quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I'd recommend you put him on hide then. JVoV isn't going to be apologizing, imo. So, you're going to continue to repost and on and on it will go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Who is stalking who.
.....
Jus saying
Im not involved in you stalking jvov.
You take that for yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Then you wrote: "he had created many wedding cakes, and wants to continue doing so."

It's more correct to say he wants to remain in the business of creating wedding cakes, which is a part of the reason why this is a case at all. He's not doing favors for friends, engaging in private enterprise, or failing to fall into a category that doesn't charge sales tax. A business must comply with state law, including the statues regarding discrimination.

quote:

You are falsely equating decorating a cake celebrating a heterosexual wedding with decorating a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding. According to his beliefs, those two things are not the same. Would it be okay to force you to favorably march in a parade supporting an anti-gay message? Favorably march means you are marching in support of the message.

Are we conflating private time with professional (business related) time?

quote:

Do all churches perform homosexual weddings? I've asked before and you never explained why it's okay for a church to not perform a homosexual wedding, even though they perform heterosexual weddings. Your response was to the effect that it was okay since they decline to perform weddings for some heterosexual couples, too. If that's okay, as long as Masterpiece Cakeshop declines to decorate a cake for a heterosexual wedding, it's okay, right?

Obviously, I'm not butch.

My answer, however, would be that we have different standards and practices that are distinguished between not for profit entities and for profit businesses.

quote:

Does it occur to you, that Masterpiece Cakeshop might not have accepted work celebrating every heterosexual wedding it's been offered? I know when I got married, we were lucky in that it was a late summer wedding and not in the prime wedding time, else our 6-month wedding prep would have been 12 months too late.

I find it highly unlikely that the bakery refused service on the basis that they were "too busy". If they could not have accommodated based on business overflow, they would have records to establish the volume of business records stipulating that they couldn't have done the job for anyone, rather than selecting who they would do a custom order for based on religious beliefs. Just like I can't walk into a restaurant, hotel, or club that is already at maximum capacity and claim that I am being discriminated against because I am a woman, rather than being denied access on the basis that the venue is already full.

I haven't read every piece of information regarding this case. However, I tend to think this could have been resolved easily if Master Piece Cake Shop has any record whatsoever of denying any heterosexual couple a comparable product based on religion. If that were the case, any attorney would have had the shop owner put that information right up there to show that this wasn't discrimination. To be honest, I'm quite interested to know how many heterosexual couples could order a custom job that very same day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The gay couple did not pursue a civil suit against the bakery, but took the issue to the State agency that handled this sort of thing. From there, the State took over.

Only if the ACLU is a state agency, now.

Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the actual name of the case. Please stop lying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'd recommend you put him on hide then. JVoV isn't going to be apologizing, imo. So, you're going to continue to repost and on and on it will go.

While I appreciate your suggestion, all that would do is allow it to spew its bullshit, unanswered. No dice.
Michael

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I sincerely hope you'll stop spamming the thread with the oft-repeated post. It's really serving no useful function to anyone but (maybe) you.

Until it (the he-cunt) does the honorable thing, every time it mentions me in a post or responds to me, I will continue to point out its willful misrepresentation and its "lofty goals" with which the thread was started.
I do respect you and your opinion and appreciate you, doing the actual reading, before arriving at a decision, but I intend to treat it (the he-cunt) as it seems to want to treat me.
Peace,
Michael

I'd recommend you put him on hide then. JVoV isn't going to be apologizing, imo. So, you're going to continue to repost and on and on it will go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Then you wrote: "he had created many wedding cakes, and wants to continue doing so."

It's more correct to say he wants to remain in the business of creating wedding cakes, which is a part of the reason why this is a case at all. He's not doing favors for friends, engaging in private enterprise, or failing to fall into a category that doesn't charge sales tax. A business must comply with state law, including the statues regarding discrimination.

quote:

quote:

You are falsely equating decorating a cake celebrating a heterosexual wedding with decorating a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding. According to his beliefs, those two things are not the same. Would it be okay to force you to favorably march in a parade supporting an anti-gay message? Favorably march means you are marching in support of the message.

