starting on bottom? (Full Version)

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beenwhipped -> starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 1:05:30 PM)

I have heard that many masters/dominates in the were introduced to the lifestyle as a sub.

If this is the case for you did it help you when you found yourself as a master?
If not, do you feel as though it would have helped?

thanks in advance for answers that guide me along the path i walk.
james



JessieMe -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 1:08:07 PM)

Having played with doms who did as well as those who did not start out as a sub I can honestly say from my end... it made no difference. Either they had the dominant personality or they did not. That is ultimately what I will respond to.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 1:21:52 PM)

All experiences in one's life can be useful to whatever they embark upon next.

It can help a lot of people gain a lot of perspective.

But I've never seen it as necessary.  Subs and doms are just too varied to suggest that your experience will allow you to understand and predict all others.  And going through the motions can help bring perspective, but does not allow for the same as one oriented in that way.



LadyTantalize -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 1:22:23 PM)

I did actually "start out" as a dominant, even sadistic child.   But I was introduced to formal leather ways by a Master and I was his slave..... and not a good one at that, yet he was a humble and easy-going man and I appreciate ALL that he taught me.   He knew me to be a dominant, sadomasochistic soul and he prodded me to learn to top as much as he chided me about my shortcomings in submission as well as slavery.   His mantra in my younger years was ...."experience the bottom to master to top".   I didn't get it for a while then it hit me and it remains to this day.   Although everyone around me also knew I wasn't slave material, I felt cherished and learned so much from the experience -- even some things not do to.  But that was many moons ago..... I gave it my all for a while and I am proud and appreciative of the experience.  I think it taught me how to better manage myself, to be humble with my dominant nature and to use compassion and empathy in conjunction with sadism.

Anyway, the question you pose could have as many individual answers as there are individuals, I think.   It's different for everyone.




beenwhipped -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 1:29:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTantalize

Anyway, the question you pose could have as many individual answers as there are individuals, I think.   It's different for everyone.


first off thank you for your answer

I posted this well aware that there would be many different ways to answer, i have noticed that understanding what others have through, will help me understand what it is that i am going through. not that i am going to take one person's answer and try to model myself from them



LadyHugs -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 1:35:32 PM)

Dear beenwhipped, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I cut my teeth in this lifestyle from a slave level, as the mentality was still male were always Masters and females always slaves.  However, I was in that time when winds of changes were going on. 
 
It is my belief that learning how to serve gives a measure of understanding and appreciation for the power of slaves.  That said, most Masters had come from slave to Master, so they knew how to serve and be served so, nobody could fudge on service.  It was a smaller community as well, selective and more narrow minded then.
Areas covered in my time, training as slave was much more than being whipped, scrubbing floors, protocols.  If I listed them --well, the list would be to long.
 
When I phased into the Master's role, I found it much easier to catch other slaves --well, being slaves.  The old "been there-done that" is a trueism.  At times I saw myself in another slave.  I knew the unspoken world of slaves.  Perhaps, this is why I champion and cherish them so much.  It is a glimpse in my past and a glimmer of my future with slaves as their Master.

Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs
 
 



Mercnbeth -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 1:49:40 PM)

quote:

If this is the case for you did it help you when you found yourself as a master? If not, do you feel as though it would have helped?


BW,
Put this comment in perspective that it occurred at least 25 years ago. Having lost a bet in a NYC club I 'submitted'. It hurt like hell, but I was laughing hysterically throughout the experience much to the frustration of my leather bound Domme friend. If you have just discovered BDSM and are new to any BDSM activity the experience may be a good reference point when you go through the self evaluation of determining if you are a submissive, dominant, or switch. 

Outside of "did it - done it" I don't think it "helps" or gives you "perspective". It gives you sensation, but you won't glean the mental, emotional, or even physical way the sensation is processed by a submissive or masochist. I don't believe it's possible anymore than as a man I can tell you how a woman processes sex. The sensation is processed in a totally different manner mentally as much as it is physiologically. Genders have different processing mechanisms. Dominants and submissives also process the same sensation differently.

Think about someone telling you: "Okay, you can spank me but not TOO hard". If you've spanked or been spanked by 200,000 people prior would that perspective tell you how the other person defines "TOO hard"?

