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Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/20/2023 12:27:09 AM

JVoV

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https://www.axios.com/2023/12/20/congress-trump-colorado-supreme-court-2024

The Colorado Supreme Court has cited the 14th Amendment to disallow former president Donald Trump from being on the state's ballot for the 2024 election. Colorado is the first state to disqualify the former Insurrectionist-In-Chief.

Colorado has 9 votes in the Electoral College. While similar cases are currently in the courts of a couple dozen states, SCOTUS has yet to weigh in.

RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/20/2023 6:54:08 AM

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Just my curiosity: Has this happened to any other after Lincoln before and Davies and Jackson after the US civil war? Maybe for some other reason? Would this affect any result after, maybe as a status of a President of 49 states only?

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/20/2023 12:08:43 PM

JVoV

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If a candidate wins the Electoral College majority, they become President. The Supreme Court will likely rule on this matter well before the election.

To my knowledge, this is a first. The 14th Amendment will certainly be put to the test. It was written to disqualify anyone that participated in the Civil War from office, but it may very well keep Trump from returning to the White House. A conviction would be more of a guarantee though.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/20/2023 10:04:21 PM

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No one has every been removed from a Ballot. It is worthwhile noting that Revolution - topple the government - Trump, tried to get a few removed like Obama with his birth certificate, and no doubt many others including Ted Cruz. Amazing how the lying Republicans conveniently forgot that, and lock her up, while crying voters should decide who is President as long as it is Trump. As you guessed correctly only rules and laws apply to Democrat's and not the innocent republican muppets with their pantaloons aflame and a chasm to hell opening up in front of them.

The Supreme Court will most likely over turn it but not for good legal reason. The Constitutions refers to a "President" as Office holder 30-40 times yet they will use the excuse "president isn't mentioned in the 14th (yet he is as office holder) or they will say he hasn't been charged with insurrection or more likely not been found guilty despite what the world witnessed and him saying it.

I see Trump has went full Mein Kampf Jvov? Yes he has actually read it, more likely bits of it as he has the reading skills of a sleepy toddler. As Hitler said if you repeat a lie often enough people will believe it. Basically everything trump has ever said is a lie. It was nice knowing you Americans because I think trump will win.

Each state is allocated specific numbers of "Electoral College Votes" and whoever wins the State gets all the votes In the case of Colorado I think its a safe Democrat State.

Trump will use this to round up yet another 100 million to spend on his lawyers, not that he ever pays them. And he will pocket the other 100s of millions his dumb supporters will give him.

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/21/2023 12:20:22 AM

JVoV

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I don't recall anything being untrue about Ted Cruz that Trump said though. Cruz actually was born in Canada. In the minds of many US voters, that takes him out of running. Id rather vote for Arnold Schwarzenegger. Technically, Cruz was supposedly born at a US base, so it's American soil, but even getting technical with details doesn't negate the point made. Otherwise, technically, Trump lost the majority vote to Hillary and he was impeached twice. None of that stops the truth of Donald Trump was president.

The birther movement against Obama was similar in nature. It may have been born out of racism or some other hatefulness, but the tactic wasn't insurrection. Technically, by definition. Obviously, Obama provided enough proof of his qualifications to the election commission, but winning over the general public should require doing more than that. Anytime you create a seed of doubt towards anyone's credibility, there will be some that are never satisfied if the truth goes against that doubt.

This actually insulated Trump from many "scandals", with his supporters able to dismiss them as political hitjobs. Payback for the "scandals" brought to light.

Really, the birther movement was about as much insurrection as the peepee tape or Trump's taxes. Even sex with a porn star isn't that big a deal to voters that lived through Bill Clinton's time in office or watch JFK documentaries.

Sure, some things should actually matter more to people than others, but we don't get to dictate that for other people, just ourselves.

January 6th was an attack on our democratic process, so there is a huge difference. The closest we've come to it since the Civil War was George Wallace in Alabama, but even that pales in comparison. Not even Timothy McVeigh, executed for the Oklahoma bombing was charged with insurrection.

< Message edited by JVoV -- 12/21/2023 12:49:37 AM >

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/21/2023 5:04:57 AM

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I didn't know Cruz was born in Canada but I have a recollection of Trump blaming JFK on Cruz, and Kenya on Obama.

