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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 9:44:19 AM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

In the real world, W was so extremely tough on rogue nations developing WMDs that little ninny leftist snowflakes like you cried all the time



Really? Do you REALLY believe that? Honest question.

Despite well-documented evidence to the contrary?

That isn't even up for debate. Iran's and North Korea's nuclear capability's flourished during the Bush Administration. If by "extremely tough", you mean allow, enable, and even assist rogue nations in increasing their nuclear capacity, then yes, he was "extremely tough".

Do you want to count the number of Iranian centrifuges before and after Bush? Numerous links have been provided in the past.


From the link I posted a couple times:

Mr. Bush’s responsibility for the disaster now unfolding is twofold: He failed to target Iran a decade ago, and created a climate that made it very difficult to target Iran today. The Bush administration didn’t initiate a political-economic siege on Iran when it was weak, and Mr. Bush weakened America by exhausting its economic power and military might in a futile war. By the time American resolve was needed to fend off a genuine global threat, the necessary determination was no longer there. It had been wasted on the wrong cause.

The correct way to confront the Iranian threat would have been to establish a broad coalition including Russia, the European Union, Sunni Arab countries, Israel and the United States (BTW (note from me): This is exactly what Obama did in 2011). This would have placed Iran’s leaders in a real stranglehold and forced them to abandon their nuclear project — just as Libya did in 2003.


This doesn't even address the massive dollars being diverted to the Iranian nuclear program, now that they were no longer funding a conflict with Iraq. Not to mention, the dollars being funneled from the Iraqi economy due to Iran's new influence in Iraq.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 10:56:39 AM   
BoscoX


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You keep wallowing in that New York Times opinion piece, while the rest of us take in a wider, more open-minded and realistic view of the facts

Iran Nuclear Deal a Product of Bush and Obama

Barack Obama wanted his current job bad enough to elbow Hillary Clinton aside to get it—and to run a nasty campaign against Mitt Romney to keep it—so I don’t feel sorry for him. Yet it’s clear that he thinks he’s presiding over a diminished franchise.

On Wednesday, the president came to the East Room to explain why he believes so fervently in his administration’s nuclear deal with Iran. Inquiring minds wanted to know: How can you trust a nation that bombs synagogues in other countries, sponsors terrorism in its own region, threatens to annihilate Israel, and imprisons American civilians for no reason at all?


Maybe we can’t, the president said. But the only alternative is war. It was slightly discordant: Obama was making a strong argument in favor of the proposition that America is weak. Similar dissonance was on display when CBS White House correspondent Major Garrett asked Obama why he was “content” to leave four Americans captive in Iran instead of making them part of the deal. Badly phrased, as Garrett later conceded, but a valid question. Obama flashed in anger, but his answer was that he hadn’t insisted on Iran’s freeing American hostages because he didn’t think he had the power to do so.

This passive streak was also in evidence when he was asked whether he’d revoke Bill Cosby’s presidential Medal of Freedom. Obama spoke forthrightly against rape, but prefaced his answer by saying: “There is no precedent for revoking a medal. We don’t have that mechanism.”

Watching that, I had a WWLBJD moment—wondering what Lyndon Johnson would do. Revoke the medal on the spot, maybe? The more instructive point is that it was George W. Bush who put that medal around Cosby’s neck in the first place. That’s the real sticking point with the Obama administration: what he was bequeathed by his predecessor.

In discussing Iran, Obama never said Tehran had promised to change its behavior. He acknowledged that Iran might use the economic windfall headed its way by increasing its nefarious activities. He hopes they won’t, but he offered no promises. He also tacitly conceded that Iran might cheat and lie and evade weapons inspectors. That’s not a problem, he insists, because if they do, the United States can simply reinstate economic sanctions on Iran.

That seems unlikely, given that four of the five nations that brokered this deal along with the United States—China, Russia, France, and Germany—covet their lost business opportunities in Iran, and would balk at bringing back sanctions. Thus did a process that began as a way of ensuring that Iran cannot develop nuclear weapons and export terrorism evolve into one that recognizes Iran as a regional power and tacitly accepts as inevitable that it will acquire nuclear arms someday—just not while Obama is president.

So who’s to blame for this?

One culprit is Obama’s world view. Multi-nationalism sounds good in theory, but in real life it means no one is accountable....

