RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 10:42:12 AM)

Kedikat, ALL of them.
People who come to this country should have to take an oath and sign a note that they will leave all their wars and fighting behind them and not bring that shit to this country!
I knew a lot of "IRA" people, "sympathisers" in Boston  who'd be raising money "for the cause" and would avoid them like the plague that they are! They're just terrorist enablers raising money to buy guns, bullets, bombs for the IRA!
It seems that everyone with a "cause" or "war" tries to enlist the "help" of America. That shit needs to stop!
I don't care about foreign country's wars. Period.



Emperor1956 -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 11:23:12 AM)

sharainks, you do not say "deport", true.  You say "lets shut down immigration."   Tell Me the difference in that distinction, please?  You wouldn't send new immigrants back, but you would stop them from coming in?  I don't see the logic, there.

If I mischaracterized your post, then I'm sorry. 

E



anthrosub -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 12:00:34 PM)

The United States has a history of intolerance that goes back to its inception.  The Irish were persecuted, so were the Catholics, Mormons, Native Americans, African-Americans, etc.  It's not necessarily about religion but rather whatever has everyone's attention at the time.  Right now, the fanatic members of Islam are bringing the spotlight on themselves and the entire Muslim community suffers as a result.
 
All religions have their own maturity cycle.  Think of it as resistance to change.  Some people are early adopters while others are not, some (like me) are outside the whole thing.  If you look at the entire history of human civilization you will see countless examples of one "movement" being either fought against or imposed on others.  Islam is a fairly young religion in terms of human history and we are seeing the impact of it spreading around the globe.
 
My problem with Islam is the same for any religion.  If it can be interpreted in a way that provides people with a justification to go out and inflict pain and suffering on others...it's not a good religion.  Some will say it's the handful of extremists that are at fault but I say it's religion that's to blame because it provides a construct for those people to organize their delusions and act them out.  All the peaceful members who insist on continuing to worship the religion are indirectly supporting the violence whether they want to admit it or not.
 
Of course, we are already fully embedded in this mess and the only thing we can do is participate (or refrain) in letting it play itself out.  At some point in the future, Islam, like all other religions will have reached its cultural saturation point and stabilize.  By then there may be some other concept that people will be signing up for in droves (maybe Kaballah...just kidding).
 
You also cannot exclude all the other mitigating factors currently at play.  The United States is a nation on wheels and a consumer based society that is obsessed with material possession (that's why we get along so well).  The world has at last been fully explored (no more open territory for the black sheep to move to and settle).  All areas of the world are now "sovereign."
 
The majority of the world's population is under-educated while at the same time, increasing in size at an exponential rate.  The horrific conditions that people in under-developed parts of the world grow up in is as much responsible for creating the extremists as the religions they use to express their frustrations.  But unfortunately, the entire Earth will never achieve the same living conditions we enjoy here in the United States, parts of Europe, or areas with the Asian continent and other pockets of civilization.
 
But there's still hope.  The world's resources are being increasingly strained every day.  It's conceivable that we've already exceeded the Earth's carrying capacity and don't know it yet.  If not, it's not too far away from happening.  At some point, the human race will collapse in upon itself and those cultures that survive will likely return to living in isolation from each other simply because we won't have the resources to support the current global economy and communcation.  It will still exist on some level but I wouldn't be surprised if the tall ships one day make a comeback.
 
This is not an apocalypse being described...simply change.  I realize it's also much more complicated than what I'm saying but one can only write so much in a post.
 
Oh and by the way, much of what I said could be completely solved by humans taking it upon themselves to reduce their numbers but that will never happen.
 
anthrosub



thetammyjo -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 12:26:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I'm not afraid of anything in history, and I'm not afraid of what is occurring in the world today. My fear is that people don't want to recognize today's reality for what it is. If you want to speak of history only 14% supported Hitler, yet all Germans went to war. Only 11% of the colonists supported Independence, yet 100% of the colonies became the United States. Without a vocal and in control leadership, it could be only 2% of Muslims who are violent, but they are the ones being used to identify the other 98%. If there is a a majority not being represented why are they in the background and so silent?


This is entirely my point.

Someone said "Only 39% feel this way" as though it meant nothing.

It only takes a bit of hatred in any group, especially if those are the ones who vote or are the only ones willing to be active, to do great harm.

People, in my opinion of both now and historical periods, are primarily sheep who simply follow along OR they are too worried/concerned with just living to pay enough attention to others around them.

That's what I put this poll information here. Each of us needs to be aware of what is going on and beyond that awareness we need to do something.

What did I do beyond bitch here? I wrote to the newspaper, I let others know, and I did in fact contact my governmental representatives and tell them that I hope they are not part of this percent would things this is a good idea and that I will ask about such ideas when they come around to campaign and I will not support anyone financially or with my vote who does.

Not Mercnbeth at all but anyone who happens to agree with these 39% mentioned in the poll. You have the right as an American citizen to also petition for what you want. But now I know such ideas exist and so do others who may not decide to just sit back, we may decide to make our voice louder.

