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Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 1:15:41 AM

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Masters, Sirs, Gentlemen, and Mistresses if i may inquire please.

This is not a dilemma, but a request for feedback and what type of response You would give to subtle suggestion from Your submissive/slave.

The scenerio is such that perhaps You are not particular about tattoos, and there has been discussion between You and Your submissive on such a notion, which was concluded that this was not of interest to You. What type of response would You have if Your submissive went and got a temporary tattoo like a paste on of reasonable taste. Would Your reaction be one that would warrant discipline or could something like this in effect change Your opinion over time.

Yes i know W.we evolve, tastes change and there is certainly a degree of compromise that has to occur for people to coexist as One unit. my couriousity is more drive to what Your immediate response might be and what ramifications that response may trigger. (the tattoo is perhaps just one idea out of i am sure plenty of other plausible differences)

Thanking You in advance for Your thoughts.

Best wishes and a wonderful weekend to E.each.

ad.

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 1:25:35 AM

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If done without permission by My slave then yes would there would be some type of reminder as to whom rules the house, lol. If asked to let him to see what one would look like, would probably let him as I tend to spoil My slave when he pleases Me. But then I am into a tat for My slave, I am working on a design to be used when I have another one.

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 2:01:40 AM

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I see applying a temporary tattoo as no different than experimenting with different looks with makeup. Both easily removed.
As you said:

quote:

You are not particular about tattoos, and there has been discussion between You and Your submissive on such a notion, which was concluded that this was not of interest to You.

It wasn't like the Dominant Detested them....I cannot see any reason to get all up in arms about it. If the Dominant felt it was done out of spite, or rebellion I think THAT would be the issue to discuss, rather than the applicaiton of a washable mark on the skin.

_____________________________

Let Me lay you softly, down onto the thorns...

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 2:45:52 AM

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OK I'm going to have to step outside what my normal responce to that question would be given I like tatoos and if my girl wanted such I would have little problem chooseing one and choosing a suitable artist.

OK, situation where I'm apparently not bothered. Shes raised the issue, but I will assume she did not ask/beg for permission.

Then she walks in wearing a temporary one.

I wouldn't be bothered particulaly about the tatoo, however there are a couple of things she would be called to task over.

Firstly and most importantly. Why was permission not sought when the matter was discussed? This smacks of her thinking she would not get the responce she wanted, so avoided the question and did it anyway. She is damn lucky it IS temporary else it would be a bigger faux pas.

secondly. She is MINE, if she is to wear any body art then it will be to MY taste. I shall choose it with her giving input into My decision.

I don't DO 'punishment' in the way some here mean but would my girl know she'd done wrong? Know her Master was very disapointed in her actions? Know that if he noticed a pattern of her trying to get around His decisions and control in such a manner then it may well lead to a 're-assessment' of the relationship?.... hell yes!

My girl however would NOT handle things in that manner. The first time she was wanting her hair coloured after I gave her My collar, we talked about the effect aimed for and I gave permission. Re-doing it doesn't require further discussion but she lets me know before having it done.

The situation above, she would take the same approach. she would ASK/BEG permission to try a temporary tatoo. IF she got permission and I didn't go and choose one for her, then she would take care to use what she knows of my tastes in such things in selecting one she believed I would like and approve of.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 2:59:08 AM

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"Not of interest" to him is a very vague sort of statement.

Does that mean "I could care less what you want to mark your body with"? Or does that mean "No, having you marked really doesn't interest me."

I'd make sure to clarify that before pushing boundaries. If you put on a fake tattoo and went to him and said "Hey, thought I'd try this fake tattoo out and see what you think" then that's great. Anything else, anything done without full disclosure, then you've got problems.

Making big decisions about yourself with no regard to another person really isn't a luxury a person has when they take on being in a relationship with someone else- even masters understand that responsibility and limit to their freedom.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 6:43:11 AM

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Thank Each for the responses. The tattoo scenerio was a hypothetical one. i believe it could be any mix of things that could be used as an example, from the tattoo to perhaps subtle suggestion to perhaps start a Dominant thinking about exploring other areas that they perhaps have no interest in. It could be for that matter the Daddy/daughter scenerio, hot wax, some sort of other fetish that the submissive might have that the Dominant has really not alot of interest in but not necessarily a hard limit or a fetish/kink of theirs. And yet there exists a strong enough connection between the 2 that perhaps as much as the Dominant enjoys to push limits the submissive can also push limits in a way that it is done in good taste, subtly and without demand.

