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The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 4:47:30 AM

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Hello All,
I'm looking to see others thought on the signifance of collaring a submissive. I've collared a submissive I've been seeing for a while. I am attached to female partner who is not Bisexual, but the submissive is. They are both comfortable with each other. The issue is this...I recently found out through mutual friends the submissive has sought and obtained a collar from another. This other person was unaware she was collared to me. She is single, on her own, and I do not have a 24/7 relationship with her. I'm somewhat distressed she was dishonest about it more than anything else. I really like her, but to me the collar is a commitment to one. I know she has other sexual partners, which is not a concern. But I'm not sure she should be collared to me any longer. Any thoughts?

< Message edited by cpl4dsfun -- 8/21/2006 4:48:18 AM >

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 5:05:56 AM

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Did you discuss with her what your significance was toward your collar? Did she understand that by accepting the collar that she was no longer available to seek out another's collar?

If these two issues were not discussed then she may have very well treated the collar like you have treated her multiple sex partners... she is at liberty to have as many as she wishes.

What ever the case may be it is obvious that she does not hold the same regard for your collar as you do.

Before I would jump to say anything about what should be done now... the what should have been done beforehand would need to be addressed.

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MstrssPassion

(in reply to cpl4dsfun)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 5:12:28 AM

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We did discuss the collar and the fact when she was wearing it that she belonged to me. She agreed to seek permission before playing with others. The asking to play with others is simply for her safety. She is single and likes to have vanilla sex with other bi women. Could I dominate her without her being collared, yes. But the dishonesty is really bothering me. It takes tiome to mee compatible people, and I'm not going to just throw away the time spent getting to know her and train her. I have not yet had a discussion with her other master (married and hiding it).

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 6:07:28 AM

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First of all it doesn't sound as though she has attached the same value to the collar as you have. I see collars as having deep sginificance, but it only means what the two say it means. For me it would mean I was going to share my life with someone, for the two of you it may mean something totally different. Everyone has different needs.

I will say that if she has outright lied about these things it would make me think twice about keeping her. You may have much invested in this person, but if you keep her you will just be investing more, and it doesn't sound like a good investment if she is a liar when it comes to deceving people about being your submissive. I do not have any use for lying personally, and it is a deal breaker for me, all though others will differ.

I read that she is seeing a married man, and you think that telling this person that she is collared to you will change something. Good luck with that! It could very well just push her to make a choice between you if he wants that, you really do not know what has been going on between them. If he is willing to cheat on his wife, why would he have any respect for a collar? They sound like they deserve each other. They are both being dihonest with people that care for them... not someone I would want to invest in at all.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cpl4dsfun)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 6:19:03 AM

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There is only one question here I would need resolving before I made a decision.

Was the incident caused by a lack of communication? Or did she understand what was expected of her and chose to do it anyhow?

If the former then further communication may well bring about a solution, if it is the latter then I would consider trust to be irrevicably broken, the relationship ended and wether the collar was formaly returned or not she would no longer be mine and frankly is not worth looking at again.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to cpl4dsfun)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 6:23:54 AM

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Thanks for your input. The married guy found out indirectly, as did I about this from someone who knows both of us. I'm not going to confront him. Forcing her to choose between us is a certain no-win situation. But making a decision without all the facts is also a bad idea. But her honesty is the issue here. It's hard to trust someone once you have been betrayed.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 6:32:17 AM

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She was made aware and agreed the collar was a commitment between us. And if she wanted to do something with others, permission would have to be sought from me first. This was for her protection. We did not have a written contract, but in hindsight, having her sign an agreement would have been better.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 6:51:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpl4dsfun

She was made aware and agreed the collar was a commitment between us. And if she wanted to do something with others, permission would have to be sought from me first. This was for her protection. We did not have a written contract, but in hindsight, having her sign an agreement would have been better.

It sounds as if you've already decided your course of action and are now making excuses to justify what you know in your heart to be true. If you want to remain with the woman do so. But be honest about it and don't delude yourself into believing different options would have altered the outcome. If the woman was determined to see another, collar or not, that was going to happen. No amount of negotiation, adornment, or agreements will change this. At this point it appears you need to be more concerned about what you can live with and how willing you are to forgive and move forward. Best of luck.

