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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 7:17:32 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
By the way Rule surely blocking would only stop any personal mail which I have never sent ...YET. Are you on another tangential mistaken fanciful wild goose chase Rule?

No, seeks. That is what happens when you block someone on the other side. Here, though, on the bottom left hand side of each post you will find a red hand. When you click on it all posts ever of the person who made the post will be obliterated from your view, provided that you have logged in: it is an excommunication, if you will. The only things visible to you then is that said poster did make a post.
 
I have blocked a few persons on this side, mainly because of their use of atrocious fonts, not yet because of content.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
It turns out that of the 20 amino acids required to construct proteins in dear old homo sapiens not all can be synthesised in the body.


It is a protection against some diseases. Also it is efficient: why produce it yourself, when you may supplement it from your diet?
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
How convenient, just like Punctuated Equilibrium or Rule's Radiant Diversity theorem.


Rule's radiative evolution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Everything just builds up and slots into the right place, the environment changes in just the right way and bingo...out pops a new species. usually not a new species any way since it fails my DUCK conjecture lol.

That is one of the main problems with lay people: an inability to make fine distinctions. You have been told several times what the definition of a species is, but you still persist in your misguided interpretation. Consequently, anything you say when referring to species is wrong, making communication impossible.

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 7:34:58 AM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
It turns out that of the 20 amino acids required to construct proteins in dear old homo sapiens not all can be synthesised in the body. Therefore, and also bearing in mind that I totally demolished the idea that chance processes could explain the origin of the amino acids, we have the situation where the missing amino acids turn up just at the right time. Oh dear !!! Or, sit there waiting until the time is ripe!

And what fundamental problem do you think is constituted by the inability of the body to synthesize all amino acids it uses, seeks?  And I seem to recall pointing out a 50 year old experiment that yielded spontaneous formation of amino acids (similar results have been found for nucelotides and sugars, btw).  That such things *could* have happened, as a matter of kinetics or thermodynamics is not even a matter of debate in the scientific community - that's already been answered many times experimentally.  The question really is, precisely what *did* happen billions of years ago - it's a historical question, not a thermodynamic or kinetic one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
How convenient, just like Punctuated Equilibrium or Rule's Radiant Diversity theorem. Everything just builds up and slots into the right place, the environment changes in just the right way and bingo...out pops a new species. usually not a new species any way since it fails my DUCK conjecture lol.

I think you have things turned around backwards.  You are basically looking at the final result, and saying, how convenient that the environment changed over time to give this (predestined) result.  If you throw out the nonscientific idea of predestiny, then what has occurred is simply the reaction to conditions, not the fulfillment of a prophecy, ie, we got what we got, not what was "meant to be".  I will conjecture that you view Man as the "chosen" species.  While there is no denying that Man is the dominant species we have here on Earth, guess what, if you remove him, you would just have another, different dominant species.  Furthermore, I don't think that anyone who understands Evolution well would really argue that things had to turn out so far exactly as they have.  Both challenges and opportunities to the extant life forms cropped up over the millennia.  What happened, that is the solutions to those challenges and opportunities is really only one realization out of a myriad variety of possible solutions and competition outcomes.

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 7:41:24 AM   
Rule


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Hear! Hear! Well said, D4US.

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 7:46:59 AM   
philosophy


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"I totally demolished the idea that chance processes could explain the origin of the amino acids"

no you didn't......now go back to the beagle therapy

"we have the situation where the missing amino acids turn up just at the right time."

funny how you always find things in the last place you look.

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 9:25:38 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Rule I am perfectly prepared to accept any definition any N_sser cares to make.
(eg what is a species) Where I take issue with N_ssers who, having made a considerable number of assumptions conjectures guesses and definitions, then present a meal that they describe as the truth.

Economics does exactly that and in fact should be more of a laughing stock since its woefully inaccurate predictions are well known. eg In orthodox Economic theory  diminishing output and rising prices occuring   together is impossible. The problem is it has occured.!

Clearly it is not going to be a simple matter for N_ssers to make any sensible predictions. maybe that is why it appeals to unwordly types who do not relish the real world nipping at their heels. Go forth and speculate the more fanciful unwordly and unlikely the better.

Clearly my opponents in this debate are not troubled by the anvil, the furnace the nuclear cataclysm, in terms of magnitude, of the improbability of Natural Selection being true. Well I am.

