RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem

RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 7:38:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Someone please tell me, where is all this space for embassies and consuls is gonna come from ..... in Jerusalem" what land is going to be used? Urban renewal

heavyblinker -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 8:00:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker LOL... the majority of world leaders openly condemned Trump's incompetence, but now because Guatemala has decided to jeopardize their international reputation as a drug lab and join Trump. suddenly the rest of the world is going to move their embassies as well. I'm posing a question, not making a prediction. Yes, but your comrades predictably went there. It doesn't matter what Guatemala does-- they know they aren't a target for terrorists and they had absolutely nothing to lose by giving into Trump's mafia posturing. Trump likes to divide people-- it's what he does... but at the moment it is still very much the incompetent moron versus the rest of the world.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 8:18:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 The peace process has been stalled for many years now, with no hope of restarting it under the current Israeli PM. Israel can try again when Bibi calls for elections (probably 2019) to get some competent leadership. I hope Tzivi Lipni runs again as leader of Zionist Union. They have 24 seats in the Knesset now. What our President has just done, is disqualify the US as a broker in this deal. The world increasingly is seeing the US as irrelevant under this administration, and this is just another example It will take the next President years to repair this mess. Hold on a sec... why the fuck does the US have to have any hand in "brokering in" any peace deal there? How about this 'hand': Everyone leave Israel alone or we'll come to it's aid. Israel, stick to your borders and stop poking the bear; if you don't, we'll let you get your comeuppance, but we'll make sure you're not destroyed. We're big enough, and strong enough to follow through with both parts of that "deal." The borders have been set by the UN. Any Israeli settlements outside of those borders are not Israeli territory and Israel has no real right to defend those territories. Israeli foreign policy might decide it has the authority to "rescue" Israeli citizens outside of Israel, but the rules of the land outside of Israel are not up to Israel to decide. There will have to be a 3-state solution, not a 2-state. Whoever the fuck thinks that the Giza Strip, completely separated from the rest of Palestinian lands, is going to be part of Palestine, is fucked in the head. 3 States: Israel, "Giza," and "Palestine." The quotation marks around the two are only there to signify what they are called currently, with acknowledgement that they will get to decide what they are called themselves All 3 states get to decide their own policies, separate from each other. If elections put Hamas in power in Giza, as the State government, then whoever is leading Hamas will be the leader of "Giza." Same with "Palestine" and Israel. Israel decide (in 1980) that it's portion of Jerusalem is it's capital. Who is allowed to change that, other than Israel and the Israelis?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 8:21:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Maybe he will be the last US president. think on that!!! LOL I know you're just poking fun, but how would that happen? You think he's going to lead a coup and get rid of the US Constitution and wrest control? I assure you that won't be happening. I highly doubt our military would allow that, and, without the military, it ain't happening. Unless there is WWIII and it's an all-out nuke war, no one is going to destroy the US and take it over. And, if there is a WWIII and an all-out nuke war, there won't be anything left of anywhere (mutually assured destruction several times over for Earth), so not point in pondering it anyhow.

BoscoX -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 8:35:00 AM)
Let me guess, this is the same peaceful new leader who is calling for days of rage and blood and violence and is launching missiles into civilian areas because we are planning on building an embassy in Jerusalem. Right?

heavyblinker -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 9:12:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Maybe he will be the last US president. think on that!!! LOL I know you're just poking fun, but how would that happen? I would say a series of 9/11 scale attacks. The first would see a return to the creeping fascism of the Bush era, but of course made worse by the already present racism, sexism, alt-rightism. The second, coming a year or so later, would take it even further... Bannon's 'holy war' versus all of Islam would be a given. After the third, fourth, fifth, etc... pretty much everyone would be looking for a solution, and their desperation would lead them straight into the arms of the wannabe strongman, whose already openly stated willingness to commit atrocities and genocides would suddenly hold a lot of appeal.

JVoV -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 9:29:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker LOL... the majority of world leaders openly condemned Trump's incompetence, but now because Guatemala has decided to jeopardize their international reputation as a drug lab and join Trump. suddenly the rest of the world is going to move their embassies as well. It gives us street cred.