MORE

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 11:02:07 AM   
Lucylastic


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The reason Obama took war with Iran off the table—thus leading him to embrace this dubious nuclear deal—is because he can’t invade Iran. Neither America’s foreign allies nor U.S. domestic public opinion would support it, and the overstretched U.S. military isn’t in shape to pull it off. Moreover, the United States may need Iran as a collaborator in the fight against ISIS, an entity which grew out of the wreckage in Iraq and Syria that both Bush and Obama helped create.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 11:30:05 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The reason Obama took war with Iran off the table—thus leading him to embrace this dubious nuclear deal—is because he can’t invade Iran. Neither America’s foreign allies nor U.S. domestic public opinion would support it, and the overstretched U.S. military isn’t in shape to pull it off. Moreover, the United States may need Iran as a collaborator in the fight against ISIS, an entity which grew out of the wreckage in Iraq and Syria that both Bush and Obama helped create.


Wow, great post. You feeling okay?

War wasn't the only other option though... And "dubious" is a massive understatement

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 2:22:29 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


You keep wallowing in that New York Times opinion piece, while the rest of us take in a wider, more open-minded and realistic view of the facts


I am not wallowing in anything. Bush's weakness globally with Iran and North Korea is well documented and has been for years.

Let's look at the facts:
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/19000-centrifuges-already-spinning-kerry-implies-irans-enrichment

According to IAEA reports, the number of IR-1 centrifuges at Natanz – including those installed but not operating and those installed and being fed with uranium hexafluoride (UF6) – did climb significantly during the George W. Bush administration, reaching 2,132 in May 2007, and then 5,537 by the time Obama arrived at the White House in early 2009.

5000 is the magic number to produce a bomb.


The Heavy Water facility at Arak, built with help from Cheney/Haliburton in violation of U.S. Sanctions



Now with its core removed and covered in concrete. Thanks Obama!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35285095

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 2:32:59 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

The Heavy Water facility at Arak, built with help from Cheney/Haliburton in violation of U.S. Sanctions



You are a true howler, thoroughly brainwashed.

Dick Cheney built nuclear facilities for Iran...

You may be the only person in the world who really believes that Barack Obama negotiated an acceptable deal with Iran. And blaming everything Iran on Bush is just hilarious laughable icing on the cake

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 4:01:24 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

The Heavy Water facility at Arak, built with help from Cheney/Haliburton in violation of U.S. Sanctions



You are a true howler, thoroughly brainwashed.

Dick Cheney built nuclear facilities for Iran...

You may be the only person in the world who really believes that Barack Obama negotiated an acceptable deal with Iran. And blaming everything Iran on Bush is just hilarious laughable icing on the cake


I said built with help from...

http://freepress.org/article/halliburton-sold-iranian-oil-company-key-nuclear-reactor-components-sources-say

He was coddling Iran for years! And opposing sanctions on Iran

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/10/09/cheney-pushed-for-more-trade-with-iran.html

It's fun to quote Fox News... and the FREEPER!!!!


Now you MIGHT begin to understand why Obama was stuck making a deal.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 4:20:59 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

The Heavy Water facility at Arak, built with help from Cheney/Haliburton in violation of U.S. Sanctions



You are a true howler, thoroughly brainwashed.

Dick Cheney built nuclear facilities for Iran...

You may be the only person in the world who really believes that Barack Obama negotiated an acceptable deal with Iran. And blaming everything Iran on Bush is just hilarious laughable icing on the cake


I said built with help from...

http://freepress.org/article/halliburton-sold-iranian-oil-company-key-nuclear-reactor-components-sources-say

He was coddling Iran for years! And opposing sanctions on Iran

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/10/09/cheney-pushed-for-more-trade-with-iran.html

It's fun to quote Fox News... and the FREEPER!!!!


Now you MIGHT begin to understand why Obama was stuck making a deal.


Nice backtracking, howler

Cheney did no such thing and you know it

"Sources say" that you can howl all you want, that sweetheart deal that Obama made with his Islamafascist friends was Obama's, and Obama's alone.



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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/1/2018 5:36:01 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

The Heavy Water facility at Arak, built with help from Cheney/Haliburton in violation of U.S. Sanctions



You are a true howler, thoroughly brainwashed.

Dick Cheney built nuclear facilities for Iran...

You may be the only person in the world who really believes that Barack Obama negotiated an acceptable deal with Iran. And blaming everything Iran on Bush is just hilarious laughable icing on the cake


I said built with help from...

http://freepress.org/article/halliburton-sold-iranian-oil-company-key-nuclear-reactor-components-sources-say

He was coddling Iran for years! And opposing sanctions on Iran

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/10/09/cheney-pushed-for-more-trade-with-iran.html

It's fun to quote Fox News... and the FREEPER!!!!


Now you MIGHT begin to understand why Obama was stuck making a deal.


Nice backtracking, howler

Cheney did no such thing and you know it

"Sources say" that you can howl all you want, that sweetheart deal that Obama made with his Islamafascist friends was Obama's, and Obama's alone.





