RE: Where do you get your news? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


Mercnbeth -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 4:48:49 PM)

quote:

Genuine happiness will never be achieved through support for self-interest driven Conservatism.

Gent,
I don't see how political identification has anything to do with happiness, genuine or other. I find self awareness and contentment in that knowledge more critical to happiness and more valuable to the goal of enjoying life. I also leave the labeling to others. I find it amusing and identify it as an asset to be sometimes identified as conservative, moderate, and even liberal label among varying issues. I never found that ability among the liberals. It gives me great, and sadistic, pleasure to point out the lack of understanding and openness to those so inclined to only see themselves as liberal. It's too easy a topic, but there is no liberalism among the liberal anti-smoking community. They'll rationalize the subject on personal health issues, but it's a smoke-screen.

If materialism brings no happiness or contentment, and is superficial than why the drive to re-distribute wealth? Using your argument against "self interest driven conservatism" it would be better that any potential to realize material goods should be discouraged. The poor and unfortunate should be kept that way and lectured daily about how good they have it because they aren't encumbered by material items and therefore genuine happiness is achieved. It's an argument against social self-improvement programs. Even I wouldn't try to sell that.

quote:

I can't help but wonder how you have drawn the conclusion that having a social conscience equals complaining.


I define complaining as any opinion given without viable alternative. Social engineers fail miserably when it comes to projecting the consequences of their actions. I have not discounted social conscience. In fact by not considering anyone less able than myself I put all people at an equal level of potential. For the most part social conciseness is misdirected self loathing. Perhaps it comes from being guilty of the exact prejudices and stereotyping that they are against. The bottom line is there have been no socially engineered successes.

Edited to add response to E.D:

quote:

What you should appreciate is that the people you're deriding as failures are the people that keep a country on its feet. 


Nowhere did I identify anyone as a failure. People fail in situations. I've failed, fairly regularly, in various situations. I bet I fail in some way just about every day. What I said was, don't expect someone else to come by and clean up your mess, or blame someone else.

Your point about stockbrokers and miners is consistent with my belief that people obtain the exact level of success they've earned. There are as many definitions of success as their are ways to obtain it. The variety of skills and inherent ability fills the world's need for stockbrokers, miners, dock hands, and all the other jobs that need doing for the country and the world to function.

Why resent anyone? Why expect a government to be the source of your comfort?




Level -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 4:49:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Level,

I've put plenty of posts up explaining the content of right-wing policy and how it is driven by self-interest, reactionary politics and a narrow-minded view of the world.

In a sense you have proved my point because instead of arguing against the content of what I have put up you just dismiss the posts as smug. Not very open-minded in anyone's language. But, the offer still stands, feel free to look back through my posts and show me where I am wrong on the drivers of right-wing politics.

Regards


Much from the Right is "self-interest", and to a degree, I see nothing wrong with that. I also believe that much of what the Right puts forth as policy or thought is done so because they honestly believe that it would serve all if followed, thus going beyond the realm of soley caring only for oneself. Differ if you will (I know I do sometimes), but to go down into calling the Right "grubby", or uncaring, or close-minded does no one any good, and clouds the good points you may happen to bring up.
 
And yes, I could have tried to make my point without using the word "smug", whether I think it fits or not. I find narrow minds on both sides, and see my belief sadly reaffirmed on a regular basis.
 
 




mstrjx -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 4:53:34 PM)

:: gives quizzical look at concept of 'news' ::

I could get in a lot of trouble if I really sounded off on this, so I'll let this suffice.

I don't look at newspapers, or watch much TV.  I use AOL, so I can't help but see 'something' of current events when it comes up.  The same with MSN at work.  I would prefer to see less, frankly.

I keep current mostly through osmosis.  I might see something, and intuit the rest.  I honestly don't think I miss much.

Jeff




NorthernGent -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 5:15:45 PM)

MercnBeth,

The reason why political identification is connected to happiness and well-being is because the values a person holds drives political identification and also the importance that person places on the factors that are pre-requisites for happiness.

For example, if a person views life in a self-centred way (i.e. individualism over the collective and has no conscience for those less fortunate) then than that person will be attracted to Conservatism (for the reasons already mentioned in this thread). It also follows that he/she is much less likely to hold in high esteem the priniciples of respect for others, friendship and loyalty because it is all about the individual - me, me, me. In a nutshell, if a person can't empathaise with others and show some charity how can he/she ever really build the genuine connections we all need for happiness?

"social conscience is self-loathing" - now that is a contradication in terms if ever I heard one, social and self are two ends of a spectrum.

In terms of your claim with "social engineering". To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you mean by thAt phrase, sounds vague. If you mean, redistribution of wealth. The facts support the argument that countries with the highest wealth divides also have the highest crime rates. Sweden have been operating what they call a third way for a while now with great success and they don't have anywhere near the same percentage of individuals in their society hell-bent on destruction like we have in Britain or the US. I'll be interested to hear your opinion on why the US has such high levels of serious crime? Whether or not this is acceptable? and if not, what is going wrong in the US?

