The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (Full Version)

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Thinker2 -> The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/12/2018 9:32:17 PM)

With the #metoo movement finally becoming a watershed moment in American History, I think it is time to reconsider a forgotten addendum to our constitution, the Equal Rights Amendment (affectionately called the ERA).

I think it is high time that both sexes are finally in a level plain field, that no prejudice or preferential treatment of either sex exists in any field or in the eyes of the law. It is time.

I would like the kind readers to consider some of the following examples:

Politico, hardly a bastion of right wing thought, published an article labeled "why the #metoo movement should be ready for a backlash" https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/10/yoffe-sexual-harassment-college-franken-216057
In it, with harrowing details it exposes the wonderful aftermath of Title IX, an Obama era achievement and the carnage it has spread on young male's lives. The cake is taken by this one quote that is given by a Colorado representative in this article: ~ Representative Jared Polis of Colorado suggested that anyone accused of sexual misconduct should be dismissed without any fact-finding at all. “If there are 10 people who have been accused, and under a reasonable likelihood standard maybe one or two did it, it seems better to get rid of all 10 people,” he said. “We’re not talking about depriving them of life or liberty. We’re talking about them being transferred to another university, for crying out loud.”
Guilty until proven innocent. That is today's America for men.

But how is it on the other side of the fence for women?
In 2004 Debra Lafave had sexual intercourse with an underage student. Despite ample evidence, her lawyer was able to successfully argue that: "To place Debbie into a Florida state women's penitentiary, to place an attractive young woman in that kind of hellhole, is like putting a piece of raw meat in with the lions." Suzanne Goldenberg of The Guardian states that Lafave's avoidance of jail time is an implicit belief among Americans that Lafave is "too pretty for prison." I would be grateful if someone would be able to point me in a case where a similar defense was successfully mounted for a male teacher in similar circumstances.

Oh, but I am quite certain that this bias only exists in sexual assault cases right?
Between 1976 when the US Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty, and 2015 only 16 women have been put to death compared to 1399 men.
But maybe women do not commit violent crimes.
In 2015 a jury convicted a woman who chased down and run over her husband with her SUV of involuntary (????!!!!!) manslaughter. Here is a link to the video and story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPGYbHiKVIE
https://wtop.com/prince-georges-county/2016/07/md-woman-who-ran-over-husband-with-suv-convicted/
A simple web search will provide multiple cases where women have committed similar crimes and have not even been charged of murder.
But how about when a woman commits a brutal murder? Surely then justice is served.
Well how about the case of Jodi Arias? Her victim "Alexander had sustained 27 to 29 stab wounds, his throat had been slit, and he had suffered a gunshot wound to the head." He was found in a pool blood. Arias was eventually convicted to life without the possibility of parole. Maybe if she would have taken the additional step of running his body through a garbage disposal or a food processor and pureeing him that would of pushed the jury over the edge.....

But how about the wage gap? There surely is a problem in the workplace, where one might argue that there is inequality between women and men. Right again.
Ask yourself the next time you go to a grocery store. Who is pushing the karts in the middle of the winter (or any other day). Who is in the kitchen in your fast food restaurant and who is in front on the counter. Who is riding that jackhammer in the middle of the summer. Who spills his blood overseas protecting this country. When you call 911, because someone is trying to kill you, who shows up in a patrol car? Yes, I want equality and no gender gap there as well. I want equal representation. More importantly though, and something that can't be debated, 93% of work related fatalities are men.

But how about in culture. Surely men there have the upper hand. You have all heard the word misogynist, or misogyny. It is the hate or dislike of women. I challenge you, the reader, without looking it up on the web to name the equivalent term for hating men. While misogynist, misogynistic, misogyny, have become common words in the news, stories and the English language, the "Female -> male" equivalent word shines by its omission. Is it justified to hate men? I don't know that the word in its core meaning has an intrinsic justification value, it is just hatred. So, are there no women that hate men? Is it JUSTIFIED to hate men? Do we have it coming? Why is that word so very absent from our culture? Is THAT a cultural BIAS?

