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Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/19/2017 5:23:53 AM   
CodeOfSilence


Posts: 235
Status: offline
As per my yearly or so intrusion into this world, both online and in real life begins anew I come to question it as I always do.
So here I am to bounce a few ideas with you.

Recently I read an article that no longer exists in it's original form but can be found here in a bit less than easy format to read with some interjections from the author: https://rolequeer.tumblr.com/post/110002937282/submissive-people-dont-need-dominants-period

It's a very deconstructionist, post modernist, obviously queer tilted look on the thing. Regardless it blew my mind.
Essentially it calls out the culture of BDSM (especially the old guard) of being normative, and of people fetishising this norm.
But more interestingly it presents this norm as a form of brainwashing, from a personal experience, leaving no avenues other than its fetishistic ideal.

As per my morality I've come to regard permanent D/s relationships that formalize the fantasy into a lifestyle as harmful for the psyche and development of a free individual. As in if the goal is to keep the submissive in a submissive state, through perpetual teasing, denial, emotional control, punishment and reward dynamics, etc. Whether or not consensual matters not in this sense. To take an extreme example someone who wants someone to eat a part of them or amputate a part of them may want that without any direct force being applied but they will still remain destroyed as a result of this. From an anarchist perspective there needs to be a break with the fantasy for normal individuality and free will to grow (more here: https://stavvers.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/anarchism-bdsm-consensual-powe/)

But moving on...So the blogger here then proposes an alternative which is a relationship between two submissives.
I've never thought about this. But to me the purity and goodness of this seems almost divine.

What I'm talking about here is the state of mind that exists between the two persons. Oh god this is a complicated question. Most people that seek a permanent D/s relationship of some sort want a person that has a servile mindset. But a servile mindset would not need any additional force to perform and act in a submissive manner. Yet supposedly many dominants want to impose restrictions, punishments and checklists of demands upon the submissive so as to keep them in that state of mind.

Now I wonder what would happen if two truly submissive people (disregarding any S/M dynamic which imo is at least somewhat separate) would find each other and endeavor to please one and other as much as possible. Indulge in one and others desires, needs and aspirations. Mutual assistance at its finest, sexual and otherwise.

I've not spoken to such a couple yet and I do wonder if they exist. But by god I would want to hear your opinions on this and especially anyone who has experienced such a relationship.


What I am thinking though is that this may just be a normal vanilla relationship between two empaths with a hedonistic streak and the reason of why it is not included in any BDSM analogy is because it simply does not belong here. But if that's true then it would suggest that submissives involved in BDSM have unresolved issues requiring stimuli that is not submissive or servile in nature but indeed demanding. Giving credence to the idea that the submissive indeed is the one (at least partially) in control in any relationship where she or he is not completely broken.


Do discuss! I'm sorry if I don't make too much sense here. These are somewhat new concepts for me too.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/19/2017 2:43:35 PM   
kiwisub22


Posts: 450
Joined: 7/16/2016
Status: offline
As a submissive, i would not get pleasure/fulfillment/joy out of "serving" someone who wasn't a dominant. And actually if a submissive tried to serve me, it would make me deeply uncomfortable since i would be in an unfamiliar role. I can do the one-off being served a drink or dinner, but as part of everyday wouldn't do it for me.

Part of my submissive nature is knowing that my dominant got pleasure and happiness from me being what i am. No pleasure there would mean my needs weren't being met, and neither are the needs of the other submissive.

As for the idea that the submissive is (at least partly ) in control of a BDSM relationship- sure, but so is the dominant. In any relationship there has to be equal parity with power. I give my power to the dominant, and they take it from me. We both get what we want, how we want it. Either has the ability to pull out of the relationship if needs aren't met, so fundamentally, each has equal power.

(in reply to CodeOfSilence)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/19/2017 6:07:42 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
My experience was that I need someone who understands me. My vanilla ex took advantage of my need to please and looked down on me for doing it at the same time.

Being with a dominant who is a good person means he doesn’t take advantage of me. Instead part of what he does is make sure I’m not taken advantage of. That matters.

It’s important to him that he doesn’t break his toys.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to kiwisub22)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/19/2017 6:11:40 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
Does a dominant need a submissive?

Same fucking answer.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/19/2017 9:51:19 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence

As per my yearly or so intrusion into this world, both online and in real life begins anew I come to question it as I always do.
So here I am to bounce a few ideas with you.

Recently I read an article that no longer exists in it's original form but can be found here in a bit less than easy format to read with some interjections from the author: https://rolequeer.tumblr.com/post/110002937282/submissive-people-dont-need-dominants-period

It's a very deconstructionist, post modernist, obviously queer tilted look on the thing. Regardless it blew my mind.
Essentially it calls out the culture of BDSM (especially the old guard) of being normative, and of people fetishising this norm.
But more interestingly it presents this norm as a form of brainwashing, from a personal experience, leaving no avenues other than its fetishistic ideal.