Regards




NorthernGent -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 5:25:13 PM)

Level,

Fair enough. There is a point worth adding though. I have consistently posted my reasons as to why I believe that right-wing political ideology is reactionary, self-centred and narrow-minded. It is there to be discussed. I am not simply taking pot shots wth no logical argument. That is my view and I can and have backed it up with actual politics.

I'm not accusing anyone on this board of anything, I'm accusing right-wing politics and by right-wing politics I mean the Conservative Governments that have ran Britain and the Conservative politics of the US i.e. actual policy not theory.

There are plenty of points in this thread for posters to get their teeth into if they can put a genuine case together to suggest right-wing politics is benevolent.

Regards




RighteousBabe -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 5:34:55 PM)

Yay...another Stern fan!   I've always been attracted to his intelligence and honest take on things, and yes, his sophomoric humor makes me giggle.  Are you also a Sirius subscriber?  There's some interesting news/talk shows on some of the other channels too.

Back to the OP, like a lot of the folks here, I tend to get my news online more than any place else.  I particularly like BBC, altweeklies.com, Washington Post & NY Times online, The Guardian and I will listen to NPR in the car too.  For shits and giggles I'll skim the NY Post headlines too sometimes.

Take care,
Tia
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

Howard Stern show, hey, hes honost and Robins pretty damn informative.




popeye1250 -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 6:13:42 PM)

Mercnbeth, well said!
It seems liberals are against smoking, guns, and a lot of other things but smoking marijuana is "ok"?
Yes, they don't seem to like "Liberty" or "Freedom" much either and want "the government" to be responsable for everything.
I don't hang out with liberals for one reason only;  they're just *not *fun* to hang out with!

E-String, Gore didn't really have a "state" to lose if you're referring to Tennessee.
His father came from Tennessee not little Al.
He grew up in Washington, D.C. more specifically Georgetown a ritzy area near D.C. where he enjoyed all the privilidges of the wealthy then went to "Hah-vard."
Yup, a real "Man of the People" that one!
Why do all the yogurt eating liberals always like wealthy people if they're suppossed to be "for the downtrodden?




Level -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 6:15:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why do all the yogurt eating liberals always like wealthy people if they're suppossed to be "for the downtrodden?


*emphasis mine*

LMFAO popeye




EnglishDomNW -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 7:03:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Why resent anyone? Why expect a government to be the source of your comfort?


I don't understand why you keep saying things like this, nobody appears to be resenting anybody, or expecting the government to be a source of comfort anywhere on this thread.  It doesn't seem to even be mentioned anywhere else. 

You seem to be taking the most extreme case of left-wing and saying "that's what they're like".  I don't resent anyone being rich, it's none of my business how much someone makes.

I just pointed out that there's a difference between hard work and opportunistic money-making. 

Not everyone that works hard gets rich from it. And not everyone who is rich got that way from hard work, that's all I'm saying.  I don't care what anybody else makes, I'm here for me and my family, the rest of the planet can eat their own feet for all I care.




MistressLorelei -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 7:15:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why do all the yogurt eating liberals always like wealthy people if they're suppossed to be "for the downtrodden?


*emphasis mine*

LMFAO popeye


Yogurt is a very healthy probiotic  I highly recommend them for you conservatives as well.

By the way Popeye, most candidates running for high governmental offices are loaded.  Don't forget, the conservatives fairly recently voted for a wealthy Hollywood actor and 2 big oil men for President.

Sadly most poor people have not been afforded enough education to make them a candidate for President.




Level -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 7:19:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why do all the yogurt eating liberals always like wealthy people if they're suppossed to be "for the downtrodden?


*emphasis mine*

LMFAO popeye


Yogurt is a very healthy probiotic  I highly recommend them for you conservatives as well.

By the way Popeye, most candidates running for high governmental offices are loaded.  Don't forget, the conservatives fairly recently voted for a wealthy Hollywood actor and 2 big oil men for President.

Sadly most poor people have not been afforded enough education to make them a candidate for President.


I like a little yogurt now and then [:D]. And who you calling a conservative? [:-] I am happily all over the map, so to speak, politically.




MistressLorelei -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 7:28:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I like a little yogurt now and then [:D]. And who you calling a conservative? [:-] I am happily all over the map, so to speak, politically.


Yeah, yeah, yeah <winks>

I like you anyway <smiles>




Level -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 7:30:38 PM)

*smiles back* The feeling is mutual.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 8:00:40 PM)

quote:

"social conscience is self-loathing" - now that is a contradiction in terms if ever I heard one, social and self are two ends of a spectrum.

Gent,
Maybe if you quoted it correctly you'd understand. "For the most part social conciseness is misdirected self loathing." In assuming prejudice in others it may be represented by deficiencies and prejudice that they see in themselves. I feel very social conscience. I just don't believe that I have the penultimate definition of what society should look like. I believe respecting others and allowing them to live as they'd like is the ultimate empathy.

