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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/13/2004 5:05:37 PM

LadyBeckett

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*purrs* Sinergy, I would also love to have the recipe.

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/13/2004 11:25:35 PM

Voltare

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorOne

I may be mistaken in how I read this, but the first line I quoted seems to imply that she is serving because she is female and feels its a females place to serve. I personally disagree with those views and thats fine.

"Women should NEVER be the head of the house and wear the pants" along with the rest seems pretty expressive to me that she feels all women should be submissive to men.

I have no problem with people having differing opinions, often times it causes me to reevaluate my own stance on certain things and keeps me thinking. I certainly dont think that just because someones opinion is different from mine it is any less a valid one, but using words like 'NEVER' imply to me, that to her, anything other than male dominance and female submission is 'wrong'.

I really do see your point of view - you believe her opinion to be wrong. I'm in no way trying to suggest that you - either by virtue of being a Moderator, or simply from a participants standpoint - should not express a differing opinion. Her opinion is in direct opposition to how you view your life. Personally, my opinion is somewhere in the middle - I think women have their purposes and roles in the family, but by no means should they be confined to such if it does not suit their desires.

The issue isn't that I think her opinion is wrong or not - but rather that she believes her opinion to be true for all people or not. In my view, there's nothing wrong with stating that 'all people should.....'

For example: I, personally, believe all people should shower once a day. It promotes good hygine, and makes it easier for everyone around us in terms of smell, appearence, etc.

Few people would argue that point - but obviously there are people who feel that showering is wrong, that only baths work - or others still who shower once a month or less, because of religious, health, or other reasons (god knows why, I'm sure they have them.)

In stating that I believe all people should..... I leave myself open for an attack on what I said, and it's up to me to defend my point of view. It is the -expression- of this view that I believe I am entitled to - no matter how wrong it may be perceived.

From what I read in this thread, comments like

quote:

Just because you feel a certain way it doesnt mean that all people should feel the same way or feel comfortable or natural in the same situations. What you may think is totally abnormal for you may not be for someone else.

and

quote:

I assume you want comments even from those you clearly insulted.

are particularly fair. Just because she didn't wrap the opinion she expressed in terms of "well, in my view of the world all women should be submissive to all men, etc etc" to sugarcoat the point, doesn't make her point less valid, nor inherently offensive. On the contrary, I think it takes balls to offer an opinion that is - by all reasonable understandings - quite unpopular.

And with that, I'll close my unpopular post and move to something more pleasent... like oral sex (grin.)

Stephan

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 6:42:14 AM

ModeratorOne

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quote:

I really do see your point of view - you believe her opinion to be wrong.

I dont agree with her opinion but I dont think its a matter of an opinion being right or wrong. An opinion is just that, an opinion. I was suggesting that she might want to be more open minded instead of feeling that there is only a 'one true way' for things to be done.
The attitude in which that opinion was expressed in.

Just like you may feel all people should shower daily if someone came to you and stated XYZ reason as to why they couldnt or shouldnt shower daily you might be open minded enough to hear their point of view and not lump all people into the same catagory.

I dont wash my hair daily because it dries it out. I wash my hair every other day instead.

I dont believe in absolutes when it comes to things like this. I always feel that there are exceptions, especially when it comes to someones sexual preferences and suggesting that someone broaden their horizons to allow other points of view in isnt stating that their opinion is wrong, but suggesting that there are other things out there as well and there is plenty of room for everyones opinion here.

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 7:34:37 AM

Voltare

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorOne

I dont agree with her opinion but I dont think its a matter of an opinion being right or wrong. An opinion is just that, an opinion. I was suggesting that she might want to be more open minded instead of feeling that there is only a 'one true way' for things to be done. The attitude in which that opinion was expressed in.

Without trying to argue semantics, I think what I've been fumbling to say was that her tone of voice was very assertive. As readers, we don't usually like to read such assertions about lifestyle choices, preferring to hear things wrapped in the guise of 'my feelings are' and 'I believe that'

For example, had masokissed phrased her original letter

quote:

HYPOTHETICAL LETTER

Sir,

it is my strong belief that "Serving" is NOT something one commits to doing like "painting nails". I believe it is a way of living, of always being available to act and do for a person, no matter what the request, it is always putting them first. In that context, i would prefer to serve the One i am with for the rest of my life in anyway He deems desireable. < Period >. Serving "sometime" isn't even possible in my mind, as i am female ALL of the time.

And no Sir, I firmly believe Women should NEVER be the head of the House and wear the pants... Unless the Man of the house can't/doesn't handle His responsibilities, then we are forced to take care of the responsibilities that they shrug off. So, while I think women need to be more aware of who and what they are, I think Men in this world need to step up to the plate.

Just my thoughts

l.

...I believe that the focus of the thread would have been less on her apparent intolerance to other points of view, and more on assertions she has made. If the only objection to what she says, is the way she says it (while I will concede is important in any communication) then perhaps we're all taking the bru-ha-ha a bit too seriously?

quote:

I dont believe in absolutes when it comes to things like this. I always feel that there are exceptions, especially when it comes to someones sexual preferences and suggesting that someone broaden their horizons to allow other points of view in isnt stating that their opinion is wrong, but suggesting that there are other things out there as well and there is plenty of room for everyones opinion here.

