RE: Punishments and Discipline

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sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 12:56:32 PM)
In Our relationship I am disciplined when I have done something wrong. Punishment is something I get for pleasure.

onestandingstill -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 1:44:20 PM)
To me dicipline is a teaching tool to teach me restraint, control, authority or ways to better control myself. Punishment is what happens when I do something I know is against the rules either out of defiance or neglect of my duties. To me both are usefull tools, but different approaches to the same ends. Suzanne

gentlethistle -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 2:17:29 PM)
I am often threatened with a physical punishment for a mistake I have made, but it is seldom actually carried out. On the rare occasions that I do receive a specific corporal punishment, rather than just a spanking in play, I rarely know what specific thing it is actually 'for'. Frankly, I find this a bit confusing and de-motivating and have said so. Laura

Slipstreme -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 3:06:01 PM)
quote: submissives (not bottoms),..their headspace, is what makes the punishment. This is so true. I, personally, can't understand using pain as punishment, but I do use it, because it works. It works, because to my slave, it is punishment based on context. She and I are both masochistic, but I know if I were in her place the day I did punish her, it could not, and would not work as a deterrant, because I have no submissive ties to the pain or the person. I am finding it rather interesting to see how our relationship dynamics changes our perceptions of pain on the recieving, and even the giving end. She is an unwilling sadist, doing it, only because she knows I need her to, and I am a very willing sadomasochist. I still feel guilt knowing there was a part of me that enjoyed the act of punishing her, because I really didn't want it to be punishment and I don't think I should have enjoyed any of it. Play scenes, which do often have the same severity, though, I dont have any problem with. How she is punished has been covered in another thread in the Ask a Master forum.

Littlepita -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 3:32:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer The purpose of Discipline is to teach, the purpose of punishment is to attone and close the book on an infraction. Punishment can be a part of discipline. That is well put and fits what we believe to be true for us. My Dom disciplines me by controlling my behavior. This is done in many ways that are usually subtle. Like I am not allowed to open doors. We have a nightly talk about the day every night with me sitting at his feet. In the morning after my shower he gives me a full body check and helps me dress. These things and many others teach me submission with grace and keep him the focus of my life. I have been punished twice in the early days of our relationship. Both times were for lying. My punishment was terrible but no more than knowing how I had hurt and disappointed my Sir. I try very hard not to make those mistakes anymore. We do live by the three strikes your out sort of approach. If I do something wrong I am warned twice and the third time will be punished according to what fits the crime.

Evanesce -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 4:18:04 PM)
quote: The purpose of Discipline is to teach, the purpose of punishment is to attone and close the book on an infraction. Punishment can be a part of discipline. According to Webster, punishment IS discipline. However, it is but one of three definitions of "discipline." It was the other two to which I referred when I made my observation. In this household, discipline is first established. Then, should it become lacking, punishment ensues, in order to enforce the discipline. This is why I say discipline is control of self, while punishment is correction of a wrong. It's how we differentiate between the two.

BeingChewsie -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 4:59:02 PM)
I am corrected when something I have done is not what he wanted or if my behavior is displeasing. Tone and demeanor are probably the two most important things to my owner. My tone needs to always be respectful, mindful of my place in relation to him on the food chain of life, and never a hint of dismissiveness or peevishness. I can get bitchy when I'm tired and sometimes he is like a pitbull, sinks his teeth in on an issue and doesn't let go..just bites harder. Sometimes I have a brain fog and I will raise my voice a bit or get snippy. He corrects for that immediately, sometimes with just a verbal correction of "Watch yout tone" or "Don't you get snippy with me". Sometimes it is faster and easier for him to just slap me..both are my one warning shot across the bow. Simply reminders that I'm treading close to the line. I see that as discipline. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I have to ask a question that is related to a thread in the Master forum Are you disciplined or punished if you have done something "wrong" in your dynamic? Do you see a difference between being disciplined or being punished? If there is a difference, what is it in your mind? Im not going to put any of my own input on this at first, or maybe not at all, I am just curious.