I could go on and on, and bring many examples that I feel as a man, that I NEED the protection, the equality of the ERA. Let us not forget that the reason that the ERA was NEVER ratified in the first place was because conservative women, led by Phyllis Schlafly moved to block it fearing that it would abolish the protections and privileges afforded to women.

I know that as a recent article on this bastion of culture, fairness and justice, the NY Times put it, titled "I am not ready for the redemption of men" https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/opinion/im-not-ready-for-the-redemption-of-men.html
we obviously do not deserve redemption (let alone protection), as the narrative continues to portray us, as the aggressors and oppressors in society.

In the wake of the recent Hollywood scandals and the #metoo movement and Oprah's fiery speech, an apparent "retweet" by Seal, showing Oprah kissing Weinstein with #sanctimonioushollywood on it and being part of the problem (though the singer later denied blasting Oprah, the photo has been made public so the cat is out of the bad) would bring the question if there are only strong MEN in Hollywood, and if the wave of abuse is only unidirectional.

Either way, I am fully ready to vote, and support an equal rights amendment, putting men and women on a level playing field.

I don't understand the custody bias, alimony bias, the RIGHT for child support as a result to a unilateral decision on whether to abort or not (right to choose) or any of those things that in my mind seem lopsided or just can't fathom.

Maybe I am just a baaaaaaad or stupid man or maybe the numbers just lie but I can promise you, I am neither a supporter of misandry nor of misogyny.... in case you were still wondering what that "other" word was....




DesideriScuri -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/12/2018 10:04:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thinker2

With the #metoo movement finally becoming a watershed moment in American History, I think it is time to reconsider a forgotten addendum to our constitution, the Equal Rights Amendment (affectionately called the ERA).

I think it is high time that both sexes are finally in a level plain field, that no prejudice or preferential treatment of either sex exists in any field or in the eyes of the law. It is time.

I would like the kind readers to consider some of the following examples:

Politico, hardly a bastion of right wing thought, published an article labeled "why the #metoo movement should be ready for a backlash" https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/10/yoffe-sexual-harassment-college-franken-216057
In it, with harrowing details it exposes the wonderful aftermath of Title IX, an Obama era achievement and the carnage it has spread on young male's lives.


You're misrepresenting things. Title IX isn't an "Obama era achievement." Obama wasn't quite 11 when Richard Nixon signed Title IX into law. Title IX focuses on preventing discrimination based on sex in schools that receive Federal funds.

The "Obama era achievement" was refering to the "[n]ew rules of sexual engagement between college students."

I know it might be asking a lot, but if you're going to make comments about stuff, at least have a clue wtf you're talking about.




Thinker2 -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/12/2018 10:19:03 PM)

Yeah you got me there, I am referring to what they turned it into... but hey, go ahead, ignore the core of the post and nitpick..... congrats! You win!




DesideriScuri -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/12/2018 11:38:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thinker2
Yeah you got me there, I am referring to what they turned it into... but hey, go ahead, ignore the core of the post and nitpick..... congrats! You win!


Where did I say the core of the post wasn't valid?

Oh, yeah. Nowhere.

But, ti's okay. You're still clueless, Nicky.




PeonForHer -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 2:46:30 AM)

You sure that's Nick? Pretty free of spelling mistakes ... blames conservatives (albeit conservative women) - Nick's never, ever blamed any conservative for anything at all. Most telling: he doesn't use the words 'feminists' or 'feminism'. Mind you, he could be making a special effort ....




tweakabelle -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 3:09:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

You sure that's Nick? Pretty free of spelling mistakes ... blames conservatives (albeit conservative women) - Nick's never, ever blamed any conservative for anything at all. Most telling: he doesn't use the words 'feminists' or 'feminism'. Mind you, he could be making a special effort ....

Yes I wondered about that too. The links are a cut above nicki's usual sources ... and the post itself is a cut above the level of nicki's distinctive whiny self pitying trash too.