I have been called many things in these threads, bonehead, fool,creationist holding unworthy opinions,not having a clue etc etc etc when in actual fact all I am is simple analytical AGNOSTIC.
*******I DONT KNOW.     and   NEITHER DO YOU************

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 8/17/2006 9:46:07 AM >

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 9:54:42 AM   
philosophy


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" have been called many things in these threads, bonehead, fool,creationist holding unworthy opinions,not having a clue etc etc etc when in actual fact all I am is simple analytical AGNOSTIC."

...yanno, that's exactly what i'd predict a beagle-fearing, arrogant person who doesn't listen to a blind word anyone else says would say........i call it my theory of natural beaglephobia..........

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 9:58:28 AM   
mnottertail


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Why then do you suppose that people who live to 87 die later in life than those that die at say 58?

Curiously,
Ron

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 10:00:03 AM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
in actual fact all I am is simple analytical AGNOSTIC.

Simple - yes.
Analytical - no.

In fact, from your posts, it seems that you are not even listening at all, let alone considering, just preaching and spewing propaganda.

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 12:28:57 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Something else has just occured to me. Till they left the water environmental pressure would not have promoted those features that allowed survival on the land . Eh? and just as important Anthrosub even if such features developed in the sea,not likely unless Natural Selection is wrong,the creatures were in equilibrium in the sea and had no inner incentive to "move on" Eh?

No.  There is nothing "pulling" for the "correct" variations to occur.  There is nothing "pushing" for the "correct" variations to occur.  Variations just occur as a result of mutation and crossover.  Noone is directing them.

Use your head.  Variations are always occuring.  They still occur today.  Now and then, due to the particular change made and the prevailing environment that is the backdrop for a change, it causes a survival/reproductive advantage.  When this occurs, the change *tends* to be amplified by that very survival and reproduction.

In the case of the development of vertebrate life on land, from vertebrate life in the sea... in the sea, one had fierce competition for food among the vertebrates, and indeed fierce predation from their fellows.  On land, there already existed marshy and terrestrial microbes, plants, arthropods (e.g., insects, spiders, etc) and other invertebrate animals.  You also had aquatic environments such as swamps, marshes and weed-choked streams that were essentially intermediate in terms of purely aquatic and purely terrestrial.

So the setting in the Devonian period for vertebrates was that you had competition and predation in the water, and a Free Lunch waiting on land.  Variations on aquatic invertbrates happened, as they do today.  But at that time, there was a great opportunity for variations that would allow moving into, call them, mushy environments to escape existing predators and to access vast sources of unexploited prey.

Well, fossils are actually very rare in number when compared to the number of animals who have lived, because special conditions are required to transform the organic body into a purely mineralized casting - there needs to be a good deal of luck, as it were.  But, a lot of animals have lived through time and so palentologists do find them on a fairly regular basis.

What would we expect to see in the fossil record if the above model were true?  We would expect to find some examples of intermediate forms of life between true fishes and the earliest known terrestrial vertebrates - the tetrapods (four footed animals).

Have no such intermediate forms ever been found, as Mr seeks would have us believe?  In fact, numerous such forms *are* known.  One of them appearing during the Devonian period, was rather amazingly, recently discovered to still be still living today, the Coelacanth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
The Coelacanth, unlike "normal" fish, has instead of the normal fins, four fleshy protrusions that are supported by bones... these structures are intermediate between the true fins of fish and the functional legs of e.g., prehistoric lizards and crocodiles.

Anything else?  Well, yes, a number of other examples of intermediate animals from the Devonian period have been found, but the most dramatic example discovered *so far* is the Tiktaalik:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik
Appearing after the Coelacanth, the Tiktaalik has both eyes on top of a flattened head, as do, e.g, lizards and crocodiles.  Furthermore, it has legs that are much closer in anatomy to those of early tetrapods (and indeed to modern tetrapods and to ourselves), with wrist joints and multiple digits.  It had a tetrapod-like ribcage and neck.  But it still had fishy scales, and it still breathed through gills.  An animal like this would function superiorly in a shallow, mushy aquatic environment.

For more on the Devonian period and the transition from aquatic to terrestrial vertebrates, see tutorials for the lay public by paleontologists (the fossil guys):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/04/3/text_pop/l_043_41.html

and the following essay by the Paleontologist Neil Shubin, who actually discovered the Tiktaalik. :
quote:


THE "GREAT" TRANSITION
By Neil H. Shubin
The take-home message of this essay is a simple one: The transition of animals from water to land in the Devonian period, 370 million years ago, was profoundly important in one sense and entirely trivial in another. It had a major impact on our world, but it did not involve any unusual or extraordinary biological processes. The effects of the transition are all around us. We see them in the rocks. We see them in ponds and seas around the world. We even see them when we shake hands. Let me explain.
 