Among the qualifications to run for president of the United States is the requirement that a candidate must be a “natural born Citizen”. Most legal experts have interpreted that to be anyone who is a citizen at birth and who did not need to undergo a naturalization process to obtain citizenship – a definition under which Cruz would qualify. That interpretation sounds dubious to me but by that interpretation the same should apply to Arnie.

Yes, with that Trump and muppets were trying to get them off the ballot because of Over, 35, natural born, residency 14 years. If it was supposedly a Canada army base I will dispute the definition America soil as it does not stack up legally to natural born citizen even loosely, not that the framers would have had that in mind.

It wasn't just January 6th it was the fact every Republican House member refused to ratify Joe Biden with the exception of Liz Cheney. She, or Arnie would make a fine president.

The 147 Republicans Who Voted to Overturn Election Results https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/07/us/elections/electoral-college-biden-objectors.html They are all guilty. I have no idea how anyone can see if differently. Odder still was that many were jailed for January but not the leaders like Trump, Mike Johnson (house leader now) Rudy Jul-Perve, etc

I don't know the order of states run in the GOP primaries. Ohion first I think. If he is going to be stopped it will have to be New Hampshire (that the second one?). You could do a lot worse than Nic Haley given the full crop of Republican Muppets. They are only desperate for power they know what Trump is and that part sickens me if I am being honest.

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/21/2023 8:06:29 AM

JVoV

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Actually, it was Cruz's father that was linked to JFK's assassination. I didn't like Cruz enough for THAT to sway my judgment of him. I think his dad was Cuban though, and may have had mob connections. But I'm pretty sure that rumor has about as much impact on the Cruz campaign as the whole Zodiak Killer thing.

Obama's father actually was Kenyan, so that would probably be the link? I remember Obama claiming he had video evidence of his birth in Hawaii and then cued the opening scene to The Lion King. I think it was at the annual press dinner. Funny stuff. It's probably still online.

I think there may be legal immunity for members of Congress voting on a bill or even introducing one. Trump is being prosecuted in Georgia for his "alleged" election interference and was impeached a second time for his role in the events of January 6th and was acquitted by the Senate. As for anyone else involved, I have no idea what charges would even apply or could be proven.

As for the GOP presidential contenders, Haley seems to be the only one actually running against Trump and on her own merits. DeSantis is as evil as Trump, but without the personality. Christies is really just the Trump Sucks candidate, while anyone else just seems to be looking for a VP spot by kissing Trump's ass enough.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)

RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/22/2023 2:51:25 AM

JVoV

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https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-surge-threats-colorado-justices-ruled-trump-primary/story?id=105855615

And now the FBI is looking into threats against the justices that voted against Trump. I'm sending a pattern here.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/27/2023 10:00:23 AM

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is it:
1. A pattern of denying Justice and its system?
2. Violence & death to all maga naysayers?
Sad, yet unfortunately predictable from the basketcases.

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/28/2023 4:36:03 PM

JVoV

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There are basketcases on both sides though. Surely, whoever SWATted MTG on Xmas wasn't in a living state of mind. The media coverage and click bait is insane all around.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 12/29/2023 1:58:45 AM

JVoV

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It should be no surprise that this case has been appealed to SCOTUS.

For those unfamiliar with the particulars of US elections, each state has its own laws regarding primaries and even generak elections. Two states have already decided that, based on their laws, they do not have the legal power or authority to remove any candidate from a primary ballot, but they may be able to rule on the ballots for general elections, depending on the nominee the party puts forth. Other similar cases to remove Trump from the ballot are still pending, but if SCOTUS takes up the Colorado case, those would be decided as well, for the most part. Well, whether or not any state has the power to remove Trump as a primary candidate, at least. If SCOTUS upholds the Colorado ruling, similar cases would proceed in other states. If SCOTUS overturns the ruling, then similar cases would be pointless, as they'd already be decided by SCOTUS.

And then we have Maine.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/maine-elections-official-disqualifies-trump-presidential-primary-ballot-2023-12-28/

In Maine, the Secretary of State decides which candidates can be on the primary ballot, not the courts. Previously, I posted a thread about Chris Christie not meeting the minimum requirements to even be considered for the ballot in Maine, but obviously, this is different. I have no idea if a SCOTUS decision on Colorado's ruling would have any impact in Maine, because it is so different. Anyway, id expect Trump lawyers to be looking for a legal remedy to favor Trump in Maine, if there is any. Maine holds their primary on June 11th, so there is a window to reverse the decision. Maine only has 4 votes in the Electoral College though, so it may not even be worth the trouble of a legal fight now. I'm sure by June, the primaries will be all but decided anyway, as Super Tuesday is March 5th.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/3/2024 7:00:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
And then we have Maine.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/maine-elections-official-disqualifies-trump-presidential-primary-ballot-2023-12-28/