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 9:35:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 The peace process has been stalled for many years now, with no hope of restarting it under the current Israeli PM. Israel can try again when Bibi calls for elections (probably 2019) to get some competent leadership. I hope Tzivi Lipni runs again as leader of Zionist Union. They have 24 seats in the Knesset now. What our President has just done, is disqualify the US as a broker in this deal. The world increasingly is seeing the US as irrelevant under this administration, and this is just another example It will take the next President years to repair this mess. Hold on a sec... why the fuck does the US have to have any hand in "brokering in" any peace deal there? How about this 'hand': Everyone leave Israel alone or we'll come to it's aid. Israel, stick to your borders and stop poking the bear; if you don't, we'll let you get your comeuppance, but we'll make sure you're not destroyed. We're big enough, and strong enough to follow through with both parts of that "deal." The borders have been set by the UN. Any Israeli settlements outside of those borders are not Israeli territory and Israel has no real right to defend those territories. Israeli foreign policy might decide it has the authority to "rescue" Israeli citizens outside of Israel, but the rules of the land outside of Israel are not up to Israel to decide. There will have to be a 3-state solution, not a 2-state. Whoever the fuck thinks that the Giza Strip, completely separated from the rest of Palestinian lands, is going to be part of Palestine, is fucked in the head. 3 States: Israel, "Giza," and "Palestine." The quotation marks around the two are only there to signify what they are called currently, with acknowledgement that they will get to decide what they are called themselves All 3 states get to decide their own policies, separate from each other. If elections put Hamas in power in Giza, as the State government, then whoever is leading Hamas will be the leader of "Giza." Same with "Palestine" and Israel. Israel decide (in 1980) that it's portion of Jerusalem is it's capital. Who is allowed to change that, other than Israel and the Israelis? ok... Lots to unpack. First of all... Yes I agree. The unspoken "3rd state". What to do about Gaza. If there were ever to be a 2-state solution with Israel and the West Bank, Hamas would be isolated and would disintegrate (IMO) in Gaza, but they have been, and will continue to be elected there. As for all of these people who, in your estimation, have been the recipient of cranial intercourse, that would be every Arab in the region. But, yes, theoretically, Gaza could be a 3rd state, run by a terrorist organization. NOW... As for the UN borders.... Israel has expanded well beyond them dozens of times in all directions (except for West (that whole Mediterranean Sea thing)). To be fair, in some instances they seized land when they were attacked (e.g. Golan Heights, Gaza (Syria, and Egypt respectively)). In other instances (e.g. the West Bank), they just built homes and claimed the land. There is no way Israel will ever go back to the 1947 UN borders, even under a competent government. There is no way the US will ever enforce any rules on Israel, so long as politicians here have AIPAC in their pockets, and of course the current administration in Israel has gone even farther, by meddling in US politics, and appearing on Hannity. (That was painful to see)

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 10:12:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Maybe he will be the last US president. think on that!!! LOL I know you're just poking fun, but how would that happen? I would say a series of 9/11 scale attacks. The first would see a return to the creeping fascism of the Bush era, but of course made worse by the already present racism, sexism, alt-rightism. The second, coming a year or so later, would take it even further... Bannon's 'holy war' versus all of Islam would be a given. After the third, fourth, fifth, etc... pretty much everyone would be looking for a solution, and their desperation would lead them straight into the arms of the wannabe strongman, whose already openly stated willingness to commit atrocities and genocides would suddenly hold a lot of appeal. You have an incredibly shitty view of US citizens. Won't happen.