And in such wonderment, i was and am courious about the ramifications of perhaps going out on the limb of subtleness after all in many respects this is about exploration. There are no intents to be disrespectful and or demanding in such an endevour, and then again in the interm perhaps it will be a phase that will temporary pass. And i refuse to say that the potential in the Dominant is not strong enough that He is not the Dom because a few kinks do not align. There is compromise and negotiation and in the process growth with each other that changes over time. Who knows through time alone, the evolution of kinks may expand to include the kinks left of the main list (for lack of a better analogy). i understand that very well.

Again respectfully i thank You for input to my inquiry.

< Message edited by aleshaDreams -- 8/4/2006 7:10:01 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 8:33:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aleshaDreams

Thank Each for the responses.

The tattoo scenerio was a hypothetical one.

i believe it could be any mix of things that could be used as an example, from the tattoo to perhaps subtle suggestion to perhaps start a Dominant thinking about exploring other areas that they perhaps have no interest in. It could be for that matter the Daddy/daughter scenerio, hot wax, some sort of other fetish that the submissive might have that the Dominant has really not alot of interest in but not necessarily a hard limit or a fetish/kink of theirs. And yet there exists a strong enough connection between the 2 that perhaps as much as the Dominant enjoys to push limits

the submissive can also push limits in a way that it is done in good taste, subtly and without demand.

And in such wonderment, i was and am courious about the ramifications of perhaps going out on the limb of subtleness after all in many respects this is about exploration.

There are no intents to be disrespectful and or demanding in such an endevour, and then again in the interm perhaps it will be a phase that will temporary pass.

And i refuse to say that the potential in the Dominant is not strong enough that He is not the Dom because a few kinks do not align. There is compromise and negotiation and in the process growth with each other that changes over time. Who knows through time alone, the evolution of kinks may expand to include the kinks left of the main list (for lack of a better analogy). i understand that very well.

Again respectfully i thank You for input to my inquiry.

Hey alesha.... and all

Looks to me like the
hypothetical person, with the
hypothetical temp-tat, is testing the
hypothetical response, of her
hypothetically strong dominant....

Take a peek at the red stuff above,
especially the last thing I underlined.

I suspect people test and tweak the responses
of those they love, those they are in relationship with
a lot...... especially in the early times.... or in later times if stress arises.

Testing is ok,
but does get tiresome.

DD

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 8:43:22 AM

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DoctorDubious, yes in essence You are correct, and there is reason for doing it in this manner, because i seek objectionable opinion and ideas. I do not desire an analysis of me and or my relationship and or want to be told go and discuss this with said Dominant because it is the connection between the two of You that has all the answers. Therefore the inquiry was made in third person to keep it objective.

And in stating such, because i believe it is important for me to beable to anticipate it is important to research, and part of this research includes getting response from practicing life Masters, Domininants, Mistresses etc. And for that matter, i am not testing anything i am attemting to get a good point of reference and determine wether such subtle suggestion is worth any amount of consideration.

You see, and with no disrespect meant, I state things the way I do to channel response towards the prefered preference.

regards, ad.

< Message edited by aleshaDreams -- 8/4/2006 8:51:56 AM >

(in reply to DoctorDubious)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 8:45:51 AM

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If I was given a perogative, I would want to know why she chose to override it without asking.

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 9:48:56 AM

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i would ASK first, if i could get a temporary tat, and start out be saying "i have been thinking..." and briefly explain my reasoning and that i have a desire to branch out and explore, and if the Master would mind if i did so, and would allow me to satisfy my curiosity in this area of personal self expression. Maybe with just a twist on the verbage depending on the setting, mood, and the tastes of the Master. This is just simply my way of approach. i have found that even the most subtle of actions still seem to work best, when there are no surprises.

~raiken

(in reply to DoctorDubious)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 11:16:55 AM

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First rule is- if you aren't sure, ask directly.

Secondly, over time in a relationship you will learn and be taught what "safe risks" there are to take. For example, my mother will no longer ever buy me a piece of clothing without my expressly pointing out something to her. She has learned that she can no longer predict my tastes. You will learn your doms temperament and what areas are ok to risk a surprise and what areas are NOT ok to risk a surprise.

And again, fall back to rule one.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 11:44:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
First rule is- if you aren't sure, ask directly.

Secondly, over time in a relationship you will learn and be taught what "safe risks" there are to take.