Are we conflating private time with professional (business related) time?

quote:

quote:

Do all churches perform homosexual weddings? I've asked before and you never explained why it's okay for a church to not perform a homosexual wedding, even though they perform heterosexual weddings. Your response was to the effect that it was okay since they decline to perform weddings for some heterosexual couples, too. If that's okay, as long as Masterpiece Cakeshop declines to decorate a cake for a heterosexual wedding, it's okay, right?

Obviously, I'm not butch.
My answer, however, would be that we have different standards and practices that are distinguished between not for profit entities and for profit businesses.

quote:

quote:

Does it occur to you, that Masterpiece Cakeshop might not have accepted work celebrating every heterosexual wedding it's been offered? I know when I got married, we were lucky in that it was a late summer wedding and not in the prime wedding time, else our 6-month wedding prep would have been 12 months too late.

I find it highly unlikely that the bakery refused service on the basis that they were "too busy". If they could not have accommodated based on business overflow, they would have records to establish the volume of business records stipulating that they couldn't have done the job for anyone, rather than selecting who they would do a custom order for based on religious beliefs. Just like I can't walk into a restaurant, hotel, or club that is already at maximum capacity and claim that I am being discriminated against because I am a woman, rather than being denied access on the basis that the venue is already full.
I haven't read every piece of information regarding this case. However, I tend to think this could have been resolved easily if Master Piece Cake Shop has any record whatsoever of denying any heterosexual couple a comparable product based on religion. If that were the case, any attorney would have had the shop owner put that information right up there to show that this wasn't discrimination. To be honest, I'm quite interested to know how many heterosexual couples could order a custom job that very same day.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Desi, dig deeper. Page 12 of this thread is where you'll find DS's original mention of the ACLU, and my original request for him to stop lying. 6 pages of this bullshit from him.
Note that his post quoted below was edited with additions after I made this post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
The gay couple did not pursue a civil suit against the bakery, but took the issue to the State agency that handled this sort of thing. From there, the State took over.

Only if the ACLU is a state agency, now.

Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the actual name of the case. Please stop lying.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If that were true my friend then some Muslims would feel entitled to throw gays off of roofs...some Christians would feel empowered to stone gays to death... My friend religion rights have limits... the limit is when your religious right denys me my human rights. Are we as Americans going to allow some religions to have privileges that non religious do not have? If you say Christians can deny food to gays but not none religious you are giving special privileges to a Christian sect. Because we are a country of many religions with many beliefs as well and a good portion of agnostics and atheist our Constitution FIRST guarantees our human rights and only then provides that the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Denying food is not free exercising of their religion... Providing a cake is not prohibiting their religion... If it is please show me anywhere in the Bible where it says not to provide food to anyone.
Bottom Line I believe our human right to equality trump religious rights when when the two come in conflict.
Butch

A custom decorated cake is far more than just "food" and you fucking know it. What a disingenuous argument.

Also, you do not have a human right to commission anyone to do custom work for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Are we to award this half ass Christian with no mercy or compassion or forgiveness...
Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If that were true my friend then some Muslims would feel entitled to throw gays off of roofs...some Christians would feel empowered to stone gays to death... My friend religion rights have limits... the limit is when your religious right denys me my human rights. Are we as Americans going to allow some religions to have privileges that non religious do not have? If you say Christians can deny food to gays but not none religious you are giving special privileges to a Christian sect. Because we are a country of many religions with many beliefs as well and a good portion of agnostics and atheist our Constitution FIRST guarantees our human rights and only then provides that the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Denying food is not free exercising of their religion... Providing a cake is not prohibiting their religion... If it is please show me anywhere in the Bible where it says not to provide food to anyone.
Bottom Line I believe our human right to equality trump religious rights when when the two come in conflict.
Butch

A custom decorated cake is far more than just "food" and you fucking know it. What a disingenuous argument.
Also, you do not have a human right to commission anyone to do custom work for you.

