idiotic assumptions about what people do for a living? ETA - Here's what is really being dealt with about this particular shooting: 1 in 7 women and 1 in 18 men have been stalked by an intimate partner during their lifetime to the point in which they felt very fearful or believed that they or someone close to them would be harmed or killed. The presence of a gun in a domestic violence situation increases the risk of homicide by 500%. 19.3 million women and 5.1 million men in the United States have been stalked in their lifetime.1 60.8% of female stalking victims and 43.5% men reported being stalked by a current or former intimate partner. A study of intimate partner homicides found that 20% of victims were not the intimate partners themselves, but family members, friends, neighbors, persons who intervened, law enforcement responders, or bystanders. Between 2003 and 2008, 142 women were murdered in their workplace by their abuser, 78% of women killed in the workplace during this timeframe. Here's the link for these and other statistics: https://ncadv.org/statistics

PeonForHer -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 12:04:43 PM)
quote: Or, we could just put the background check system in place so that domestic violence perpetrators can't legally purchase weapons, and follow through on removing weapons they already have at the time of conviction, since we KNOW that people with these types of convictions are dangerous people. Certainly that would be a priority and I agree with the general view here that it's outrageous that such people somehow still have firearms. But that doesn't answer your own (implicit) question: Assuming neither defender nor attacker has a gun - 'what do I do, as a not particularly Wonderwoman-ish woman, against a much larger and stronger attacker, should he get aggressive with me?'

BamaD -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 12:05:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods I'm a bit curious as to why the notion of a gun being useful for self defence has any bearing on the latest spree killing in the first place: a pistol and a concealed carry permit or keeping a shotgun in the house are pretty different to the not-really-assault rifles and sub machine guns that are favoured by nutcases out to slaughter a few people for no good reason, unless you're deliberately blurring the lines to suggest that it's impossible to legislate against the latter without also banning the former, which is a pretty blatant strawman argument. Name one, just one recent mass shooting in the U S with a sub machine gun. Valentine's day doesn't count.

WhoreMods -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 12:06:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods I'm a bit curious as to why the notion of a gun being useful for self defence has any bearing on the latest spree killing in the first place: a pistol and a concealed carry permit or keeping a shotgun in the house are pretty different to the not-really-assault rifles and sub machine guns that are favoured by nutcases out to slaughter a few people for no good reason, unless you're deliberately blurring the lines to suggest that it's impossible to legislate against the latter without also banning the former, which is a pretty blatant strawman argument. Name one, just one recent mass shooting in the U S with a sub machine gun. Valentine's day doesn't count. Fred Cowan. And if they don't use machine pistols, are you admitting that AR-15s and Fauxlashnikovs are the whole problem?

BamaD -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/22/2017 12:08:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Doesn't really matter who isn't enforcing the laws, that's another discussion. The point is they are not enforcing the laws we have, how is passing more going to help anything? No, no, no. Those were not good laws. That's why they weren't enforced. These laws, though, these will be fully enforced. [/sarcasm] DesideriScuri If a law is not working then would it not behoove us to find out why and fix them? Would you not agree that laws governing gun ownership are important and should be consistent throughout the US? I agree the laws are not being enforced and as in my state it is the state governments themselves that refuse to enforce them. It is foolish to say enforce the laws we have when people and governments are not following them. We need laws and if they are not working we need to make changes.... but when obvious changes are proposed special interests come out in opposition. I am speaking of the Republican party and the NRA. Don't complain laws are not being enforced when the party you support blocks all attempts to make needed sensible changes. I would welcome Republican initiatives to strengthen and enforce laws but they NEVER address the issues... they just let the murder and mayhem continue to please the NRA. Butch Current laws aren't enforced so we pass new laws which, of course, the same people who don't enforce today' laws will enforce.

kdsub -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/22/2017 12:13:42 PM)
Soooo your solution.... fuck it...who gives a shit...right? Can you not understand how stupid your posts sound? Whatever the reason that gun laws are not being enforced and people are dying lets just ignore it. How about lets finding out why they are not being followed and fix them. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shobooting (11/22/2017 12:14:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Or, we could just put the background check system in place so that domestic violence perpetrators can't legally purchase weapons, and follow through on removing weapons they already have at the time of conviction, since we KNOW that people with these types of convictions are dangerous people. Certainly that would be a priority and I agree with the general view here that it's outrageous that such people somehow still have firearms. But that doesn't answer your own (implicit) question: Assuming neither defender nor attacker has a gun - 'what do I do, as a not particularly Wonderwoman-ish woman, against a much larger and stronger attacker, should he get aggressive with me?' Due to health reasons my right arm and leg are practically useless. The idea that I wouldn't need a weapon when attacked by a man without a gun is just plain stupid.

BamaD -> RE: Another day, another "small" mass shooting (11/22/2017 12:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Soooo your solution.... fuck it...who gives a shit...right? Can you not understand how stupid your posts sound? Whatever the reason that gun laws are not being enforced and people are dying lets just ignore it. How about lets finding out why they are not being followed and fix them. Butch We now the problems and we know how to fix them but you don't want that you want a bunch of unconstitutional laws. Then , of course , since we want to stick with the constitution you pretend we don't want to do anything.

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