As per my morality I've come to regard permanent D/s relationships that formalize the fantasy into a lifestyle as harmful for the psyche and development of a free individual. As in if the goal is to keep the submissive in a submissive state, through perpetual teasing, denial, emotional control, punishment and reward dynamics, etc. Whether or not consensual matters not in this sense. To take an extreme example someone who wants someone to eat a part of them or amputate a part of them may want that without any direct force being applied but they will still remain destroyed as a result of this. From an anarchist perspective there needs to be a break with the fantasy for normal individuality and free will to grow (more here: https://stavvers.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/anarchism-bdsm-consensual-powe/)

But moving on...So the blogger here then proposes an alternative which is a relationship between two submissives.
I've never thought about this. But to me the purity and goodness of this seems almost divine.

What I'm talking about here is the state of mind that exists between the two persons. Oh god this is a complicated question. Most people that seek a permanent D/s relationship of some sort want a person that has a servile mindset. But a servile mindset would not need any additional force to perform and act in a submissive manner. Yet supposedly many dominants want to impose restrictions, punishments and checklists of demands upon the submissive so as to keep them in that state of mind.

Now I wonder what would happen if two truly submissive people (disregarding any S/M dynamic which imo is at least somewhat separate) would find each other and endeavor to please one and other as much as possible. Indulge in one and others desires, needs and aspirations. Mutual assistance at its finest, sexual and otherwise.

I've not spoken to such a couple yet and I do wonder if they exist. But by god I would want to hear your opinions on this and especially anyone who has experienced such a relationship.


What I am thinking though is that this may just be a normal vanilla relationship between two empaths with a hedonistic streak and the reason of why it is not included in any BDSM analogy is because it simply does not belong here. But if that's true then it would suggest that submissives involved in BDSM have unresolved issues requiring stimuli that is not submissive or servile in nature but indeed demanding. Giving credence to the idea that the submissive indeed is the one (at least partially) in control in any relationship where she or he is not completely broken.


Do discuss! I'm sorry if I don't make too much sense here. These are somewhat new concepts for me too.


A submissive's energy battery is charged from the power of the dominant. While two submissive people can have a mutually beneficial relationship whereby they help to sustain each other for a given period of time, ultimately the submissive's battery is 'turned on' and 'charged' by dominant energy.

(in reply to CodeOfSilence)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/20/2017 3:55:02 PM   
LTE


Posts: 461
Joined: 1/17/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Does a dominant need a submissive?




For what?

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/20/2017 5:14:47 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTE


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Does a dominant need a submissive?




For what?



Dominants become stronger by having a someone to exert their dominance over.

(in reply to LTE)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/20/2017 9:51:43 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
What a pretentious fucking douchefestival.
I get being like this for movies and books and music... but for sex?

Why would anyone even put so much effort into categorizing the manner in which other people want to have sex/a relationship/etc.?

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/20/2017 10:59:53 PM   
CodeOfSilence


Posts: 235
Status: offline
Shit like this interests me. It's absolutely fascinating for me to learn how people work, what makes us all tick.
To know each other is to accept each other. To tolerate each other is to ignore each other.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/20/2017 11:34:05 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence

Shit like this interests me. It's absolutely fascinating for me to learn how people work, what makes us all tick.
To know each other is to accept each other. To tolerate each other is to ignore each other.


You can't know anyone by being this reductive.
I get that the novelty of such constructs has an appeal to the painfully insecure, but taking this shit seriously is a bad idea.

He reminds me of the people who actually make me agree with RWNJs when they say the SJWs and feminists and gender theorists have gone too far.
He deserves to be ignored... there are too many people in the world for me to actually care about someone who wants to think of himself as a rolequeer transsubmissive metadominant who prefers submissives.

Idiots like this may be desperate to lock themselves into clearly defined categories, but normal people know it's mental masturbation and a colossal waste of time.
Taking it seriously is bad for your brain.

(in reply to CodeOfSilence)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 1:15:14 AM   
CodeOfSilence


Posts: 235
Status: offline
Dude I'm anything but insecure. I've been around the block a few times and around a couple of corners of the earth too.

if you're talking about the person doing the blog, then yeah sure, though not necessarily. This is a rehash from an other article so it's been chewed out and spit out. But I still thought it made some sense.


Concerning the SJW diatribe~ A lot of people today make a lot of money advising others on what makes people tick. Entire shows are made today not because the writing blows our mind or because the plot would make us twist and turn in anticipation but because various characters and reactions are purposefully designed to elicit responses and spark the interest of certain groups.


So it has a bad and a good side to it. But mostly I think it's interesting . And if anything this includes sex. Especially sex that is not even just sex but in of itself a lifestyle and powerplay.

< Message edited by CodeOfSilence -- 12/21/2017 1:40:04 AM >

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 6:45:28 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
Alright... well, you're actually being admirably civil here, so I guess I could formulate a response.

So I guess that the basic premise here is that submissives don't even need dominants to submit, because it's the mindset that counts the most.
So do they even need another person at all?

If you can submit to another submissive, then I guess you can also submit to yourself, right?
I can have a servile attitude towards an inanimate object, right?

(in reply to CodeOfSilence)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 9:36:06 AM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Alright... well, you're actually being admirably civil here, so I guess I could formulate a response.