When we look back after 370 million years of evolution, the invasion of land by fish appears special. However, if we could transport ourselves by time machine to this early period, it isn't clear whether we would notice anything extraordinary. We would see a lot of fish, some of them big and some of them small, all of them struggling to survive and reproduce. Only now, 370 million years later, do we see that one of those fish sat at the base of a huge branch of the tree of life—a branch that includes everything from salamanders to humans. It would have taken an uncanny sixth sense for us to have predicted this outcome when our time machine deposited us in the middle of the Devonian.
 
To get a glimpse of the water-to-land transition, we need to see the creatures that lived on Earth at that time, then we need to look at our world today. When we do this, we see something sublime: The ancient world was transformed by ordinary mechanisms of evolution, with genes and biological processes that are still at work, both around us and inside our bodies.
 
The gulf between water and land looks like an unbridgeable divide. The challenges of life on land are vastly different from those in water. It would seem that completely different animals must live in these distinct habitats. Animals that walk on land need to cope with gravity; unlike water, air does not support animals as they move about. Animals also can dry out on land; this is particularly dangerous, because water is needed for many basic metabolic processes. And, of course, breathing is different in water than on land. Animals that breathe air need a more efficient way than gills to take in air and extract oxygen.
 
Because of all these factors, there are a daunting number of features that distinguish land- living animals from their fish ancestors: limbs with fingers and toes, necks, backbones with bony connections between vertebrae, a bony inner ear, a large scapula, ribs, paired nostrils, and so on. Biologists have singled out one of these characteristics for special treatment: True limbs are not seen in any living fish; for this reason, everything that is descended from fish is called a tetrapod (from the Greek for "four-footed").
 
For a long time it was thought that the shift from fish to tetrapod was driven by a transition from life in water to life on land. For example, it was thought that fins gradually evolved into limbs as animals began to walk. This thinking was captured by a famous hypothesis originally proposed by the American geologist Joseph Barrell in 1916 and later by the great American paleontologist Alfred Sherwood Romer. Romer and Barrell speculated that fish were forced out of water when Earth's climate supposedly became drier some 370 million years ago. As the ponds dried, so the story went, the fish had to learn to survive on land and so developed features that enabled them to hop from pond to pond.
When Romer did his work, in the 1920s through the 1960s, there was only one early tetrapod known: a limbed creature recovered from 365-million-year-old-rocks in East Greenland. At present, East Greenland is a cold desert—dry, mountainous, and well within the Arctic Circle. Temperatures there rarely rise above freezing and for much of the year are colder than -20 F. But 365 million years ago East Greenland was a much warmer place, containing warm-water swamps, streams, and ponds. In the 1920s, a Swedish team led by Gunnar Save-Soderberg discovered the skeletons of the then-earliest-known tetrapods in these rocks. These animals had robust limbs, appeared to be partly land-living, and supported Barrell's and Romer's hypothesis—at least, initially. To see how our theories have changed since Romer's day, we need to follow new evidence, whose trail leads to notions completely unforeseen even twenty years ago. This change in thinking attests to the power of evidence and the way it can change our view of the world.
 
In 1987 my colleague, Jenny Clack, began new studies in East Greenland and found the first important piece of evidence bearing on this water-land transition in over fifty years. She discovered the skeleton of another truly extraordinary tetrapod—one even more primitive than the one discovered by Save-Soderbergh. Sure enough, this creature has limbs with fingers and toes. It also has a very tetrapod-like hip, neck, and ear. What is remarkable is that this, the most primitive known tetrapod, is aquatic. It is not remotely specialized for life on land. It has fingers and toes but they are set within a limb that looks like a flipper. The limbs are delicate structures and seem unable to have supported the weight of the animal on land. It has a pair of hind limbs, but behind that is a tail that resembles that of a fish. Most important, this tetrapod has big gills.
 
The inescapable conclusion is that the most primitive tetrapod was an aquatic creature. The implications are profound: The fish-to-tetrapod transition likely happened not in creatures that were adapting to land but in creatures living in water. Moreover, everything special about tetrapods—limbs, digits, ribs, neck, the lot--might well have evolved in water, not on land.
 