There's two processes that I recommend any person new experience. The first is the most essential - learn about yourself. Learn everything, expose yourself to everything via every method available. Listen to yourself and your reactions to determine the best definition of you, and set your goal accordingly. Next is to go and experience first hand as much as you can. It can't be done on-line. Get out and make contacts, if not through personals, attend Munches. If Munches aren't in your neck of the woods, plan your next vacation around a lifestyle event. Talk to people. Throughout the endeavor you'll gain confidence.

Coming into a relationship with confidence is the best tool you can have to make it successful whether the relationship is casual, or lifelong.



beenwhipped -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 2:09:51 PM)

Merc & beth,

I could not agree with you more. this only one place that i go to learn, both online and in the physical world. as long as You and the O/others here are willing to put up with my stupid questions i plan on milking it for all its worth[:D] but i, in no means will take one persons word as gospel, and i will go out and apply a select part of what i read here to the real world with my personal spin on it, then, and only then i will consider that i have learned something new



amayos -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 3:42:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beenwhipped

I have heard that many masters/dominates in the were introduced to the lifestyle as a sub.

If this is the case for you did it help you when you found yourself as a master?
If not, do you feel as though it would have helped?

thanks in advance for answers that guide me along the path i walk.


To know what it feels like to shiver under an edge or cower naked in anticipation of the next strike does one wonders in plying the tools of the flipside. Having understanding of the servile creature's longings can only benefit you when shaping and trapping your own servant. It is not needed to dominate, but is advantageous to know and draw from.



porcelaine -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 4:24:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beenwhipped

I have heard that many masters/dominates in the were introduced to the lifestyle as a sub.

If this is the case for you did it help you when you found yourself as a master?
If not, do you feel as though it would have helped?



When I began this path many years ago I found myself on the other side of the paddle. I believe the experiences and knowledge were helpful and eventually led to the exploration of my submission. I would learn in time that both paths offered something of merit and fulfilled needs that I possessed within.

I find that I look at things from both ends of the spectrum and I'm able to grasp concepts and tasks on a completely different level. Particularly when these things conflict with my own desires at the time. I'm far more patient, understanding, and a much better servant overall. I have a deeper respect and appreciation for the dominant role and greater expectations of myself as a slave.

Of course the added benefit is the ability to see through shortcomings and fallacies that might go unnoticed initially by those without these leanings. As such, I find that I am drawn to those that possess a similar mentality as mine when I'm on the top side.

porcelaine



Misstoyou -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 4:29:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Having understanding of the servile creature's longings can only benefit you when shaping and trapping your own servant.



On the other hand, simply gaining the feeling of physical sensation, only going though the motions, will not give one that understanding of a submissive's longing.



Slipstreme -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 5:09:49 PM)

quote:

Think about someone telling you: "Okay, you can spank me but not TOO hard". If you've spanked or been spanked by 200,000 people prior would that perspective tell you how the other person defines "TOO hard"?


I, as a sadomasochist have had to learn this fact well: People respond to pain differently. Just because it is something I enjoy, it may not be something they will enjoy, or something they consented to. Pain is a uniquely individual experience, and what I've found that enjoy most on either side of the whip is that there is truth in pain. Nothing is faked, nothing can be faked, but how others respond to the same things I have never fails to amaze me, even if their scenes might not reach the same severity as mine.  

As far as being a submissive, I have not had that experience, and I wish not to have it. I like bottoming without service, because I can't stand being controlled by anyone but myself. If and when I serve anyone, it is of my own volition, when and where I feel like it. I can see how serving under someone can give you some idea of what it would be like to have a slave of your own, but at the same time: milage may, and often does vary. If you didn't have the devotion for being the submissive that your now submissive has, you may never understand how much being prevented in serving you could upset them, and sometimes throw them off balance (something I learned once from my roomate, and was once demonstrated by my slave who was driven to irrational anger at a man she saw was preventing her in serving me). Submission to me is a whole other creature. I wish to understand it fully, but I know I can't. It will take the evolution of my relationship with my slave to make it all happen. 



amayos -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/15/2006 7:07:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

On the other hand, simply gaining the feeling of physical sensation, only going though the motions, will not give one that understanding of a submissive's longing.


