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RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 6:44:44 PM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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Buxom Goddess: I appreciate your very well-thought out and comprehensive reply. Especially from someone who has :"been there" with a submissive. It is really good advice. Thank you so much.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/30/2006 6:56:59 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BuxomGoddess714)

RE: Drugging a submissive duirng bdsm activity? - 7/30/2006 6:55:42 PM

Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

*Although, a question about using hypnosis does come to mind. If people (supposedly) cannot be hypnotized and then be told to do things against their will, then that would sort of blow the whole idea for me - because the entire idea attraction of this scene for me is that it's "against my will".

Then again, maybe my subconscious will think my brain is saying "No, No" but really means "Yes! Yes"?
(joke).

Any comments?

- Susan

Hey all.....

Hypnosis is a word that's now a little like "yoga"
in that it's come to mean dozens of things,
and few practitioners can even agree what it is.

Can it make you do things against your will?

Well, can a really persuasive person convince
you to consider something in a different light?
If you are "wavering" between doing and not-doing
something ..... can the right suggestion from a trusted friend
make a big difference in your decision?

If there is some unexpressed longing in your heart,
but inhibitions and cultural programming tell you it's wrong,
and a strong, powerful, trusted mentor with whom you
have relaxed, been soothed by, whose voice sounded like music..
if he/she looked you right in the eye,
and in a compelling tone of voice said...
.... "it's all right..... you will please me when.... you do ________ "

What a great hypnotherapist really does is this...
he/she finds untapped inner resources in your mind,
and brings them to the forefront, where there's
a much better chance they will be acted upon.

So can a highly skilled hypnotist fuck with your mind,
bring dark, hidden, repressed longings of pleasing others ...
.... tie them to biological urgings.... hormonal lusts....
bring 'em up closer to the surface of your mind...
and get you doing shit that was previously "on the fringe"....

....... what do you think?

DD
PS, in many many years of university training,
I only learned 3 or 4 really valuable things about humans,
and Ericksonian Hypnotherapy was one of 'em.

>>>Then again, maybe my subconscious will think my brain is saying "No, No" but really means "Yes! Yes"?
(joke).

PSS... anybody who has tried to quit smoking,
or tried to quit drinking, or tried to lose weight...
knows that that red sentence up there ain't a joke.
It's the truth.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Drugging a submissive duirng bdsm activity? - 7/30/2006 7:03:24 PM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

You've been trained in Eriksonian Hypnotherapy? Really. Wow, that is impressive, I really mean that. There are some quacks out there, and I am sure some who just picked up a book at Barnes & Noble and read a few chapters, and are now declaring themselves hypnotists. Professional training is very valuable, I think.

I know, because it was one of those fly-by-night types was what I ended up with on my first unsuccessful attempt to quit smoking. The second (successful) attempt was better because the person was truly trained, and, as you say, I do think trust , and (this might sound petty, but I don't really think so) - their voice quality. I sing. It matters to me. I appreciate and listen to a great voice. It's not whether it's high or low, it's an elusive something I can't put my finger on - but with the second hypnotist, it was there. And I quit.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/30/2006 7:05:51 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DoctorDubious)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 7:11:25 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat
I dont know it just doesnt sound safe to me

Neither does climbing insanely high mountains. People still do it and survive on a fairly regular basis. And knock out play is a lot safer and easy to manage than climbing high mountains.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to enigmabrat)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 7:17:59 PM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I appreciate the note of encouragement. This is sounding more and more like a definite "do". Not tommorrow, but with someone I truly trust.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 7:27:05 PM

Posts: 1047
Status: offline

Susan,

If I take a full does of benadryl, it can put me in a very groggy state, especially if it has been awhile since I have taken it. Things like that, certain cold medications, can put some people into a groggy haze. Those things would also be very easy to ask your health care provider how it would interact with your medications. I would think you would want to be in an altered state but not knocked out so you would be aware of what was going on so you would have more enjoyment from it (especially the memorys) I know you said you can not do alcohol, so this would be a suggestion for anyone else who might be thinking about it, but one does of liquid benadryl poured into 1 drink should pull of the trick without any undue harm or needing to aquire any other "meds" that might be needed.

K

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 7:30:57 PM

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear SusanofO, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I am not thrilled by drugs entering the scene or lifestyle; especially during a scene.