This hypothesis made a prediction that could be tested: Aquatic animals more ancient than this new find should have intermediate structures. A search for these kinds of fossils dovetailed nicely with my own expeditionary research program in the late 1980s. Back then, my colleague Ted Daeschler and I were uncovering fish and tetrapods of the same age as Jenny's Greenland fossils in the roadcuts of central Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is dotted with rocks of the same age as those of Greenland, but they need to be uncovered by dramatic means. The good news is that the state is not a frozen desert; the bad news is that fossils and rocks are mostly covered with trees, lawns, and cities. As a consequence, Ted and I made paleontological careers out of following the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation every time it cut a new road in central Pennsylvania. We found many fossils, but all of them were too young to test the issue at hand. We needed to go to a different area.
 
Ted and I ultimately found inspiration in an atypical place. We began a whole new research program that sprang from a single figure in a twenty-year-old textbook. I was thumbing through my old college geology text and found a map that seemed unremarkable at first. It was a map of North America with colored patches showing where rocks between 360 million and 380 million years old are preserved. One big splotch was on the east coast of Greenland, home to Jenny's find; another patch covered the part of Pennsylvania where most of our field effort had been focused. There was still another such area, though, and this is what made the figure interesting. Large, and running east-west across the Canadian Arctic, this patch extended over 500 miles and had never been explored by vertebrate paleontologists, although it was well known to geologists, particularly the Canadian geologists and paleobotanists who had mapped it extraordinarily well. The rocks turned out to be older than those in Pennsylvania and Greenland.
 
Ted and I first visited this area in 1999 and found little of interest. As it happened, we were fumbling around in the wrong part of the section; the rocks we were looking at were in the middle of an ancient ocean environment. When we shifted the expedition to areas that preserved ancient streams, lakes, and ponds, we found more fossils. During the 2004 field season, in these ancient environments, we found what we were looking for. Buried within a 370-million-year-old shallow stream was a collection of whole skeletons, one on top of the other. One of these creatures is an astonishing new kind of fish.
 
The new fish has fins, scales, and gills. By all definitions, it is a fish. This designation seems to hold until we look at its skeleton. Inside the fin is the skeletal pattern of all tetrapod limbs, in primitive form. It has an arm bone, a forearm, even a wrist. The new fish has a neck much like that of the earliest amphibians. The skull of this fish is not cone-shaped, as fish skulls are, but flattened like a crocodile's, with a nostril on either side. This creature also has expanded ribs, something unknown in any fish. We had found, one of my colleagues mentioned in jest, a fishapod.
 
The fishapod underscores one important point: It is no longer easy to distinguish a fish from a tetrapod. The arctic fossils were only the tip of a paleontological iceberg; after subsequent discoveries in Latvia, Scotland, and China, the distinction is now so fuzzy that many of my colleagues do not even try to define tetrapods by ticking off a list of features. Our earlier definition of tetrapods distinguished them from fish by their possession of limbs. In what group, then, do we put our fish with wrists? What other characteristics might help us? Perhaps we could use lungs to distinguish tetrapods from fish. Then we would have to explain why lungfish use gills and lungs both, yet have fully formed fish fins. Scales? Even here, we run into the same problem, because early limbed and lunged animals also have belly scales. Indeed, the difficulty that our taxonomists have in distinguishing tetrapods from fish is the inevitable result of finding fossil intermediates.
 
This practical problem reflects a significant reality. One of the major transitions in the history of life is now bridged by a series of fossils dating from 380 million to 360 million years ago. The fact that we have discovered intermediates is not surprising; the surprise is that these creatures all appear to be aquatic and not specially adapted to life on land. This insight begs the question: Is there really a great divide between life in water and life on land? Answers to this question come from the study of fish alive today.
 
Modern fish have adapted to live in very different environments, including on the sea floor, in the shallows of lakes or streams, even partly in air. To cope with these environments, they have a remarkable set of features that enable them to walk, breathe, and even climb. For example, the various species of walking fish have evolved "armlike" bones and joints allowing them to prop up and propel their bodies along the ground. Some fish, like the mudskipper, maneuver in mudflats and spend a considerable period of their lives outside water, able to breathe air because the back of their mouth can absorb oxygen and relay it to the bloodstream. Mudskippers can hop good distances on the mudflats; some of them even climb trees by reaching up the trunk with their front fins and holding on with their hind fins.
 
What is important is that these various adaptations to land have evolved many times in fish. Several different kinds of fish climb trees; in addition, there are many different species of fish that breathe air, live part of their life on land, and walk about. The boundary between water and land is quite porous and bridged by modern fish from around the world. In fact, the adaptations we see in the fossils of the fish-tetrapod transition seem almost trivial in comparison to the living animals.
 