Of course, the general argument put - that men need the ERA to protect them from excessive favouritism towards women - is right up nicki's street. It's not the kind of reasoning(?) that would gain any traction outside MRA circles. Who knows, he may have copied and pasted it from somewhere or other ... if indeed it was nicky ...




DesideriScuri -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 4:05:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You sure that's Nick? Pretty free of spelling mistakes ... blames conservatives (albeit conservative women) - Nick's never, ever blamed any conservative for anything at all. Most telling: he doesn't use the words 'feminists' or 'feminism'. Mind you, he could be making a special effort ....


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You sure that's Nick? Pretty free of spelling mistakes ... blames conservatives (albeit conservative women) - Nick's never, ever blamed any conservative for anything at all. Most telling: he doesn't use the words 'feminists' or 'feminism'. Mind you, he could be making a special effort ....

Yes I wondered about that too. The links are a cut above nicki's usual sources ... and the post itself is a cut above the level of nicki's distinctive whiny self pitying trash too.
Of course, the general argument put - that men need the ERA to protect them from excessive favouritism towards women - is right up nicki's street. It's not the kind of reasoning(?) that would gain any traction outside MRA circles. Who knows, he may have copied and pasted it from somewhere or other ... if indeed it was nicky ...


Maybe he finally found spellcheck?

Isn't Nicky behind all the profiles? That's the assumption I was responding under.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 9:59:48 AM)

FR
The ERA is a pointless gesture, the Constitution already recognizes the rights of the PEOPLE, and last time I checked women were people, so there is no need for such an amendment.




kdsub -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 10:04:08 AM)

There is no direction to your post that I can see. You have listed many extreme examples that rarely appear in everyday life. But it is important to make note of them. I believe there is little doubt about the iniquities between men and women especially in the workforce. You are not alone in noticing the unequal legal system in some areas.

I think we should work to solve these problems with an eye for overreaction. Each of your discribed examples has a logical fair solution without blaming any group or gender.

Butch




Lucylastic -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 11:45:10 AM)

I dont believe he is nick
too well put together, and not ranty

I notice that regarding the death penalty section is very badly explained
the fact that the death penalty has killed more men than women, is because men are the offenders in murders far greater than women, by a huge percentage. ALmost 90-10
and yes, that is more or less over the time period mentioned.(the latest figures as a whole from "reliable stats")
The attitude that its "unfair", is to ignore the reality.
In the last 40 years, the justice system is moving, too slowly for equality with child custody, etc
But a lot of that has to do with the numbers of women moving in the workforce as well as changes in attitudes.
this shows the rise of women in the workforce since 1955 and 2005

Apart from that...
his first post on the board assumes a great deal about the intelligence of people, that he has to pose a question about being aware that hatred of men exists??and what is it called boys n girls?

that being said, meh







Lucylastic -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 11:46:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You sure that's Nick? Pretty free of spelling mistakes ... blames conservatives (albeit conservative women) - Nick's never, ever blamed any conservative for anything at all. Most telling: he doesn't use the words 'feminists' or 'feminism'. Mind you, he could be making a special effort ....


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You sure that's Nick? Pretty free of spelling mistakes ... blames conservatives (albeit conservative women) - Nick's never, ever blamed any conservative for anything at all. Most telling: he doesn't use the words 'feminists' or 'feminism'. Mind you, he could be making a special effort ....

Yes I wondered about that too. The links are a cut above nicki's usual sources ... and the post itself is a cut above the level of nicki's distinctive whiny self pitying trash too.
Of course, the general argument put - that men need the ERA to protect them from excessive favouritism towards women - is right up nicki's street. It's not the kind of reasoning(?) that would gain any traction outside MRA circles. Who knows, he may have copied and pasted it from somewhere or other ... if indeed it was nicky ...


Maybe he finally found spellcheck?

Isn't Nicky behind all the profiles? That's the assumption I was responding under.