In Maine, the Secretary of State decides which candidates can be on the primary ballot, not the courts. Previously, I posted a thread about Chris Christie not meeting the minimum requirements to even be considered for the ballot in Maine, but obviously, this is different. I have no idea if a SCOTUS decision on Colorado's ruling would have any impact in Maine, because it is so different. Anyway, id expect Trump lawyers to be looking for a legal remedy to favor Trump in Maine, if there is any. Maine holds their primary on June 11th, so there is a window to reverse the decision. Maine only has 4 votes in the Electoral College though, so it may not even be worth the trouble of a legal fight now. I'm sure by June, the primaries will be all but decided anyway, as Super Tuesday is March 5th.

As it turns out this story is NOT as it was originally reported. The secretary of state did NOT just decide that, per the 14th Amendment Section 3, that Trump should be off the ballot. As it turns out there was a challenge to Trump's candidacy by 2 Republican state Senators and 1 Democrat State Senator per section 21a of Maine election law requiring all candidates to be fully qualified per state and federal law before being allowed on the ballot.

This challenge forced an evidentiary hearing. The person presiding over this hearing is the secretary of state. The decision can be appealed to the Maine Superior court and the Maine Supreme court, and potentially the US Supreme court.

Also of note: The 14th amendment section 3 does NOT require and criminal procedure with regard to insurrection. In fact it even covers giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the US. (e.g. recording them singing and playing that recording at rallies, offering to pardon them, etc.)

The public record is crystal clear, that per the 14th amendment section 3, Trump is not qualified to hold public office. No different than if he were running for 3rd term, or if he were 17 years old.

Maine has a clear legal way of dealing with this and they have done so.

What is not clear in the Constitution is how this is enforced. The states have their own laws regarding ballot qualification. The constitution makes no mention of how to handle a disqualified candidate getting the most electoral votes.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/4/2024 3:35:05 AM

JVoV

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It's good to see you around, MJ.

I can't argue against anything you've said, but will it matter?

Maine's head of the GOP seems steadfast in his support for Trump, but I've never heard him say that Trump didn't commit insurrection. What I've heard, which is factual though entirely misleading, is that someone that isn't elected by the people has decided who the people get to vote for. Well gee, that just smacks of that whole 'deep state's swamp thing. This is an attempt to make the narrative be more about anything that is against Trump is an attack on democracy, bald eagles, apple pie, and probably somehow Jesus.

Any appeal must be decided quickly though, as ballots need to be printed and mailed out by mid January.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/4/2024 8:37:01 AM

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67878675

Any informations when the Supreme Court might decide?

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/4/2024 5:35:36 PM

JVoV

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SCOTUS would have to give a decision within the next couple of weeks in order for Trump to be on the ballots for these states. The cases are entirely different though, requiring different appeals processes. And I really don't know the hierarchy of appellate courts. The Colorado case would be the most likely to get picked up by SCOTUS though, as that is now to be appealed on a federal level. The Maine decision still needs to go through their state courts, technically, but any ruling by SCOTUS is a ruling for the entire country.

If SCOTUS does not rule on these cases before each state is required to print and mail out ballots, then the highest decision made at the time would stand.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/4/2024 6:36:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

It's good to see you around, MJ.

I can't argue against anything you've said, but will it matter?

Maine's head of the GOP seems steadfast in his support for Trump, but I've never heard him say that Trump didn't commit insurrection. What I've heard, which is factual though entirely misleading, is that someone that isn't elected by the people has decided who the people get to vote for. Well gee, that just smacks of that whole 'deep state's swamp thing. This is an attempt to make the narrative be more about anything that is against Trump is an attack on democracy, bald eagles, apple pie, and probably somehow Jesus.

NOTE: Unlike the Colorado case which has already been ruled by the state Supreme Court, the Maine case has to be appealed to Maine Superior court, and then Maine Supreme court, before going to the US Supreme court, all of which could be potentially moot, depending on if the US Supreme court takes the Colorado or not, and how they rule if they do.

If tradition holds and the notion of states rights holds, the Colorado case could be overturned while Maine stays in place.

Any appeal must be decided quickly though, as ballots need to be printed and mailed out by mid January.