Mudskippers and the other walking fish are all very interesting, but are they extraordinary in an evolutionary sense? No, they are not, and the reason is instructive. Hopping, climbing, and breathing fish are just animals that have evolved to live in different kinds of aquatic and subaereal habitats. They are able to breathe air, hop, or climb because of subtle changes to their bodies; no revolutionary changes are needed. In evolutionary terms, the only way they will be notable is if their lineage is prolific and their descendants do great things. The relatives of the fish and tetrapods from Canada and Greenland were prolific; they are part of a trunk of the evolutionary tree that gave rise to every tetrapod—every bird, mammal, reptile, and amphibian. The mudskipper has a long way to go, and many hurdles to leap, before we will know whether its part of the evolutionary tree is special. If paleontologists 300 million years from now dig up the remains of a mudskipper, they will write chapters about its role in a "great" transition only if its part of the evolutionary tree has branched into many twigs. The mudskipper will get extra special treatment if one of its evolutionary branches leads to the paleontologists' own species.
Our understanding of the fish-to-tetrapod transition is not limited to long-dead fossils or obscure fish that climb trees. We have access to the DNA of every creature alive today. This is an enticing record of evolution, because DNA builds our bodies and is passed from generation to generation. By knowing how DNA works, we can dissect the molecular machinery that builds animals. This defines a whole new research program, one that was unimaginable in Romer's day. We can now compare the genetic recipe that builds a fish to the one that builds a tetrapod, in
order to ask the question, What genetic changes are needed to turn a fish into a tetrapod? To see how this works, it helps to understand how DNA builds bodies. Every cell of our body has the same DNA inside. The various cells of our body are different because different genes are turned on and off in each cell. To understand what makes a cell in your eye different from a cell in the bones of your hand, we need to know about the genetic switches controlling the activity of genes in each venue. This leads us to the important point: These genetic switches help to assemble us. When we are conceived, we start as a single-celled embryo with the DNA needed to build our body. To go from this generalized cell to a complete human with trillions of specialized cells packed in just the right way, whole batteries of genes need to be turned on and off at just the right stages of development.
 
For evolutionists, this information is a boon. We can compare patterns of gene activity between different creatures to assess what kinds of changes are involved in the origin of new organs. Take appendages, for example. When we compare the ensemble of genes active in the development of a fish fin to those active in the development of a tetrapod limb, we can make a catalogue of the genetic differences between fins and limbs. This comparison gives us some likely culprits—the genetic switches that may have changed during the origin of limbs. Based on what we know so far, the list is small: Very subtle changes in the activity of a relatively small number of genetic switches appear to underlie the differences between fins and limbs. To some extent, this should be obvious from the paleontological discoveries. Fins and limbs are part of a continuum, and no extraordinary events, processes, or genetic mechanisms are needed to explain the evolutionary transformation.
There are even clinical implications to all this. The genetic switches involved in the fin- to-limb transition are not 370 million-year-old relicts that lie in our bodies unchanged from generation to generation. Some of the genetic raw material of the fish-to-tetrapod transition still does business inside us. In fact, these genes continually mutate, sometimes with great consequences. Three hundred and seventy million years ago, changes to these genes led to the origin of limbs with fingers and toes. What happens when these genes change nowadays? Mutations can cause missing, malformed, or extra fingers in children.
 
We now know that the "great" transformation from water to land has so many fossil intermediates that we can no longer conveniently distinguish between fish and tetrapod, that living fish are bridging the water-to-land transition today, that some of the genes implicated in
the ancient transition still reside and mutate in living animals, making everything from fish fins to human hands. Armed with this information, let's return to our opening handshake. The structures we shook with—our shoulder, elbow, and wrist—were first seen in fish living in streams over 370 million years ago. Our firm clasp is made with a modified fish fin. Actually, we carry an entire branch of the tree of life inside of us, and it does not stop there. That broad smile we give when we shake hands? The jaws that form our grin arose during another ancient "great" transition. The pair of eyes we use to make eye contact? These were the product of an even more ancient "great" transition. The list goes on and on. We can understand how all these things came about by using the same tools we did in this essay. Perhaps that is what is so profound about evolution: Everyday biological processes can explain things that seem special or mysterious about the living world. What is really powerful is that our explanations can be tested by an examination of the evidence.
 
The evolutionary biologist Neil H. Shubin is chair of the Department of Organismal Biology and Anatomy at the University of Chicago.