No backtracking. Cheney/Halliburton were doing business with Iran in violation of U.S. sanctions. Including selling nuclear technology to an Iranian subsidiary (Oriental Oil Kish) in the case of Halliburton. Cheney certainly was providing oil services to Iran to help them produce and sell oil (again in violation of U.S. sanctions).

The entire Iraq war was one HUGE Bush/Cheney gift to Iran, to the tune of billions, both as diversion of funds from their war with Iraq, and from their influence in the Iraqi economy. All went to their nuclear program. The largest growth in their centrifuges (what made them a nuclear power) was during the Bush administration. That's why they praise Allah, and George W Bush.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 5:26:44 AM   
WhoreMods


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On a related note, has sanitary considered that el presidente announcing his support for these protestors could well be the kiss of death for the poor bastards?
Dubya announcing that Iran was part of an evil alliance was a shot in the arm for the theocracy which allowed them to dismiss their political and social opponents as naive idealists who were endangering their country, and halt the movement towards a social order less dominated by ageing fundamentalist asshats. The great satan's "leader" coming out for the anti government protestors will likely have the same effect.
It's as though the republican party actually wants there to be a visibly hostile but largely harmless rogue nation they can refer to in order to scare the more timid and paranoid members of the electorate...

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 6:07:30 AM   
BoscoX


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Ya ya ya, everyone is supposed to ignore the atrocities, mass slaughter, and fascism by Muslims, we've heard it all before. Notice it, say something, and you will make the animals even more bloodthirsty

Good "liberals" always turn their heads when they see what Muslims do

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 6:14:45 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


Ya ya ya, everyone is supposed to ignore the atrocities, mass slaughter, and fascism by Muslims, we've heard it all before. Notice it, say something, and you will make the animals even more bloodthirsty

Good "liberals" always turn their heads when they see what Muslims do

Nothing to do with what I said, and not even a very good attempt at an evasion.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 6:35:03 AM   
BoscoX


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If you had three brain cells you would be aware that the Mullahs of Iran are literally doing things by the (blood-soaked) book. Islam is political as much as anything else, and Muslims need to wake up to the fact that people the world over are watching them

Obama would give his buds more billions to wage their global jihad and a huge pat on the back but guess what - leftist trash lost. And elections have consequences

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 6:40:17 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX
If you had three brain cells you would be aware that the Mullahs of Iran are literally doing things by the (blood-soaked) book. Islam is political as much as anything else, and Muslims need to wake up to the fact that people the world over are watching them

You need to make your mind up: the protestors are members of the moslem blood cult as well as the theocrats. They're islamic, so they must be wrong by your reasoning.
I'd be interested to see your argument that the tangerine bawbag declaring his support for these murdering jihadist scumbags from the dark agesprotestors is doing anything but sticking a target on their backs, though. To anybody who isn't part of the breitbart cult, it looks more like your president and the ayatollah are indulging in a scarecrow off to play to reactionary hysterics in both of their countries.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 6:59:09 AM   
BoscoX


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Obama's best friend is severely beating his wife in front of the kids. Being a good little "liberal" whore boy, you see nothing.

Just another day, nothing new or unusual about it

quote:

Trump Reverses the Obama Doctrine on Iran

Obama extolled the virtues of American global leadership while abdicating our global responsibilities. Trump has done the opposite.


Last week, former Obama national security advisor Susan Rice — she of the infamously shifting Benghazi explanations — published an op-ed in the New York Times dedicated to the proposition that Trump’s “America first” foreign policy has “relinquish[ed] the nation’s moral authority in these difficult times.” According to Rice, Trump has shifted away from seizing “opportunities to expand prosperity, freedom and security” around the globe.

Yet when confronted with protests in Iran, it was Trump, not Obama, who took the hard-line approach in support of freedom.

In the past few days, thousands of Iranians have marched against the terrorist regime in Tehran. As of this writing, twelve of these Iranians have been murdered by the country’s Revolutionary Guard. Trump has tweeted his support for the protesters, spoken out in their favor, and made clear that he’d love to see them topple the regime itself.

Contrast Trump’s behavior with that of the Obama administration, which deliberately ignored anti-regime protests in 2009, choosing instead to cozy favor with the regime and maximize Tehran’s regional power. The administration even went so far as to give Tehran a legal pathway to a nuclear weapon. Obama stated that while he was “troubled” by violence against the protesters, it was “up to Iranians to make decisions about who Iran’s leaders will be,” and he hoped “to avoid the United States being the issue inside of Iran.”