Quite true. And likewise, one can say the same of the dominant form. It behooves us to fully embrace whatever odyssey we undertake for our own learning.




RavenMuse -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/16/2006 2:57:55 AM)

When the young lady who introduced me to the concepts of BDSM and D/s first raised the issue she thought she would have to start with me being the 'bottom'.... it lasted all of 10 seconds, just long enough for me to feel uncomfortable and flip her over to tie her to the bed instead.

I used to think that maybe, having experience as bottom/sub might have helped. However as I have aged and became more comfortable in who I am and what I do I came to a realisation. It wouldn't matter wether I had gone through the motions or not, I will never experience what a bottom feels, I will never experience what a sub or slave feels... because I am Dominant. I am not wired that way, I don't react that way, I don't have those emotional responces within me.

Maybe it would hold true with a switch, it doesn't hold true for someone who is Dominant and ONLY Dominant. We will never be able to 'share' the experience, we learn through observation and communication.



Focus50 -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/16/2006 4:08:57 AM)

Depends on your own attitudes and perspectives....  If you embrace BDSM as an opportunity to explore kink and role playing etc, sure, why not try both sides.
 
But if you're like me and regard "Dominant" as an integral part of your sexuality, then NO, I don't, won't nor ever have submitted to the will of another.  I didn't choose my "role" anymore than I chose to be male or hetero, I was chosen!  D/s is not something I play at nor do I view it like a career choice or apprenticeship. 
 
Does one hafta trial a gay experience before "deciding" they're hetero?  Lol, maybe some do/did but I'm one of those who always knew what he wanted and needed and submitting was never on any "to do" list....
 
Focus.



MstrssPassion -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/16/2006 5:10:39 AM)

In regards to being a dominant/master & experiencing the bottom side of things, I couldn't have expressed it any better than Mercnbeth did when he said the following:
 
It gives you sensation, but you won't glean the mental, emotional, or even physical way the sensation is processed by a submissive or masochist. I don't believe it's possible anymore than as a man I can tell you how a woman processes sex. The sensation is processed in a totally different manner mentally as much as it is physiologically. Genders have different processing mechanisms. Dominants and submissives also process the same sensation differently.
 
I will add that bottoming (masochistic tendencies) doesn't define an individual's role to be that of a dominant or a submissive. Same thing for topping (sadistic tendencies). Too often people immediately feel that a masochist/bottom is & can only be a submissive... not true.

I also tell people that you are only going to be the dominant (or submissive for that matter) that you ARE. It is often debated but I am a firm believer that these roles of dominants & submissives are natural tendencies. We can explore them all in much different ways, experience things from every angle imaginable but in the end we are true to the core of our being. Don't be too worried about living up to another's perception of what you should be or how you get there, just be true to yourself. The only thing you miss out on when being true to yourself is being miserable when you attempt to be anything else.







JessieMe -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/16/2006 9:52:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beenwhipped

I posted this well aware that there would be many different ways to answer, i have noticed that understanding what others have through, will help me understand what it is that i am going through. not that i am going to take one person's answer and try to model myself from them



<laffin> Our family was talking about this very thing last night when Sir mentioned that He had allowed someone to put him in bondage one time. He did NOT feel in any way shape fashion or form what a submissive feels in bondage. All He thought about was how to get out and put the "Top" in HIS bondage. (obviously not what is going on in the mind of a submissive in bondage LOL)



LadyTantalize -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/16/2006 11:14:14 AM)

Well, you got my two cents then, eh!

*g*



LcM -> RE: starting on bottom? (8/17/2006 7:18:07 AM)

Right from the start, I found that I liked the sensation of pain, but also wanted to be the one holding the flogger as well. The start for me was rather confusing, I became a sub to a felgling Domme where I learned a better sence of what it ment to stay in one mindset. She also learned from me what it was to be a Switch, and later became my sub. It was a unique situation that lasted several years. Now I find that I am at my best when I Top. I think the varied experaince has made me a better teacher, but not a better Top. To each thier own, everyone takes a slightly differnt path to find thier own way.



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