I do appreciate the trust issues involved however, medical interactions with medications and or personal allergies that have not manifested is something of a concern for me. It really is a matter for all parties to sit down and understand the risks and talk to medical doctors and such as to what potential mix of chemicals, natural by endorphins, etc., medicines and such do to your particular body.

As there are many careful people in scenes out there, it cannot be mentioned enough that, not everybody is with "good intentions."
A lady in the East coast was drugged during a similar scene and has had an awful time of it. She was so 'out in sub space' she did not even feel herself being fisted, to which was not something she agreed to and wasn't aware it happened to her. So, in summary-- I am very concerned for all submissives (male and female a like).
She did not consent to being drugged but, much like a date rape drug--it is her belief she had been violated.

I am concerned for all of you -- Especially, when there are those out to take advantage of others.

Respectfully submitted with concerns,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 7:34:53 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs
I am concerned for all of you -- Especially, when there are those out to take advantage of others.

Respectfully submitted with concerns,
Lady Hugs

There's people out there looking to take advantage of everyone. Us poor fragile subs should be able to do just fine and be expected to deal with it just like every adult in the world should.

Yes, it's a very risky type of play. For me, I won't play with someone I can't trust sleeping with anyway.

No, don't do it if you don't feel it's right for you. I'm not a typical "no no no no NO drugs." I think drugs can be used for positive experiences and used in a mature way.

Knock out play has also been one of my longest held fantasies and most intense experiences. Like all "edge play"- don't do it on a lark, but don't dismiss it due to lack of understanding either.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LadyHugs)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 7:36:35 PM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Thank you very much, Playful One. Appreciate the firsthand advice very much.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 7:41:35 PM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

LadyHugs: I understand what you say. I do. I am hopefully going to be able to talk to my doctor about effects of my meds w/ a cold remedy like Benadryl, and if he cannot give me a definite answer, it would be a NO for me (I appreciated the consideration of Playful One in offerring the suggestion, though).

I do know a girl who was date raped with the "date rape" drug, and she had a rough time of it, too. Fisting is not something I am even remotely interested in doing, but that wouldn't necessarily stop an untrustworth person from doing it, I guess - or much else, really. I am aware there are less than trustworthy types out there in the bdsm world (and the world at large).

I cannot emphasize enough how I would never, ever try this with a partner I was not committed to (and they to me). It is not an "experimental scent" type of thing for me with someone I just met, or don't know well - at all.

I very much appreciate your concern, Lady Hugs. Very much.
Thanks.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/30/2006 7:51:38 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LadyHugs)

RE: Drugging a submissive duirng bdsm activity? - 7/30/2006 7:52:20 PM

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorDubious

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

*Although, a question about using hypnosis does come to mind. If people (supposedly) cannot be hypnotized and then be told to do things against their will, then that would sort of blow the whole idea for me - because the entire idea attraction of this scene for me is that it's "against my will".

Then again, maybe my subconscious will think my brain is saying "No, No" but really means "Yes! Yes"?
(joke).

Any comments?

- Susan

Hey all.....

Hypnosis is a word that's now a little like "yoga"
in that it's come to mean dozens of things,
and few practitioners can even agree what it is.

Can it make you do things against your will?

Well, can a really persuasive person convince
you to consider something in a different light?
If you are "wavering" between doing and not-doing
something ..... can the right suggestion from a trusted friend
make a big difference in your decision?

If there is some unexpressed longing in your heart,
but inhibitions and cultural programming tell you it's wrong,
and a strong, powerful, trusted mentor with whom you
have relaxed, been soothed by, whose voice sounded like music..
if he/she looked you right in the eye,
and in a compelling tone of voice said...
.... "it's all right..... you will please me when.... you do ________ "

What a great hypnotherapist really does is this...
he/she finds untapped inner resources in your mind,
and brings them to the forefront, where there's
a much better chance they will be acted upon.

So can a highly skilled hypnotist fuck with your mind,
bring dark, hidden, repressed longings of pleasing others ...
.... tie them to biological urgings.... hormonal lusts....
bring 'em up closer to the surface of your mind...
and get you doing shit that was previously "on the fringe"....

....... what do you think?

I agree very much about the power of influence. However, I really dont think we go anywhere we dont want to go. We make decisions and process things the way we *want* to in order to make everything work in our head and make us view our decision as the correct one. I think we are mostly navigated by our own desires and we operate in such a way that leads us to the people/circumstances that we know damn well are going to take us down the road that we've already decided we want to go.