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

(in reply to cpl4dsfun)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 7:16:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpl4dsfun

She was made aware and agreed the collar was a commitment between us. And if she wanted to do something with others, permission would have to be sought from me first. This was for her protection. We did not have a written contract, but in hindsight, having her sign an agreement would have been better.

It sounds as if you've already decided your course of action and are now making excuses to justify what you know in your heart to be true. If you want to remain with the woman do so. But be honest about it and don't delude yourself into believing different options would have altered the outcome. If the woman was determined to see another, collar or not, that was going to happen. No amount of negotiation, adornment, or agreements will change this. At this point it appears you need to be more concerned about what you can live with and how willing you are to forgive and move forward. Best of luck.

porcelaine

Agreed. It would SOUND as though she simply likes the IDEA of being collared/protected/in control of, but doesn't really want that commitment yet, or is ready to take that step.

So let her do what she wants, because she obviously will anyway and this way you can both go find your bliss.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 7:52:05 AM

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It took me 2.5 years to collar my sub because I wanted to make sure we were compatible and we both had a clear understanding of what a committment it is. he is only the second sub I've ever collared over many years.

I've made it quite clear that I have rules and one of those rules is NEVER lie to me, honesty is paramount in any relationship. It sounds to me that your girl likes the *idea* of the collar and what it symbolizes but she isn't ready to really commit to it in whole.

~Lashra and slutjack

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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

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RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 8:33:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpl4dsfun

Thanks for your input. The married guy found out indirectly, as did I about this from someone who knows both of us. I'm not going to confront him. Forcing her to choose between us is a certain no-win situation. But making a decision without all the facts is also a bad idea. But her honesty is the issue here. It's hard to trust someone once you have been betrayed.

I fail to understand why you would even consider giving her the power to decide... much less what facts you feel you are missing at this point.

So often you hear submissives talk about earning their "gift" (cough-cough) I would pose that this girl needs to learn that she should earn a collar.

With no uncertain terms it should be discussed what exactly a collar means & what is expected to earn it/keep it before there is an exchange.

If there is no trust, then essentially you have no relationship. That material object holds no value or meaning outside what the heart & mind defines it to be.

I can't tell you what to do... that is your choice. All I can say is if this were the case with me, that the premise of the collar was clearly explained & understood by both parties & the premise was not upheld then the collar will be removed. If I personally do not remove it or I am not offered a chance to remove it... screw it, it is as meaningless to me as the person who has it. Once removed there is no begging for its return. I'm hard but this is what works for me. Consistency is something I hold very high & if a person is not able to be consistent in their actions or in their respect of the structure that I set then we have nothing to pursue.

You speak of losing the time & effort you already invested in this one... it seems that it was already time wasted or you wouldn't feel betrayed. Sometimes we just have to cut our losses & move on, learn from mistakes & strive to not repeat them.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 8/21/2006 8:36:54 AM >

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MstrssPassion

(in reply to cpl4dsfun)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 8:51:59 AM

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This is one of the issues with a "velcro" collar, in which a submissive can say one thing to one and something else to another.
Perminent collars that cannot be removed and a general wide respect for such collars could easily have avoided this situation.

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Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to cpl4dsfun)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 9:19:15 AM

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I would like to thank all of you for your comments and opinions on the situation.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 9:24:04 AM

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A collar is only as permenant as the two people it involves makes it. You can't force it to be premanent if the sub/slave decides it isn't.

To the Op: Kick the bitch to the curb. She's lied, not only to you but to the other person who's collared her. And at least one fourth party knows about it so you can but others will as well. She obviously didn't take the collar as seriously as you did. She was a waste of time and spending anymore time on her will be just more waste. Time to move on to better people.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 10:35:13 AM

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She lied to you, she lied to him, (see a pattern here?), other people now know you've been played and have no actual control over what your sub does. . If what you want to do is justify keeping her, then why bother just do it. The fact that the other person is married and hiding it is a side diversion you don't even need to get into. So they are lying to each other, what does that have to do with your situation? .

Are you actually foolish enough to think a written contract would have changed her actions? If her word means nothing you think a piece of paper that has no actual legal standing would have altered her thoughts? You mentioned that it is hard to find compatible people and you don't want to throw away the time you've spent training her. Looking at the situation, Do you actually think you are compatible? You certainky seem to have a different idea of what a commitment is. Lose the time spent training (I would say if she just hopped into anothers collar the training didn't actually go to well) or enjoy the humiliation and agravation she is going to bring you.