I can see why you think that, lol but no, he isnt behind all the profiles but he has a very unstable footprint, when you have read enough of them:)




MrRodgers -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 3:52:50 PM)

Well Dizzy is pretty close. What seems to be the problem as described in the OP however, will not be fixed with the ERA. The constitution has been either ignored or misused whenever politicians and our political-courts found it necessary.

Plus, nobody in govt at any level, is empowered by laws or those actually enforced to protect workers from anything the company may want to do unless it's obviously a crime or you have the money to pursue it on a civil level. Class actions are on life support.





Thinker2 -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 7:08:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

But, ti's okay. You're still clueless, Nicky.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
That's the assumption I was responding under.



I don't know "wtf" (your vernacular not mine, just substituting what with whomever) Nicky is, or if he went to College but >>I<< did, and I had a professor in my first year that elaborated on the concept of what it means to ass-u-me. So next time before you ass-u-me who someone is and start with a snide attitude on someone who came and tried to start a conversation not a "measuring contest" maybe you should wait and see. I don't expect or require an apology, I would more than likely have a heart attack if I see one from you, or more than likely the Winter Olympics will be held in hell....

Now on to other things:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
The ERA is a pointless gesture, the Constitution already recognizes the rights of the PEOPLE, and last time I checked women were people, so there is no need for such an amendment.


By the same token I should guess that since the constitution covers all those issues quite adequately with no room for interpretation or issues to arise, there was no need for either the emancipation proclamation, or for the 19th amendment (the right for women to vote). Thanks, I stand corrected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You have listed many extreme examples that rarely appear in everyday life. But it is important to make note of them.


Cases close to the norm could be perceived as just being within standard deviation, and I would argue that the number of those "extreme examples" is not "rare". You are assuming that the incidence of these just follows Gaussian distribution and these are just outliers, but we are not dealing with a natural system, this is a set of results that involve selection. I would hope that this is more of a W distribution (for the women's portion of the data) but sadly it is starting to look more and more like a bathtub.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
the fact that the death penalty has killed more men than women, is because men are the offenders in murders far greater than women, by a huge percentage. ALmost 90-10


First off, the post points out that a woman, used her vehicle to run down and murder her husband and then was convicted of involuntary manslaughter (was that SUV in "maximum overdrive" self aware and self driving or did it have a Waymo sticker on its side that everyone missed?). To any sane unbiased human being that would be murder. However it was judged that it was not, hence the 90-10 split exists (for murders because now this murder is just involuntary manslaughter), precisely because women do NOT get convicted for murder. The same kind of distribution I mentioned also exists on death row. A MAIN part of the point of the post is that judgement is not passed in the same way for women vs. men, there is a bias in ACCOUNTABILITY. We have seen other cases historically where a group has not been held accountable, has been coddled, been given a set of excuses and we have seen how much those groups have been able to advance. Crutches hold you back, they don't thrust you forward at a natural pace. One would argue that this sort of scenario is a self fulfilling prophecy and in a way a special case of Occam's razor.

Thank you all for the great discourse, and great reception, if I ever meet this Nicky, "wtf" he is, I will let him know......




DesideriScuri -> RE: The case for the Equal Rights Amendment (1/13/2018 11:18:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thinker2
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
But, ti's okay. You're still clueless, Nicky.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
That's the assumption I was responding under.

I don't know "wtf" (your vernacular not mine, just substituting what with whomever) Nicky is, or if he went to College but >>I<< did, and I had a professor in my first year that elaborated on the concept of what it means to ass-u-me. So next time before you ass-u-me who someone is and start with a snide attitude on someone who came and tried to start a conversation not a "measuring contest" maybe you should wait and see. I don't expect or require an apology, I would more than likely have a heart attack if I see one from you, or more than likely the Winter Olympics will be held in hell....


My attitude wasn't in regards to who you were, sooooo, no apology will be forthcoming. You're still clueless.

And, my assumption - right or wrong - hasn't made an ass out of me. If you're claiming my assumption has made an ass out of you, well, that's your fucking problem, not mine.




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