It matters as a matter of understanding what really happened. All of my news sources reported that the Maine SOS just decided to boot Trump from the ballot citing the 14th amendment. They never said it was a decision that she was required to make by law in response to an evidentiary hearing which she held in response to a challenge to the Trump candidacy by 2 Republican Maine state Senators and one Democratic Maine state Senator.

As for what the Maine GOP head says, I cannot think of any way that I could care less than I already do. In the case of Maine, I can't see any legal argument to the contrary. Maine law SPECIFICALLY says that a candidate cannot be on the ballot if he/she is not qualified per state and federal law to hold office.

The SOS followed the law to the letter.

Republicans at the Federal level LOVE to tout state's rights. They always say that the states need to be able to set their own election rules. Well, Maine did just that.

< Message edited by MasterJaguar01 -- 1/4/2024 6:41:02 PM >

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/5/2024 2:11:39 PM

JVoV

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We must have different echo chambers, because I knew all that already. Maybe you need more NPR. I think the interviews I heard by the SOS and Maine's GOP figurehead was on All Things Considered. Not gonna lie, I don't listen to radio much anymore, but I saw it on my basic news feed and clicked the link.

But does the truth matter? Do facts matter? Trump's rally on Jan 6rg was televised. His words are documented in ample videos online. The 14th Amendment does not require a conviction. Maine's SOS made a procedural decision, as she is required to do under Maine law. And sure, the position is appointed, probably by the governor of the state, which is voted in by the populus of the state.

I honestly believe that after the objections made and the hearing that followed, she made her decision based on facts and evidence. I don't think disqualifying Trump because of the 14th Amendment is really any different than disqualifying Christie because he didn't get enough signatures in time. Each state has their own laws regarding eligibility of candidates that may go beyond the basic requirements set by the Constitution, and I see nothing wrong with the procedures the SOS followed, because that's the requirement of her position.

But again, it's not whether or not Trump insurrected and crimed, I haven't heard anyone defending his actions or saying the decision was wrong because Trump is such a cuddly sweetheart and he could never do such a thing. No, what's been said is that somebody nobody elected is deciding who can run for president. The argument has been changed from required procedure to an emotional call to action. The process itself is under attack. Maine's SOS is personally being threatened, with state police handling it fairly well, so far. I haven't read the appeal yet, just listened to a few interviews and news snippets.

If the facts mattered, the Trump era would be over by now. But his base still follows him, cultishly, and the GOP seems to cater to him religiously. At least in the House. The Senate GOP haven't completely bent over for him yet.

You'd think the GLOBAL PANDEMIC that Trump royally screwed up would be enough to damper enthusiasm for Trump as a candidate. There are just so many reasons to vote against him, I wish I could understand why anyone supports him.

And notice how these forums went down under Trump's administration but came back up under Biden? Coincidence? Or maybe we've been on Hunter's laptop this whole time. Ugh I'm just tired of discussing the damn oompa loonpa. As a registered Democrat, I won't be voting in the Republican primary anyway and I don't see Biden having a problem beating him a second time in the general election, if it even comes to that.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/6/2024 7:35:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

If SCOTUS does not rule on these cases before each state is required to print and mail out ballots, then the highest decision made at the time would stand.

Actually, in the case of Colorado, the decision is stayed pending the US Supreme Court decision, in which oral arguments begin 2/8.

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RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/6/2024 5:19:00 PM

JVoV

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That's cutting it close, as the Colorado primary is March 5th.

Bohbert is running in the 3rd Congressional district instead of the 4th that she sits in now. It's a safe GOP district, but the primary competition seems pretty good. I almost want to send a dollar or two to anybody running against her.

Had to edit to fix a typo. I mean GOP, but I often just type GOO. Same difference to me usually.

< Message edited by JVoV -- 1/6/2024 5:23:33 PM >

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

RE: Trump disqualified in Colorado - 1/17/2024 7:25:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

That's cutting it close, as the Colorado primary is March 5th.

Bohbert is running in the 3rd Congressional district instead of the 4th that she sits in now. It's a safe GOP district, but the primary competition seems pretty good. I almost want to send a dollar or two to anybody running against her.

Had to edit to fix a typo. I mean GOP, but I often just type GOO. Same difference to me usually.

Maine Superior Court stayed the SoS decision pending the US Supreme Court decision on Colorado.

< Message edited by MasterJaguar01 -- 1/17/2024 7:26:20 PM >

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