heavyblinker -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 10:31:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Maybe he will be the last US president. think on that!!! LOL I know you're just poking fun, but how would that happen? I would say a series of 9/11 scale attacks. The first would see a return to the creeping fascism of the Bush era, but of course made worse by the already present racism, sexism, alt-rightism. The second, coming a year or so later, would take it even further... Bannon's 'holy war' versus all of Islam would be a given. After the third, fourth, fifth, etc... pretty much everyone would be looking for a solution, and their desperation would lead them straight into the arms of the wannabe strongman, whose already openly stated willingness to commit atrocities and genocides would suddenly hold a lot of appeal. You have an incredibly shitty view of US citizens. Won't happen. How could you possibly think that a country willing to make TRUMP its leader is incapable of turning to fascism?? There wasn't even an actual crisis and they fell for his strongman bullshit... so in the aftermath of a real crisis they would suddenly become rational? FOX news would go into overdrive-- Hannity, Gutfeld, FOX and friends... would be openly calling for mass murder and genocide (oh sorry, I mean 'war'). The economic fallout alone would be enough to make most Americans lose their heads. Bosco would love it.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 10:36:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 The peace process has been stalled for many years now, with no hope of restarting it under the current Israeli PM. Israel can try again when Bibi calls for elections (probably 2019) to get some competent leadership. I hope Tzivi Lipni runs again as leader of Zionist Union. They have 24 seats in the Knesset now. What our President has just done, is disqualify the US as a broker in this deal. The world increasingly is seeing the US as irrelevant under this administration, and this is just another example It will take the next President years to repair this mess. Hold on a sec... why the fuck does the US have to have any hand in "brokering in" any peace deal there? How about this 'hand': Everyone leave Israel alone or we'll come to it's aid. Israel, stick to your borders and stop poking the bear; if you don't, we'll let you get your comeuppance, but we'll make sure you're not destroyed. We're big enough, and strong enough to follow through with both parts of that "deal." The borders have been set by the UN. Any Israeli settlements outside of those borders are not Israeli territory and Israel has no real right to defend those territories. Israeli foreign policy might decide it has the authority to "rescue" Israeli citizens outside of Israel, but the rules of the land outside of Israel are not up to Israel to decide. There will have to be a 3-state solution, not a 2-state. Whoever the fuck thinks that the Giza Strip, completely separated from the rest of Palestinian lands, is going to be part of Palestine, is fucked in the head. 3 States: Israel, "Giza," and "Palestine." The quotation marks around the two are only there to signify what they are called currently, with acknowledgement that they will get to decide what they are called themselves All 3 states get to decide their own policies, separate from each other. If elections put Hamas in power in Giza, as the State government, then whoever is leading Hamas will be the leader of "Giza." Same with "Palestine" and Israel. Israel decide (in 1980) that it's portion of Jerusalem is it's capital. Who is allowed to change that, other than Israel and the Israelis? ok... Lots to unpack. First of all... Yes I agree. The unspoken "3rd state". What to do about Gaza. If there were ever to be a 2-state solution with Israel and the West Bank, Hamas would be isolated and would disintegrate (IMO) in Gaza, but they have been, and will continue to be elected there. As for all of these people who, in your estimation, have been the recipient of cranial intercourse, that would be every Arab in the region. But, yes, theoretically, Gaza could be a 3rd state, run by a terrorist organization. Fuuuuck! I forgot about the Golan Heights. Soooo, 4 state approach, since there are 4 distinct territories? "Gaza," "Palestine," the "Golan Heights," and Israel. From what I understand, there are two "arms" of Hamas; one that governs, one that fights. Whether or not that's true, I can't say for sure. But, Hamas has already been elected to govern Gaza, hasn't it? quote: NOW... As for the UN borders.... Israel has expanded well beyond them dozens of times in all directions (except for West (that whole Mediterranean Sea thing)). To be fair, in some instances they seized land when they were attacked (e.g. Golan Heights, Gaza (Syria, and Egypt respectively)). In other instances (e.g. the West Bank), they just built homes and claimed the land. There is no way Israel will ever go back to the 1947 UN borders, even under a competent government. The 1947 borders didn't include Jerusalem, but the 1949 Armistice Line essentially granted West Jerusalem to Israel. That's where the borders "should be," imo. quote: There is no way the US will ever enforce any rules on Israel, so long as politicians here have AIPAC in their pockets, and of course the current administration in Israel has gone even farther, by meddling in US politics, and appearing on Hannity. (That was painful to see) You watch more Hannity than I do. lol That being said, why is it international government officials can't be on US news/opinion shows? Your comment about AIPAC isn't disagreed on, but I would also have to add that, in general, Congress and the President are too bought, which is a consistent critique and complaint of mine.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 10:38:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker How could you possibly think that a country willing to make TRUMP its leader is incapable of turning to fascism?? There wasn't even an actual crisis and they fell for his strongman bullshit... so in the aftermath of a real crisis they would suddenly become rational? I do believe more people would be involved and we do now have some evidence of what Trump at the helm would look like. Didn't have that last year.

heavyblinker -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 11:07:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker How could you possibly think that a country willing to make TRUMP its leader is incapable of turning to fascism?? There wasn't even an actual crisis and they fell for his strongman bullshit... so in the aftermath of a real crisis they would suddenly become rational? I do believe more people would be involved and we do now have some evidence of what Trump at the helm would look like. Didn't have that last year. It doesn't matter. They should have seen through him in 2016 (and 2015) and didn't. I think stupidity played a major role, but more than that, it was desperation. The stupidity isn't going away and I really don't think it would take much to bring people back to that same sense of desperation and helplessness... especially if it became real. FOX, townhall, Breitbart would lead the fascism brigade and start advocating extreme measures, and the MSM wouldn't be able to avoid reporting on the issue either. There would be another swell of patriotism, and this time instead of Bush calling for unity and warning people not to give into racism, it would be Trump fanning the flames of hate and division. Imagine what a Trump-style patriot act would involve. I don't think he would suddenly become the political genius and true leader that he is clearly incapable of becoming, but I do think that his madness would garner more support.