I'd site social engineering as a cause of the US high crime rate. When you have arbitrary enforcement of laws it generates disrespect. When you tell people that its their neighborhood and upbringing that cause them to not succeed you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy. When you penalize a woman, by denying her state child support if she marries the father of the child, you create fatherless homes. The lack of a father in the home is a key reason for generating crime.
(Sorry about using the welfare program failure and taking a liberal position. Not all the shortcomings I see on the part of the US are on the conservative side of the spectrum. Although I'd require any family to earn their compensation.)

As for comparing the US with Sweden. It's similar to comparing the issues of the State of California with the issues of the State of Connecticut. All they have in common is that they are both states. Sweden's "third way" may work but they work for Sweden. I know the suicide reputation is overstated, but ultimately their problems and solutions do not compare or apply to the US.




puella -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 8:12:59 PM)

Heya Level,

I have been meaning to reply to this but have been busy busy busy.

I try to vary my sources.

I read the Guardian, Der Spiegel, Salon, and the BBC every day  (you can also watch some of the BBC's reknown investigative reports [Panorama] as well as Question Time on their site).  I also check the news feed sites several times a day, including HuffingtonPost, CrooksandLiars and InformationClearinghouse (which also has some excellent films to watch).  I also like the opeds's on CommonDreams and read The Nation, New Republic, The Economist, and Newsweek a couple of times a week.  Mother Jonesand FromtheWilderness are both great sites for feature articles.




maybemaybenot -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 8:13:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

.
He grew up in Washington, D.C. more specifically Georgetown a ritzy area near D.C. where he enjoyed all the privilidges of the wealthy then went to "Hah-vard."



Popeye:
Your slipping, you've been away too long. 
It is pronounced : hah vahd.  No Rs  [;)]

                        mbmbn




Level -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 8:17:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Heya Level,

I have been meaning to reply to this but have been busy busy busy.

I try to vary my sources.

I read the Guardian, Der Spiegel, Salon, and the BBC every day  (you can also watch some of the BBC's reknown investigative reports [Panorama] as well as Question Time on their site.  I also check the news feed sites several times a day, including HuffingtonPost, CrooksandLiars and InformationClearinghouse (which also has some excellent films to watch).  I also like the opeds's on CommonDreams and read The Nation, New Republic, The Economist, and Newsweek a couple of times a week.  Mother Jonesand FromtheWilderness are both great sites for feature articles.




Hey puella [:D]. Some excellent choices, very well balanced, all told. I used to read The Nation, and enjoy Katha Pollit and Alexander Cockburn (who has an interesting site, Counter-punch, I think it's called).




puella -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 8:19:42 PM)

Ooh I shall have to check that out, Level, thanks!




Level -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 8:23:00 PM)

You're welcome my friend.

Here's a link to it:

http://www.counterpunch.org




NorthernGent -> RE: Where do you get your news? (8/7/2006 11:54:39 PM)

MercnBeth,

Maybe if you quoted it correctly you'd understand. "For the most part social conciseness is misdirected self loathing." In assuming prejudice in others it may be represented by deficiencies and prejudice that they see in themselves. I feel very social conscience. I just don't believe that I have the penultimate definition of what society should look like. I believe respecting others and allowing them to live as they'd like is the ultimate empathy.

I'd site social engineering as a cause of the US high crime rate. When you have arbitrary enforcement of laws it generates disrespect. When you tell people that its their neighborhood and upbringing that cause them to not succeed you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy. When you penalize a woman, by denying her state child support if she marries the father of the child, you create fatherless homes. The lack of a father in the home is a key reason for generating crime.

So, you're saying that words speak louder than actions in this case - i.e. words shape society rather than policy. Is there any evidence you can point to for this one? As requested, feel free to provide examples of left-wing Democrat policies that have shaped the US - I'm curious about just how left-wing the Democrats are.

I believe respecting others and allowing them to live as they'd like is the ultimate empathy.
 
But, Conservative polictics doesn't allow people to live as they wish as it creates a society of haves and have nots where the have nots are deprived of opportunity. You only allow people to live as they wish by laying the foundations of opportunity for all of society.

As for comparing the US with Sweden. It's similar to comparing the issues of the State of California with the issues of the State of Connecticut. All they have in common is that they are both states. Sweden's "third way" may work but they work for Sweden. I know the suicide reputation is overstated, but ultimately their problems and solutions do not compare or apply to the US.
 
I wasn't suggest we make a comparison between the US and Sweden, I was suggesting we contrast them i.e. what are the differences in the general trends in these two societies that have created such differing levels of crime. It's not just Sweden, you can extend this to just about any country in the developed world. You're doing your best to swerve this one but feel free to explain what is going wrong in the US, why such high levels of serious crime?

Regards








Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 [5] 6   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875