I have a duty as an American, hell, as a human being, to stand up when I see other people's rights being threatened in any way to speak up. Someone does not like that, someone wants to call me unpatriotic, try it, but this woman doesn't shut up because she is not a sheep and she actually worries about things outside her private home.



Alumbrado -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 12:42:15 PM)

Saying 'only 39% felt that way' is pointing out that the majority is saying they are against it...
You are the one overlooking the majority's expressed opinions, and acting as though the thoughts of a few are the only significant part.

One more time, it is an entertainment push poll, with no more real world relevance than earlier polls on Paris Hilton's dog, or the likely winners of the next Super Bowl.

Since you failed to get the historic reference to 'bread and circuses', I suspect it will be equally useless to refer you to the thoughts of Augustine Birrell...

http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Augustine-Birrell/1/index.html






sharainks -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 1:41:43 PM)

Emperor, to me its simple.  Until we can get a better handle on who is coming in maybe its better that none come in.  I don't care what color their skin is or what their relgious preferances are but I danged sure care if they intend to come in to make war on this country from inside it.

I also think that setting "guidelines" if you will on what is expected of someone entering this country is better than the current US version of letting people stream in from the southern border for years and then suddenly start screaming about how bad it is for the country. How they need to suddenly meet laws that no one bothered to tell them about to start with.  One man that was just  ready to be released from the prison I work in told me that he had to go back to Mexico "I guess it is against the law to come here."  He had not known that.  He was worried that he would get more prison time over it. 

I would not expect to move to another country and think they would find my flying of the US flag and my insistence that they learn English to accomodate me to meet with approval of those already there.  My example of France was meant to be an example and thats all.  They are very upfront about it.  You live in France you live like us.  We will not change our country to suit you.  Make a decision-very simple live here by these rules or don't live here. 

I'm quite well aware of what went on during WWII and find it appalling as well.  The US has always opened itself to bringing those traumatized by these situations to this country.  In the history of this country those people have learned to blend and preserve their own customs and yet live by what is expected in this one. 



popeye1250 -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 1:42:43 PM)

Anthrosub, I wouldn't trust any of them!
You never know when they're going to snap and "Find Allah!"



thetammyjo -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 3:33:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Saying 'only 39% felt that way' is pointing out that the majority is saying they are against it...
You are the one overlooking the majority's expressed opinions, and acting as though the thoughts of a few are the only significant part.

One more time, it is an entertainment push poll, with no more real world relevance than earlier polls on Paris Hilton's dog, or the likely winners of the next Super Bowl.

Since you failed to get the historic reference to 'bread and circuses', I suspect it will be equally useless to refer you to the thoughts of Augustine Birrell...

http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Augustine-Birrell/1/index.html




I think you don't understand the "Bread and circuses" idea at all.

That relates to governments using social programs to keep the masses content, first recognized by modern historians as a part of Roman politics, primarily in the imperial period but really begun in the later Republican period. Other politicans and governments have used it.

Do you want me to cite you some passage from Latin and Greeks authors who discuss such examples in the Roman world? Do you want them in English translation or the Latin and Greek texts?

(I'm a ancient historian, please don't pull this pop history BS with me -- it only makes me value the comments less)

This poll was from Gallup so unless you think Gallup is run by the federal government, there is no connection.

And as much as you may wish that the majority did rule in a democracy that hasn't been the case since the radical democracy of Athens in the Classical period. Most governments are formed by minorities and continue to be chosen by less than half the voting-capable population who care enough to get off their butts and vote and makes their voices heard.

You want to see this as nothing but entertainment, go ahead, fine, ride along with things.

Don't tell me how to feel about the poll or to take no action please.



Sinergy -> RE: 39% of American want special IDs for Muslims?!? (8/12/2006 6:41:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Did anyone else see this gallup poll?

http://rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.editorandpublisher.com%2Feandp%2Fnews%2Farticle_display.jsp%3Fvnu_content_id%3D1002984956

I'd link to the poll itself but you have to be a paying member of the Gallup Poll website to view it.

In short it says:
22% of those polled would not want to have a Muslim as a neighbor
34% think Muslims in American support al-Qaeda
49% think Muslim-Americans are loyal to America
39% think Muslims in American (Americans or not) should carry a special I.D.
39% say they have prejudiece against Muslims
44% think Muslims hold religious views that are too extreme

The I.D. thing is what is upsetting me -- the rest is people opinions, but an I.D. would be something you force on others.

I don't even know what to say to this. I'm just feeling a bit more like I'm in the 1930s in Germany that I did yesterday.

As a historian I am scared.
As an American I am afraid.
As a Christian I am horrified.



As monkeyboy stated "This would be a lot easier if this was a dictatorship, as long as I was the dictator."

The similarities to pre-world war 2 in the worldview of the American people astonish me.  We have the most powerful military on the planet, and our leaders are encouraging us to be afraid of everything.

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who stated "People who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

I really hope the people in the United States wake up soon, before it is too late.

Sinergy




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