As Mr D said, "Kick the bitch to the curb", unless what you really want is drama filled nonsense.

K

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 11:13:44 AM

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What is your definition of 'a while'. You've been seeing her for 'a while'. Is that actually a significant amount of time? Is it enough time for you to understand and know enough about each other to know whether collaring is right for you both. You collared this submissive but you didn't say if she wanted this and accepted it willingly. You say a collar is a commitment to one. Well clearly it's not if you're happy for her to have other partners if you allow it and if you yourself are not committed to one. My definition of commited to one is that there would be no-one else ever.

If it were a commitment to one then you would not allow her to to have other sexual partners without you being there imo. Perhaps she regarded this as an issue and felt the meaning of the collar was lessened because of it. You say she actively sought out this other man's collar. How do you know that? She told you? Did she actively seek out your collar or did you decide it was time and maybe not give her the opportunity or voice to be able to say differently.

You also say you are attached to another, who isn't bisexual and i'm also getting the inference that she's not submissive either. Presumably your submissive doesn't engaged in activeties with the two of you then? Perhaps she regarded this to mean that she was only your part time submissive when you felt like it and only when she was wearing your collar. Some people do play on the understanding that while they wear a collar they belong, and when it is removed they do not. Who chooses when the collar can be removed, do you remove it when you don't see her or is it her choice when/if it can be removed?

A collar to me is a very deep bond and connection and i could never accept one on a part time basis or believe there was any commitment behind it from someone who wanted me to be comited all the time yet wasn't himself. I know others here do not see a relationship as being between 2 people only, but i do and that would be my point of view in the situation. From the sounds of it neither of you are particularly commited to each other.

I would say there was a distinct lack of something here, either in the original agreement on accepting this collar and if this was something she sought and wanted or was actually chosen for her when she wasn't ready to accept, or in the trust that was placed in her by you, or even you by her. Are you absolutely sure her trust in you didn't go awry somewhere along the lines? Did she assume that accepting this collar would mean an alternation in your separate situations? Did she willingly accept and want this collar from you? Do you feel it would have been better written because there is something that was not clear by the verbal agreement/discussions?

Have you given her the opportunity to explain herself? I'm not suggesting there are acceptable excuses or that you should listen to excuses, but if she could explain why then you would have a better understanding of why this meant so little to her or if there was a break down in comunication somewhere along the line which needs redressing.

Just my thoughts
gilly

(in reply to cpl4dsfun)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 11:22:52 AM

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To me, this sounds like pure disrespect&dishonesty and she isn't worth collaring at all!
..but who am I to judge..
and well....when it comes to her "master", I can't really call him much of a master when he can't even confront his wife and goes behind her back...let alone COLLARING somebody! guess since they're both dishonest it's just better let them be together.. I don't know, to me..this kind of dishonesty simply makes things not worth fighting for

(in reply to gillybean)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 2:48:58 PM

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What Mstrs Passion said. ;)
Gandalf

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RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 2:54:13 PM

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Strictly to the OP:
If you are not sure she should be collared to you anymore, then thats your answer. If you arent sure, then its time for the collar to come off. Wether it is true that she has one from smoeone else or not, that doubt means that your end of the realtionship is obviously not what it was or should be.
A collar is, as it was stated, only as lasting as the people who are involved mean it to be. If she sought out someone else, then obviously yours wasnt good enough. That would be an immedicate dismissal for me, but then again my pets seeking out another mistress at all without my persmission would be a dismissal as well.

DV

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I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to gandalf0297)

RE: The meaning of a collar - 8/21/2006 7:39:24 PM

subsa

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just one other thing to think about....it appears that this might be a relationship based on the sexual side of the bdsm lifstyle. i say this because you indicate involvement with another woman (vanilla) so i'm guessing she doesn't fullfill your needs in this area. although i'm new to the scene, i've learned quickly that much of the sexual dynamic in bdsm is based on trust. can she (your submissive) now trust you in those intense moments of a scene when you need to be in control? she broke your trust; what if your anger about this surfaces when she is most vulnerable to you? will you be able to control yourslf? like i said...just something to think about.....

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

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