vincentML -> RE: Science event of the year (12/28/2017 10:57:29 AM)
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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote:
ORIGINAL: vincentML quote:
ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote:
ORIGINAL: kdsub We are now profiting from them... and they us. Despite all the political rhetoric on the subject their usefulness in the dominant society will determine their position in the US not the Republican Party. In my opinion anyway for what it is worth. Butch All true. It's been really funny watching the Republican approach to illegal Mexes switch from a sort of tacit acceptance that using them to undercut is illegal and unethical, but is still a good way to keep a business's running costs lower than they could be if they were employing citizens who get the minimum wage, to wall building ranting and vilification of the whole population of Mexico. Of course, that's Obama's fault for actually doing his job and deporting a few illegals, rather than the current tangerine bawbag having any responsibility for it. (My point about the redskins, btw, is not about land rights due to seniority or any such, just that I find calling people who were there before any of the colonies that went on to become America were even founded "American" anything seems a bit off.) In the meantime however attempts were made to "integrate" the "natives" into American mainstream. The Cherokees had their copy government and boys were sent to the Carlysle School. there were a number of visits between the native chiefs and the white government, and treaties. So, it is not like the Indians were actually divorced from the evolving scene. I think you can make the case they were de facto Americans while being over-run. Or that they were forcibly assimilated at gunpoint, depending on your perspective. Doesn't alter the fact that they predated America, though. [;)] I think you open the way to an interesting thought experiment. The new world aborigines were physically present before the Europeans but if they came from the West they were Asians in origin before there was a known difference. The Asians were here but where was here? They journeyed a long while to meet the Europeans in the East. All that while we can assume the Asians were still in Asia for all they knew and before they had any decent gas station road maps. The Europeans for their part were just as ignorant of the origins of the Asians. But, the Euros fished for cod a good five centuries before their awareness of the Indio-asians was fixed (admittedly, my guess) Other than the boats bobbing off the coast what evidence did the Asians have that the Europeans were new arrivals? How is it the Indians perceived themselves to be "first?" and what did first mean? I have in mind that the perception of who was "first comer" formed long after the fact of the first meeting**. Well, it had to, right? For the Indians anyway, because it was only the Euros who believed the self-congratulatory story they had been out searching for something. So, agreed with you the Indians were just tending to their scattered gardens and hunting grounds when they came upon these bands of bewildered, wide-eyed "settlers." But did that give either group a sense of owning the land? The Indians did predate America. You are right. But then, so did the Settlers. The Mormons of course solved the problem by claiming the Indians were really Jews. I'm not sure what my point is here other than the line of awareness was not so cleanly drawn in time and space. I suspect the Settlers were just caught up without much thought or knowledge on the migrations that had begun in Africa and split eastward and westward across the Asian Steppes. We believe that shit now. But they were probably ignorant of it all. Destiny was more mundane and parochial. It is only in hindsight that the difference arrived between the two tides of re-uniting humanity. Lots of irony there, I think. You can tell this is a lazy holiday afternoon for me, can't you? **Afterthought: the first meeting probably arose from a Hollywood Studio script since we are told simultaneously that many piss-soiled French men were already here seeking furs and screwing Indian maidens before Columbus passed his first gas.
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