So I guess that the basic premise here is that submissives don't even need dominants to submit, because it's the mindset that counts the most.
So do they even need another person at all?

If you can submit to another submissive, then I guess you can also submit to yourself, right?
I can have a servile attitude towards an inanimate object, right?


You submit to yourself by allowing yourself to submit to someone else.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 10:06:21 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32561
Status: offline
When people bring this kind of thing up, my first thought is generally that they don't know enough people.

Yes, there are definitely s/s couples out there, though I do agree with the article that you don't see as many s/s couples as D/D ones. Of course, that leads to the difference between actual s/s couples, rather than those couples who will service top each other vrs those that are actually switch/sub couples (those who spend periods of time where one will take the Dominant role for the other) and switch/switch couples (those that take turns taking the Dominant role for each other).

Some of this really depends on the people. If neither partner is interested in topping or Dominating the other, there is always the outlet of poly *if* the BDSM/kink/D/s thing is high enough on the priority scale, though some don't find the idea of a primary relationship that automatically necessitates a third party to be fulfilling. If those things are on the lower end of the scale, they tend to be more interested in the other aspects of life with a fulfilling partner, and the kink part isn't that big of a deal.

However, I do have to say that, of the s/s couples I've encountered, most of them didn't set out to be s/s couples. They were people who got into kink after the relationship had formed or they are in arrangements that were specifically not what they were seeking originally. I don't currently know any submissive women that are specifically seeking submissive men, though some submissive men think this is a great idea for submissive women to get their wants met. (The trading off idea.) There are also some submissive/bottom men that think teaming up with a submissive woman to be able to offer themselves as a 'submissive couple' will bring them better results. Usually, the submissive woman will find a poly situation long before the submissive man, and the Dominant or D/D couple will be only interested in the woman of the couple.





_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 10:24:20 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
I can have a servile attitude towards an inanimate object, right?

My water heater kicked my ass just a few weeks ago. I ended up dumping that Service Top and replaced it with one which actually served its purpose.

To me a rose by any other name still needs to be tossed out because, you know .. allergies and what not.. so I prefer the power of the thorns because volunteer work may feed my humanity but my inner beastie requires the payment of power to be fed.





_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 11:02:10 AM   
DocStrange


Posts: 1076
Joined: 6/10/2015
Status: offline
Said like a true Vulcan! :)

_____________________________

Master of the Mystic Arts
Proprieter Verließ Von Strange
Rubber Fetishist
SciFi Fanatic

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 12:29:24 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange

Said like a true Vulcan! :)


If I had just one dilithium crystal my happiness would know no bounds.

Alas, my reality is Earth-bound and muggle born. Sex changes are possibilities but for Cardies, Blueskins and the like..I need Michael Westmore. I am thankful for those rare Klingon moments. (They are like Calgon moments but with more weapons and maybe, probably, more blood.)

IDIC, dude, seems appropriate for this time. llap

P.S. Um..just asking here but..you wouldn’t know where I could get my hands on some trilithium? Kooks with nukes and what not .. stuff like that could come in handy.

😉











_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DocStrange)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 2:03:36 PM   
DocStrange


Posts: 1076
Joined: 6/10/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange

Said like a true Vulcan! :)


If I had just one dilithium crystal my happiness would know no bounds.

Alas, my reality is Earth-bound and muggle born. Sex changes are possibilities but for Cardies, Blueskins and the like..I need Michael Westmore. I am thankful for those rare Klingon moments. (They are like Calgon moments but with more weapons and maybe, probably, more blood.)

IDIC, dude, seems appropriate for this time. llap

P.S. Um..just asking here but..you wouldn’t know where I could get my hands on some trilithium? Kooks with nukes and what not .. stuff like that could come in handy.

😉


I am fresh out of trilithium. Somehow Dr Soran intercepted my only supply :(

I would be happy to have a replicator though. I love the thought of being able to instantly create any rubber outfit my mind could conceive. Oh what a rush that would be :)

_____________________________

Master of the Mystic Arts
Proprieter Verließ Von Strange
Rubber Fetishist
SciFi Fanatic

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 3:17:53 PM   
Masteryoungsir21


Posts: 25
Joined: 3/20/2015
Status: offline
Adult Dating - click here!

(in reply to DocStrange)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Does a submissive need a dominant? - 12/21/2017 6:27:57 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
FR

I speak for myself and I need someone who I identify as an alpha. If he is a man who is switch and have submitted to another woman. He would bring out my alpha side, which will instantly make me unattracted to him. I will not submit to a man who have submitted to another woman. Because once I know another female has dominated him. I feel like, I will easily be able to dominate him too. Basically, the respect won't be there for him to dom me, I will just have no respect for him as a dominant and see him as a sub.

So yes, I need a dominant. Not a switch.

It always puzzles me why I always got men who identify as submissive PMing me that, they will be great dominants because they have experience the sub side, and they been feeling desire to try the other side.

But it's like...., it's just curiousity. Not a real like innate natural dominant. Which is not what I am attracted to.

(in reply to Masteryoungsir21)
Profile   Post #: 20
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