No it is not...sheee what is this crap about art...it is no more art than a brick layer or civil engineer or a Denny's chef... and I fucking know it. There is nothing special about a baker compared to any other profession. There are minimum wage teenagers decorating cakes at Schnucks that are the equal of many wedding cakes I have seen in my life.
Worrying about how artistic a cake is not answering to what is important in my post...It is simply a deflection... I would appreciate your thoughts on which rights or most important in an America... not a Christian America... when Religious Rights conflict with Human rights. It happens all the time and as far as I know human rights always win. There are religions and customs whose practices are illegal in this country... why... because they conflict with our human rights.. Are we to award this half ass Christian with no mercy or compassion or forgiveness special rights that others will not have?
Butch

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Who is stalking who.
.....
Jus saying
Im not involved in you stalking jvov.
You take that for yourself.

First of all, it's: "who is stalking whoM"

Then, I guess you would have to define "stalking" as: "someone responding to a post in which they're mentioned or they're being directly responded to, themselves."

Eliminating that wouldn't work out well on a forum, would it?

Find a place where I've done anything other than that with the dishonorable, defamatory, he-cunt and you might have a case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If that were true my friend then some Muslims would feel entitled to throw gays off of roofs...some Christians would feel empowered to stone gays to death... My friend religion rights have limits... the limit is when your religious right denys me my human rights. Are we as Americans going to allow some religions to have privileges that non religious do not have? If you say Christians can deny food to gays but not none religious you are giving special privileges to a Christian sect. Because we are a country of many religions with many beliefs as well and a good portion of agnostics and atheist our Constitution FIRST guarantees our human rights and only then provides that the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Denying food is not free exercising of their religion... Providing a cake is not prohibiting their religion... If it is please show me anywhere in the Bible where it says not to provide food to anyone.
Bottom Line I believe our human right to equality trump religious rights when when the two come in conflict.
Butch

A custom decorated cake is far more than just "food" and you fucking know it. What a disingenuous argument.
Also, you do not have a human right to commission anyone to do custom work for you.

No it is not...sheee what is this crap about art...it is no more art than a brick layer or civil engineer or a Denny's chef... and I fucking know it. There is nothing special about a baker compared to any other profession. There are minimum wage teenagers decorating cakes at Schnucks that are the equal of many wedding cakes I have seen in my life.
Worrying about how artistic a cake is not answering to what is important in my post...It is simply a deflection... I would appreciate your thoughts on which rights or most important in an America... not a Christian America... when Religious Rights conflict with Human rights. It happens all the time and as far as I know human rights always win. There are religions and customs whose practices are illegal in this country... why... because they conflict with our human rights.. Are we to award this half ass Christian with no mercy or compassion or forgiveness special rights that others will not have?
Butch

Really? It's not more than just food? Fuck that. Go to fucking Meijer/Kroger/WalMart and get the $10 cake and use that at a wedding. There's a reason people would go to Masterpiece Cakeshop for wedding cakes. Hint: It's not simply because the cake is delicious.

You do not have a human right to cake, of any sort.

You do not have the right to force someone to do something for you against their will.

If you think you have a human right to food, go to your local grocer and just eat. You'll be thrown out on your ass, or escorted by cops. You do not have the right to food until you pay for it. At that point, your grocer has accepted your offer of payment and the right to that food has been transferred to you. Until then, it's not yours and you have no right to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Desi, dig deeper. Page 12 of this thread is where you'll find DS's original mention of the ACLU, and my original request for him to stop lying. 6 pages of this bullshit from him.
Note that his post quoted below was edited with additions after I made this post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
The gay couple did not pursue a civil suit against the bakery, but took the issue to the State agency that handled this sort of thing. From there, the State took over.

Only if the ACLU is a state agency, now.

Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the actual name of the case. Please stop lying.

As it turns out, you're in the wrong here. The Colorado CRC ruled and there was a lawsuit in front of an Administrative Law Judge. The complainants' lawyers in that case included two ACLU lawyers.

I did plenty of digging. If you think I'm wrong, go dig yourself and prove it.

quote:


Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?