(in reply to DoctorDubious)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 8:04:53 PM

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Is drugging a submissive to play out a forced rape scenario (or to play out any kind of bdsm activity) more common than I am perhaps aware of? Reason I ask...

I was having a pleasant conversation with someone who appears to be an experienced and mature Dominant type of person. Even though I am not seeking a partner, this person appeared to know something about some areas of bdsm I've not read much about, and I enjoyed what he was able to share with me.

We somehow reached a point where discussing fantasies we had that we hoped one day to make real, and I mentioned that I had one that I knew would never become real, because it's too dangerous. He said what is it and I said: I fantasized about having sex forced upon me with someone while in a groggy, not very alert frame of mind - and then said but obviously that would require being drugged with something, which (I've read) isn't a good idea when engaging in activity (and for me could be dangerous because I take other meds).

Then I said that I supposed one could do it when half awake (like first thing in the morning, but that the effect wouldn't be quite the same for me, I didn't think).

Then he told me he had done what I was looking for with several submissives and it was very fulfiling for them all. I asked him what kind of drug he'd used on them and he said it was some kind of herbal supplement he slipped into their drinks at his apartment when they came to visit. I think this is a decent person, but this little revelation kind of disturbed me, even though I am sure he was trying to just be nice by letting me know it is possible. He really does strike me as a decent person, overall. I feel confused now, somehow, about having this fantasy.

My question: I don't mean to sound like an idiot, but - is doing this to a submissive more common than I am aware of? I am not going to do this now (maybe at some point - it all depends), but am now wondering if this kind of thing is just done but nobody talks about it, really?

Any thoughts are appreciated. This conversation jarred me a little, but I am not being judgmental. I'm still kind of "into" the idea, but not sure what to think. I have, however, had pounded into my head via much reading material about bdsm activity that "drugs" and bdsm activity just don't mix and are a big "No", and yet, this still appeals to me, and apparently - some people out there are doing it.

P.S.: I am not "into" illegal drugs of any kind. It's the fantasy I am into here (for anyone who is wondering).

- Susan

Straight off the cuff. I just got an immediate negative vibe when you spoke of what this man said to you about having done this with others and about the herbal supplement. Im one of those freaks who goes by what I sense, moreso than what I think. My bullshitometer is off the charts on this one. ( For whatever its worth )

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 8:14:11 PM

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Joined: 7/6/2006
Status: offline

How about this? Some jerk tries to tab me without my knowledge or consent and he gets the best beat down my Mentor can provide! ANYone who would do that to you or anyone else is not to be trusted! Those were the rules even in the good old/bad old days when experimenting with drugs was considered hip and mind expanding..."an herbal concoction of mine that i slip into their drinks" - give me a break!

If and when one has a good trust level with a Dom who is actually trustworthy, and you both want to experiment with ravishment and grogginess and so forth., then you negotiate the terms of the session. If he's worth the trust, he'll be at least as concerned for your health and safety as you are...

Any guy who would tab someone is by definition not trustworthy!

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 8:19:09 PM

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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I appreciate your candor, marietwo. I do. If it's any consolation, the likelihood I and this particular guy will ever get together is next to nil. For one thing, he is married and I have made it more than clear to him I don't do married, non-poly Dominants (if he were polyamorous and his wife knew he was seeing others, it perhaps would be different). For another, I truly am not seeking a partner right now, and he says he knows that. Also, he lives in another state, quite far away from mine. I would, in the future, consider relocating, but this guy really is a brief e-mail acquaintance. I have never spoken to him via phone, and we've only e-mailed a few times. It is hardly a relationship. Thanks for your reply.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/30/2006 8:21:32 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 8:20:20 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I appreciate your candor, marietwo. I do. If it's any consolation, the likelihood I and this pazrticular guy will ever get together is next to nil. For one thing, he is married and I have made it more than clear to him I don't do married, non-poly Dominants (if he were polyamorous and his wife knew he was seeing others, it perhaps would be different). For another, I truly am not seeking a partner right now, and he says he knows that. Also, he lives in another state, quite far away from mine. I would, in the future, consider relacating, but this guy really is a brief e-mail acquaintance. I have never spoken to him via phone, and we've only e-mailed a few times. It is hardly a relationship. Thanks for your reply.