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Guatemala says it is moving embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (12/25/2017 11:50:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 The peace process has been stalled for many years now, with no hope of restarting it under the current Israeli PM. Israel can try again when Bibi calls for elections (probably 2019) to get some competent leadership. I hope Tzivi Lipni runs again as leader of Zionist Union. They have 24 seats in the Knesset now. What our President has just done, is disqualify the US as a broker in this deal. The world increasingly is seeing the US as irrelevant under this administration, and this is just another example It will take the next President years to repair this mess. Hold on a sec... why the fuck does the US have to have any hand in "brokering in" any peace deal there? How about this 'hand': Everyone leave Israel alone or we'll come to it's aid. Israel, stick to your borders and stop poking the bear; if you don't, we'll let you get your comeuppance, but we'll make sure you're not destroyed. We're big enough, and strong enough to follow through with both parts of that "deal." The borders have been set by the UN. Any Israeli settlements outside of those borders are not Israeli territory and Israel has no real right to defend those territories. Israeli foreign policy might decide it has the authority to "rescue" Israeli citizens outside of Israel, but the rules of the land outside of Israel are not up to Israel to decide. There will have to be a 3-state solution, not a 2-state. Whoever the fuck thinks that the Giza Strip, completely separated from the rest of Palestinian lands, is going to be part of Palestine, is fucked in the head. 3 States: Israel, "Giza," and "Palestine." The quotation marks around the two are only there to signify what they are called currently, with acknowledgement that they will get to decide what they are called themselves All 3 states get to decide their own policies, separate from each other. If elections put Hamas in power in Giza, as the State government, then whoever is leading Hamas will be the leader of "Giza." Same with "Palestine" and Israel. Israel decide (in 1980) that it's portion of Jerusalem is it's capital. Who is allowed to change that, other than Israel and the Israelis? ok... Lots to unpack. First of all... Yes I agree. The unspoken "3rd state". What to do about Gaza. If there were ever to be a 2-state solution with Israel and the West Bank, Hamas would be isolated and would disintegrate (IMO) in Gaza, but they have been, and will continue to be elected there. As for all of these people who, in your estimation, have been the recipient of cranial intercourse, that would be every Arab in the region. But, yes, theoretically, Gaza could be a 3rd state, run by a terrorist organization. Fuuuuck! I forgot about the Golan Heights. Soooo, 4 state approach, since there are 4 distinct territories? "Gaza," "Palestine," the "Golan Heights," and Israel. From what I understand, there are two "arms" of Hamas; one that governs, one that fights. Whether or not that's true, I can't say for sure. But, Hamas has already been elected to govern Gaza, hasn't it? quote: NOW... As for the UN borders.... Israel has expanded well beyond them dozens of times in all directions (except for West (that whole Mediterranean Sea thing)). To be fair, in some instances they seized land when they were attacked (e.g. Golan Heights, Gaza (Syria, and Egypt respectively)). In other instances (e.g. the West Bank), they just built homes and claimed the land. There is no way Israel will ever go back to the 1947 UN borders, even under a competent government. The 1947 borders didn't include Jerusalem, but the 1949 Armistice Line essentially granted West Jerusalem to Israel. That's where the borders "should be," imo. quote: There is no way the US will ever enforce any rules on Israel, so long as politicians here have AIPAC in their pockets, and of course the current administration in Israel has gone even farther, by meddling in US politics, and appearing on Hannity. (That was painful to see) You watch more Hannity than I do. lol That being said, why is it international government officials can't be on US news/opinion shows? Your comment about AIPAC isn't disagreed on, but I would also have to add that, in general, Congress and the President are too bought, which is a consistent critique and complaint of mine. ok... Golan Heights is not Palestinian territory. It was Syrian territory, until the Syrians decided to launch an attack from there in the six day war. It is not a DISTINCT territory. And yes... I watch a lot of Hannity. He is entertaining. I like to see what the next talking points are in right wing world. Hannity is the poster child for the dumbing down of America. Watching him, is like looking at a supermarket tabloid, but with even LESS facts. Frankly BoscoX is a better Hannity than Hannity. Government officials can certainly be on U.S. shows. However, their purpose should not be to meddle in US politics. Also, as a side note note... Being Jewish... We have a saying... "A Yiddishe Kup" Which is Yiddish (not Hebrew) for a Jewish head. Yes, sort of a conceited way of saying that we Jews are known for our sharp minds. Seeing the Prime Minister of Israel, appearing on such a dumbed down tabloid show, is sad.

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