When in doubt refer to rule one. Yep

That would most certainly work for any girl of mine. Communication is central to the way I run a relationship.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 12:38:44 PM

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LadyAlbatross, in retrospect, but i am not asking for an analysis of what i need to do in rules or such, i am asking Dominant Ones what the ramifications would be in their particular life situation ...... please go back and read my response to DoctorDubious I don't believe it can be explained any simpler the direction in which any answer be reflected. Thank you and pleasant thoughts.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 1:18:10 PM

Mavis

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i had no problem saying "Master, i've got zero experience with rope, but the idea sounds kind of hot. Have You ever thought about going to the rope group meetings out by Your place and seeing if You have interest in learning about it?"

that's not too subtle, it's pretty close to "i wish You knew about this stuff and wanted to try it with me"... but wouldn't i just DIE if He decided to go, got really into it, and then choose another partner to explore it with...

All because i didn't have the nards to just ask, "Hey, wanna try rope?"

"Subtle" can kill us in this game. i'm sure He caught the jist and is waiting or rme to bring it up. i am betting myself i'll get something like "Oh, yes, I went, why do you ask? Oh! you meant YOU wanted Me to share it with you? How nice of you to be honest and direct with Me so I know the score..."

:: kicks self :::

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 1:25:19 PM

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quote:

i am asking Dominant Ones what the ramifications would be in their particular life situation

Subtle suggestions like the topic suggests would have no ramifications whatsoever. I encourage suggestions and appreciate them. However, the result will be whatever it is I decide. If I feel there is a deliberate attempt to circumvent a decision I made or to be sneaky about bringing it up again there would be ramifications, some potentially severe depending on the specifics.

It's the specifics that count and I can not honestly say what the ramifications would be in a hypothetical situation when all the facts are unknown. There's a vast difference, IMO, between suggestions and manipulation. One is welcome, the other is not.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 1:34:07 PM

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Alesha

From my viewpoint, if I stated that I had no interest in my girl having a tatoo she would take that the same as if I said "no you may not have one" Where she to pop up with a temp tat to show me as the old saying goes, "the shit would hit the fan". There would be a serious discussion about why and if she really wanted to be here. She knows what she can do and what she needs to ask permission for. There would be a punishment involved, no way around it. That would be a willful violation of the structure of the relationship. Now had she asked if she might have a temp one so I may look at and we could discuss it, whole different ball game and most likely I would say yes.

K

< Message edited by PlayfulOne -- 8/4/2006 1:35:53 PM >

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/4/2006 1:47:43 PM

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okay i thank E.everyone for responding as they have, everything is circumstantial for any given occurance. i am not in any way shape or form attempting to dilute the role of Dominants in a relationship, and i know as is my present experience that alot if not most of each persons preferences are being discussed and negotiated. There is time to evolve and to the option is always available for One to change their minds about specific kinks or fetishes, wether they become disinterested in them or grow to desire them. my mind is far from deluded and there is a very open line of communication with the One i am in consideration with. We do agree that the lines of communication will always be open, but His decision will be the lasting one. i have no problem with this, never have. I gather from the feedback that in fact this is a general consensus amoungst Dominant types, and hence again i thank those of You that have responded to this inquiry. Hardly enough to make a conclusive thesis but enough response to send me on my marry way. :)

A peaceful weekend to E.ach.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/6/2006 12:58:36 PM

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KatHouston, I agree.
Now, if she came in with a permanent tattoo that said; "Property of "Popeye" she'd be rewarded with ten forced orgasms!

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/7/2006 2:08:06 AM

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If I had stated to my slave that it wasn't of interest to me, I'd not have much of a reaction......If I had told her that I wasn't interested in it because I didn't like them, I'd be very disapointed, and consider punishment....when I found out it was temp....I'd be even more disappointed..thinking that she had done it to get a reaction from me.....not something a slave of mine should ever do.

Be Well,
Darkside

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: Subtle Suggestion - 8/8/2006 2:18:04 PM

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If I expressed indifference ("not of interest") toward tattoos, I really wouldn't care if you got a temporary or permanent tattoo on your own body all by yourself, as long as I didn't have to deal with it. When I express indifference, that's generally what I mean. If I told you I didn't like tattoos, and offered examples of different sorts of tattoos that I didn't like, a temporary tattoo of "reasonable taste" to you would be unlikely to persuade me that I did, in fact, like tattoos.

However, Alesha, your later posts made me think that you had a more general proposal of method. I do not like subtle or coy suggestions. I'm happy to compromise and accomodate playmates' desires, as they, in turn, accomodate my own, but it's absolutely essential that they clearly tell me what they want! "I enjoy diapers. Could we incorporate diapering into our time together?" works. Leaving a bottle of baby powder in the bathroom does not--I'd assume that he or she was using it to cut down on sweating or chafing. Sometimes, I come to enjoy things I had been tepid about, but it would be indeed rare for me to engage in an activity I felt indifferent toward and summarily find a new favorite activity.

Monica

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

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