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 5:52:17 PM)
There is a huge differnce between punishment and disipline yes. Punishment is when I have been misbehaving and I was wrong and did something wrong. he is displeased with me and has to take precious time out of our time to deal with my wrong doing. Disipline can be a regular part of training and growth and is not done because I have messed up or I was wrong or he was disapointed in me. and having disipline can be to keep yu from doing things wrong, to train you to keep you ontrack, IE I have disipline to do things on my own, or he instills disipline in me to not slack off. Disipline is quote: punished if you have done something "wrong" in your dynamic? Do you see a difference between being disciplined or being punished? If there is a difference, what is it in your

ownedgirlie -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 6:02:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie I am corrected when something I have done is not what he wanted or if my behavior is displeasing. Tone and demeanor are probably the two most important things to my owner. My tone needs to always be respectful, mindful of my place in relation to him on the food chain of life, and never a hint of dismissiveness or peevishness. I can get bitchy when I'm tired and sometimes he is like a pitbull, sinks his teeth in on an issue and doesn't let go..just bites harder. Sometimes I have a brain fog and I will raise my voice a bit or get snippy. He corrects for that immediately, sometimes with just a verbal correction of "Watch yout tone" or "Don't you get snippy with me". Sometimes it is faster and easier for him to just slap me..both are my one warning shot across the bow. Simply reminders that I'm treading close to the line. I see that as discipline. Great post and one I can relate to well.

MasterNdorei -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/17/2006 11:15:55 PM)
Archer hit the nail on the head as it is in Master's house. Discipline is what is used to guide us when we innocently make a mistake, or without malace or forethought have failed to please Him. It helps us realize what is being defined. Punishment is reserved for the times we have crossed what has already been defined.

BrokenDoll -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/18/2006 1:45:11 AM)
Honestly punishment and Discipline say different things in the dictionary but personaly I think it is semantics... And yes the main reason that I am here is because I seek a discapline relationship ( guess you can say Im a bottom) so in a sence it is very different when I get Spanked as punishment then when I guess a slave does as a slave is always suposed to be obedient. I dont know iffin that made any sence at all

juliaoceania -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/18/2006 8:06:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrokenDoll Honestly punishment and Discipline say different things in the dictionary but personaly I think it is semantics... And yes the main reason that I am here is because I seek a discapline relationship ( guess you can say Im a bottom) so in a sence it is very different when I get Spanked as punishment then when I guess a slave does as a slave is always suposed to be obedient. I dont know iffin that made any sence at all If they say different things then how could it be semantics? I experience one and not the other. I am never punished, but he is disciplining me all the time.

LASub4Real -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/20/2006 11:09:47 PM)
I think that technically, discipline is punishment, but with the intent to improve the recipient. However, non-technically, I think that punishment tends to be more serious than discipline. I have had only one experience that I can relate along these lines. And no, this is not going to be a stupid malesub fantasy. I give you my word that I tell this truly as it happened. I met a Mistress on another site. So we were emailing each other and decided that we should meet and everthing was going well. So one day she asks me a direct question that I didn't even try to answer. I guess I had got to comfortable, and just let it slip. So this happened to be a pet peeve of hers, and she ripped me a new one in her email reply. I appolgised profusely and attempted to console her with my assurances, but she was...inconsolable. So that's when things took a turn because instead of her eventually accepting my appology and moving on, she told me that I had to be punished. Of course, I thought...so you were going to spank me anyway. But she made it very clear that this was not a game. We were scheduling our first Starbucks meeting for sizing up. she told me to cut a "switch" which would be used for my punishment and bring it to our meeting. Of course, there were many threats made about how it better be a substantial switch, not some skinny twig... I won't go into all of that. So we met, she asked me to put the switch on the table, she approved it and took it with her when she left. We made an appointment for the next week. I have to admit that I had never been taken in hand quite like that, and I actually couldn't sleep very well for night on end, waiting for the day to come. I was a combination of fears and anticipation. So when the day came and we met, she did use the switch as she promised. OK, so I need to say that for those who romanticize about this sort of thing that it really HURT like hell, no warm up, no prep, just whack whack, whack! I was NOT turned on or in "sub space," I was wriggling, and twisting, and close to tears. And it just went on and on and luckily I was gagged because I could have woken up the world. Now, she did comfort me afterward and I'm glad that she did, because if she hadn't I would never have come back, for sure! As it was, that was the only "punishment" on that level that I ever got, but it built a very interesting dynamic between us. I REALLY did fear her punishments and when I was obeying her on something, it was motivated by real fear. She had a kind of real control over me that was... well I don't know... it was real and that made it very potent and very sexy. I don't think I've ever had that since then. In retrospect, I think that She was looking for a chance to exert that kind of fear and authority over me and used my lmissed question as an excuse to do what she had planned to do all along. But my point is that aside from a strict definition, I'd call that first ass whipping a Punishment. LAsub

Owned1 -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/20/2006 11:27:44 PM)
I think there is a fine line between the two, perhaps semantics. That being said I would suggest it is up to those in the dynamic would need to clarify these two term at the start of the dynamic. For those reading who are new this is why it is strongly suggested to take things slowly in the begining. Unless you truly know and understand each other there can be major issues around communication. Owned

maledave777 -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/22/2006 4:06:09 AM)
I am new at this. These are my thoughts about discipline and punishment. I agree with littleone35. I believe that discipline is a tool. The Master or Mistress uses discipline to help grow in their relationship with the sub or slave. The sub or slave needs to submit to their Master or Mistress. A sub or slave does something they should have not done or something they should have done. The Master or Mistress will use punishment to help corrected their behavior. This will help restored the relationship.