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 3:42:22 PM   
anthrosub


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Rule,
Thanks for responding to my last post.  I appreciate your elaborations adding depth to the points I'm making about the evolutionary process and that although propositions may differ between authors, the gist of the meaning is not lost.
 
I spent some time during my lunch hour today browsing the Internet and found this most excellent site that provides a very complete and powerful interactive tool for exploring the Theory of Evolution.  It even includes a section on creationism and ID theory as well as links to official documents from about 20 different branches of religion (see "frequently-asked questions") that state their official position on evolution.  Here's the link:
 
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

This should give everyone a quick and easy means to explore many of the points we've been discussing and give Seeks a virtual treasure trove of information from which to spew forth his crazy notions for our entertainment and ire (no offense Seeks but you bring it on yourself).
 
anthrosub

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 3:58:37 PM   
seeksfemslave


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No offense taken anthrosub at least you are insulting in a nice way.

I am thinking of subjecting the saying hell hath no fury like a woman scorned to the evolutionary pressures of daddys turgid prose, which thank goodness  has evolved through  the  mangle of abuse of Rule and Daddy tempered by the iron logic of my arguments the result is
Hell hath no fury like a Natural Selectioner challenged.

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 4:05:48 PM   
Arpig


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When I see something like this happening in the US, and think on the fact that the US is the only "superpower" in the world....the hairs on the back of my neck stand up....its scary, very, very scary

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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 4:28:43 PM   
anthrosub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

No offense taken anthrosub at least you are insulting in a nice way.

I am thinking of subjecting the saying hell hath no fury like a woman scorned to the evolutionary pressures of daddys turgid prose, which thank goodness  has evolved through  the  mangle of abuse of Rule and Daddy tempered by the iron logic of my arguments the result is
Hell hath no fury like a Natural Selectioner challenged.


Good...then we can continue to agree to disagree and have some fun along the way!
 
P.S.  You really should check out that link if you already haven't, it's the best single source I've found to date.

 
anthrosub

< Message edited by anthrosub -- 8/17/2006 4:29:37 PM >


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RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 4:47:58 PM   
captiveplatypus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

When I see something like this happening in the US, and think on the fact that the US is the only "superpower" in the world....the hairs on the back of my neck stand up....its scary, very, very scary


Let me reassure you a bit.... US is not the only "Superpower" in the world.  China could kick our ass.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 374
RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 5:06:45 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
I thought I had lost the last post due to time out. Its 1 am now so I will be brief I'm a bit whacked.

With regard to Population Pressure...Nature does not deal with that by creating new species over quite long periods of time ,what happens is lots of species members DIE in very very short times Then happy tranquillity/equlibrium returns to the environment. This happens regardless of any convenient parallel niches which may or may not exist.

Then bingo in the niches at some time later new species suddenly appear.

550 million years later Daddy Rule and Anthrosub appear and draw the wrong conclusions.

See its not that hard is it ?




< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 8/17/2006 5:11:00 PM >

(in reply to captiveplatypus)
Profile   Post #: 375
RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 5:17:34 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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While you are out here whipping all these ivory tower guys asses...Dennis.......

My question to you, remains to be answered.....

assume there is no scientifically statistically yadda yadda yadda.........bullshit explaination as natural selection.....

If a sand dollar buys ice cream.......

How is it that that tow fellers born on the same day, one lives to 21 and one lives to 87, both dying of lack of breath(and for unwritten reasons) and in the fullness of  time,  each has every opportunity to reproduce.....(c'mon now buddy, I ain't able to shoot flies off the ceiling like I did at  16)  that those that have some propensity to survive through less than cataclysmical events will not produce the preponderance of the progeny?

Assuming that no natural forces are involved (but don't you consider dying as a natural force?) and everything else is happenstance.....

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 376
RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 5:22:43 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


Posts: 240
Joined: 4/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I'm a bit whacked.

Now there's where we both agree.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 377
RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 5:27:36 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
how? by rowing their army over?

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to captiveplatypus)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 5:46:24 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Bob, you bloddy dillatante........are you saying in some succint way that evolution meets revolution?

Happiness, is a warm gun..........

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 379
RE: God, Darwin, and Kansas - 8/17/2006 8:06:01 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


Posts: 240
Joined: 4/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddy4UdderSlut

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I'm a bit whacked.

Now there's where we both agree.

In fact, I think you're being entirely too modest.  I think you're completely whacked... 

(in reply to Daddy4UdderSlut)
Profile   Post #: 380
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