- Susan

Yet you're discussing fairly intimate, intense personal fantasies?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 8:23:58 PM

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Susan, no, it wouldn't be a good thing to do unless you knew or were in a relationship with a Dom who you knew well.
Too many things could go wrong.
It is "doable" maybe with the bondage hood instead of the drugs.
This is a great, *fun* thread though!
Anything ELSE we could help you with? lol

(in reply to sweetsarita)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 8:27:53 PM

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sarita: I know what you're saying, and I agree. Actually the girls, he said, had consented and knew he was going to be putting something in their drinks to make them groggy. I think he'd told them what it was, but had assured them it was safe. I know that there is a chance it might not have been, and rest assured that I would ever, ever engage in this with someone I was not committed to that I trusted with my very life.

I was actually approached about this scenario when I first "came on the scene" about 18 months ago, by two college frat guys who'd seen my profile here. They e-mailed me and volunteered that they were only going to be in town for the week-end. They were great -looking and friendly, and bdsm experienced (so they said). And the idea scared the hell out of me. I did not know them at all. I said no thanks. I didn't know them, and there were two of them (and only one of me). We just happened to have the same fantasy. I am sure they had it fulfilled with someone else. Maybe they just wanted to "play". Maybe not. I'll never know I guess.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/30/2006 9:25:46 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to sweetsarita)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 8:34:12 PM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

LA: We've e-mailed quite a bit, actually. Not about this stuff, ever before, though. Before it was just things like books to read, and vanilla getting to know someone stuff (hobbies, etc). And this conversation we had about this scenario was Not in graphic detail - really. And I only recently found out he is married. He's not an ogre, and if I am not comfortable with everything he may have said, I still feel a wee bit obligated to still be polite. Besides, I have a way of keeping it all pretty intellectual sounding when I don't want to discuss passionate stuff with someone, but still would like some information about a bdsm activity (which I did want, and was getting, and which he freely offerred). It was actually a pretty clinical sounding, run-of-the-mill e-mail discussion. I am sure, however, that people will believe what they want to believe.We were not passionately discussing stuff, just tossing out ideas of what we'd do, if we could. His idea (not that it matters). I know it sounds like it's hard to separate the two (passion and information) but - I can and do actually do this, if I feel I need to do it (have no idea if he did, though - that's his responsibility, not mine). Also, I am not sure we'd do it again (and I let him know I wasn't all that comfortable with it, because I don't think his wife knows he is e-mailing me).

For Passion, they need to:

1) Call me after 8pm and-
2) Have major credit card.

(just teasing)

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/30/2006 9:20:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 10:08:56 PM

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I appreciate your candor, marietwo. I do. If it's any consolation, the likelihood I and this pazrticular guy will ever get together is next to nil. For one thing, he is married and I have made it more than clear to him I don't do married, non-poly Dominants (if he were polyamorous and his wife knew he was seeing others, it perhaps would be different). For another, I truly am not seeking a partner right now, and he says he knows that. Also, he lives in another state, quite far away from mine. I would, in the future, consider relacating, but this guy really is a brief e-mail acquaintance. I have never spoken to him via phone, and we've only e-mailed a few times. It is hardly a relationship. Thanks for your reply.

- Susan

Yet you're discussing fairly intimate, intense personal fantasies?

I know this response wasnt directed at me. But is there something uncommon about discussing intimate desires with a person that you dont plan on having a relationship with? Hell, people share private and intimate thoughts on this MB all the time. I would guestimate that the greater percentage of whom will never meet one another.

edited for a typo

< Message edited by marieToo -- 7/30/2006 10:11:01 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Drugging a submissive during bdsm activity - 7/30/2006 11:58:15 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
I know this response wasnt directed at me. But is there something uncommon about discussing intimate desires with a person that you dont plan on having a relationship with? Hell, people share private and intimate thoughts on this MB all the time. I would guestimate that the greater percentage of whom will never meet one another.

edited for a typo

I guess I'm weird in that. I actually DON'T share things I consider private or intimate here on this board at all.

That might sound weird to some people considering what I do share- I think I just have a different idea about what I consider private and intimate. And no, I don't discuss that with someone I've been emailing with for a few days and have no plans to get into things with. Susan especially has a bad habit of getting in too deep too fast and regretting it so I'm hoping she's not continuing that path.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to marieToo)

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