RavenMuse -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/22/2006 4:30:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie Tone and demeanor are probably the two most important things to my owner. He corrects for that immediately, sometimes with just a verbal correction of "Watch yout tone" or "Don't you get snippy with me". Sometimes it is faster and easier for him to just slap me..both are my one warning shot across the bow. Simply reminders that I'm treading close to the line. I see that as discipline. Attitude, yep VITALY important and one of the main areas where I have to enforce discipline. My 'warning shots' tend to be verbal with the tone of My voice changing. My girl definatly recongnises it when My voice gets lowered, the words clipped and harsh (Makes it easy to maintain even in a vanilla enviroment). she knows from experience not to ignore those warning shots, they are indicators that she is heading in a direction that WILL dissapoint Me. As for 'punishment', if her arse is getting slapped, she knows we are still on safe 'fun' ground. It is play, nothing more. If it is "we need to DISCUSS your behaviour", she knows it isn't fun, lines have been crossed (Or came close to being) and there is a problem needing to be addressed.The sort of problem that better NOT continue to BE a problem!

Mavis -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/22/2006 10:23:26 AM)
There is only one topic or behavior that seems to haunt me, and He's taken me thru myriad levels of correction, discipline, and punishment over it. i interrupt. One of the problems is it is perfectly allowed, even expected, that i do so with HusDom.. and i am trying to adopt new rules, but it's more out of my habits choice list than my will choice list. (That's another topic) When i do so, there are 3 responses: Correction: "Are you going to "let" Me finish?" Discipline: "I see you've decided to drive, I'm not riding" ..click, hang up, or walk away. Punishment: i will get plenty of time and attention, but NONE of the topics i enjoy. He will discuss His interests and schedule and the color of house paint ad nauseum, for hours. This has gone on for several days. In a pause, i might say something like "i went to the store and saw somethig You'd really like.." and gotten the reply "That's nice. As I was saying..." He knows this drives me insane. It's like the ignoring tact, only He does it in such a hands-on manner, i can't complain i'm being ignored, or my spirit unfed, just being fed a lot of lettuce. His reasoning is sound.. "Why should your misbehavior deprive Me of my slaves attention, I will have My due, and if you're not happy with the topic, so very sad for You. i enjoy discussing My things. Besides, you can't interrupt on topics you don't have as much passion about." i would almost prefer a quick light face-slap or swat that would get my attention and be over with quickly, but i don't think i really would learn anything from that except to be on guard. A good horrible spanking might do me well, but He says His choice to do it this way is two-fold.. it is working, and it is working at a deeper level even if slower. Now, the lightbulb goes on right away if the convos seem to be suspiciously one-sided and ask "Am i being punished?"

juliaoceania -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/22/2006 1:40:50 PM)
This sounds like something that Sinergy would do, and I do not see it as punishment...smiles. Punishment to me is punitive with retribution aspects, I do not see what you have experienced as punitive.

Jasmyn -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/22/2006 3:21:19 PM)
quote: taken in hand LAsub yum ...not at the predicament you found yourself in ...lol although that was kinda hot ... but that she took control of the moment and ran with it ... taking you in hand like that ...nicely done ...

Mavis -> RE: Punishments and Discipline (8/22/2006 5:53:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania This sounds like something that Sinergy would do, and I do not see it as punishment...smiles. Punishment to me is punitive with retribution aspects, I do not see what you have experienced as punitive. Julia, i think i understand. i don't want to put words in your mouth, but i gather you feel any corrective measures that are productive aren't unpleasent, as long as the outcome is positive, and i would so very much agree with that sentiment. i do still see that one thing as punishment, because i do in fact loose something, or experience some measure of misery until my behavior changes. So that Is punitive to me, although i don't think of that as a negative, punitive in such a case isn't wrong or inappropriate. If i'm behaving in a displeasing way, the penalty of missing out on the warm fuzzies is a proper natural result.. and definately forces me to whoa-nellie and straighten up. In the case of a verbal correction, i don't "loose" anything, the interaction dynamic stays the same, i'm just reminded or informed about something, then W/we carry on. So then i don't see it as punitive. i hope that makes more sense to you, the difference of how i use the two words. i guess i just see "punishment" as correction with loss/penalty.. and "correction" as penalty-free. ---> appended: i seem to NEED both to really grow, and i'm thankful i get them in balanced measure with tenderness. (Edited to add the appended section)

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