Powered by The administration would go on to allegedly leak Israeli plans to kill the commander of the Quds Force, Qasem Soleimani, to the Iranians, lie to the American public about contact with the “moderate” Iranian regime regarding a nuclear deal, and then ship pallets of cash to the greatest state sponsor of terror on the planet.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455039/donald-trump-reverses-obama-doctrine-foreign-policy-response-iranian-protests


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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 8:58:47 AM   
WhoreMods


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And sticking a target on the protestors back by endorsing them from the country the Iranian theocracy sees as Israel's bitch is helping them how, exactly?

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/2/2018 9:18:25 AM   
DaddySatyr


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-FR to the topic, in general -

I'm not sure that HuffPo has sided with the Iranian government, but I can say this for sure: It is unimaginable to me, as an American, that people would choose to live the way the Imams force them to live.

That said, I think HuffPo is wrong for upbraiding the president as what I saw as (finally) quality tweets that should have gone on the POTUS account as opposed to @realDonaldTrump account.

We have a right to free speech in this country and, from what I read, the president's tweets on Iran were the first that seemed (to me) to rise to the level of "Presidential".

Also, since the president is always the judge of the tone of America's foreign policy, HuffPo should just admit that as far as American Ideals go, President Trump is on the side of the angels on this one.





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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/5/2018 4:30:36 PM   
MercTech


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A bit of corporate Realpolitik. Corporations are out to make money.
If there are sanctions against the country that wants to buy your stuff; an international corporations just has one of their wholly owned offshore subsidiaries take care of the sale. No sanctions violated and money is made.

This is why "sanctions" without boots on the ground are just virtue signalling with no substance.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/5/2018 5:17:52 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:


Who thinks this will end well for the Iranian people, in the immediate future? Iran was once a very moderate state, and even women had basic freedoms there - before Jimmy Carter.


How is it - or even was it - possible to be a *moderate* member of a 'death cult'? They were 'moderate extremists' back in the day, for you? You're giving me another migraine, Bosco. Please stop.

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RE: HuffPo Howlers Side With Terroristic Iranian Govern... - 1/6/2018 4:39:08 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


Who thinks this will end well for the Iranian people, in the immediate future? Iran was once a very moderate state, and even women had basic freedoms there - before Jimmy Carter.


How is it - or even was it - possible to be a *moderate* member of a 'death cult'? They were 'moderate extremists' back in the day, for you? You're giving me another migraine, Bosco. Please stop.

One never knows with any certainty what the howling voices in Bosco's head mean when they tell him that not only today's Saudi Arablia, but also Iran in the time of the CIA installed Shah are "very moderate state(s)".

While the Shah's Iran did offer greater freedoms to women and tried to modernise (read: Westernise) Iran, most observers will remember it for its savage repression of its own population, and its attempts to Westernise Iran, which led directly* to the Islamist revolution. The principal organ of that repression was the secret police SAVAK. Wiki notes:
"Writing at the time of the Shah's overthrow, Time magazine described SAVAK as having "long been Iran's most hated and feared institution" which had "tortured and murdered thousands of the Shah's opponents."[24] The Federation of American Scientists also found it guilty of "the torture and execution of thousands of political prisoners" and symbolizing "the Shah's rule from 1963–79." The FAS list of SAVAK torture methods included "electric shock, whipping, beating, inserting broken glass and pouring boiling water into the rectum, tying weights to the testicles, and the extraction of teeth and nails.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK

It seems moderates ain't what they used to be hey?

The seeds for the 1979 Khomeini revolution and today's Iran were sown during the CIA led coup that installed the Shah and nurtured during the reign of the Shah. Many observers see the Islamist Revolution as a direct reaction to the Shah's rule, its brutal repression of the population, pro-Western policies and especially its close relations with Israel. So, Bosco's idea of a "moderate" Muslim State bears no resemblance to anything that the rest of the world understands as "moderate".

So, when Bosco refers to a "moderate" Muslim state, he's referring to something that only the howling voices in his head really understand. As a rule of thumb, I find it useful to interpret Bosco's notion of a "moderate" Muslim state as a state that is grovellingly subservient to American interests and foreign policy. While this subservience seems to be a fairly accurator predictor of whether Bosco will label a given Muslim State as moderate, the relationship of these states to any concept of "moderate" (as the rest of the world understands the term) at best fragile and tenuous, at worst non-existent.


* Many observers and historians would go further and state definitively that these factors were among the primary factors that caused the Islamist Revolution. This raises the tantalising speculation that minus the 1953 American intervention which overthrew the democratic govt of Mossedagh, and installed the Shah, the Iranian Revolution would never have happened ...

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