I don't believe in absolutes either. Ever. Not even one. But I never judge someone else harshly for their committment to their own beliefs in absolutes. Never. not once.

Stephan
(a little tongue in cheek)

< Message edited by Voltare -- 7/14/2004 7:35:54 AM >

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 7:56:17 AM

afmvdp

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Not quite sure how this went from Bettie Paige to Betty Crocker so damn fast.

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 8:14:12 AM

ModeratorOne

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The hypothetical letter changed nothing since

quote:

I firmly believe Women should NEVER be the head of the House and wear the pants

Adding the words I believe dont change that her views are still intolerant. I was aware it was only her opinion to begin with. I suggested that she may want to broaden her views on what she believes since there are always exceptions. The word never is what got to me and sugar coating it isnt going to change the fact that never is an absolutist term and appears to be intolerant of others views.

She certainly has the option to remain intolerant if she likes. Many people choose to and freely admit that they are intolerant to other views. It usually causes them problems when they try and interact with people whose views differ at some point down the line. A lot of head banging and fights could be avoided if people didnt hold such absolutist views. Of course its their choice to go down that road and thats fine by me too. Just not my recommendation.

quote:

If the only objection to what she says, is the way she says it (while I will concede is important in any communication) then perhaps we're all taking the bru-ha-ha a bit too seriously?

I agree.

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 8:33:47 AM

Sundew02

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I didn't see where the Dom got his idea that you liked to serve "sometime". But then I didn't see the need to demean the roles of male sub/slaves or the dominant women who enjoy them. I enjoy who and what I am, which is the head of the household. I see nothing unique in women ruling, even in the often referred to "good old days" there were women who ruled. It is the variety that makes life interesting, each has an essential place, none more valuable than the other. Tess

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 8:38:09 AM

Sundew02

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BTW, "wearing the pants" In this day and age, I don't see very many women, sub/slave, or domme running around town doing their errands in skirts. Tess

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 8:40:12 AM

afmvdp

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In regards to intolerance, I don't really believe that is what it comes down to or not. You are dealing with, in many cases, something a person has believed and stood up for and LIVED their entire lives. It is why a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian with views that are all so similar yet with minor differences in reality and yet they would rather slit their own throats then succumb to agreeing to another point of view. I admit, I am one of the ones who will speak My mind very freely and in return it seems as if I am trying to force my will and thoughts upon others which in these cases, I am not. I just speak with such all encompassing speech because to Me it IS all encompassing. Even adding the words "in My oppinion" or "in My belief" really won't make any of my views less "Extreme" as some people have said so I really believe that without censoring things to the umpteenth degree it is impossible to go without a little flare here and again when you are dealing with things so near and dear to a persons heart and soul as their very sexuality.

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 9:07:10 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

BTW, "wearing the pants" In this day and age, I don't see very many women, sub/slave, or domme running around town doing their errands in skirts. Tess

I am a male. I am a Dominant. I wear a kilt.

Look up the definition of a kilt in the dictionary and find the synonym is skirt.

Deal with it.

Sinergy

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 9:23:55 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

It is why a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian with views that are all so similar yet with minor differences in reality and yet they would rather slit their own throats then succumb to agreeing to another point of view

I am not sure I agree with this statement. Judaism is rather unlike Christianity and Mohammedism, although the latter two have great similarities.

My disagreement is I personally dont believe the problems in the Middle East relate to religion at all. I think that is a face painted on a situation in order to deflect how it is perceived away from the real problem.

In the Western world, with the development of agriculture, rise of city states, development of the printing press, etc., money was put in to making a better world for everybody. Schools were built, medical technology, philosophy, roads, etc. I suspect a lot of this comes from the ideas first laid out by the Ancient Greeks, then the Romans, etc. A similar thing happened in Asia to some extent.

In the Middle East, the locals never bothered to make life better for everybody and maintained their tribal allegiences. As T.E. Lawrence said (dont have the exact quote) "Until the Arabians put aside their tribal allegiances and unite, they will always be a little people, a silly people, barbarous, murderous, and cruel."

At the end of World War 2, the Jews wanted to leave Europe (easy to imagine why) and none of the allied states really wanted to give them a place to have as a Jewish state. So they were given guns and bulldozers and told to go ahead and build one in Palestine, or what is now Isreal. Then all of the neighbor Arab states were bullied by (primarily) the US into accepting this new state. Isreal, for the most part, has tended to act like the snot-nosed bratty kid down the block who bullies around the other children because they know if anybody beats them up their Big Brother will stomp on that other person's head.

The Arabs, for their part, have not bothered, with all their newfound wealth, to do anything to make life better for anybody else. Instead, they have upgraded their swords to small arms and RPGs and have continued to be the sort of people that T.E. Lawrence described.

I dont see anything in the situation in the Middle East that would give me the idea that this is a conflict over belief systems. It is about who has Power and who doesnt, as well as how that Power is used.

Just my opinion, could be wrong.

Sinergy

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 9:32:17 AM

Sundew02

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Sinergy, Wicked smile, I just went with a scottish friend to a gathering of the clans, no need to deal with it, heck I enjoyed it!!! and kept hoping for a really stiff breeze.
But to be a bit more serious, I did state daily routine. I wouldn't mind being BEHIND you (literally) if you were to say pick up that pebble off the floor over there. laughing. Sundew

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 10:00:14 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

Sinergy, Wicked smile, I just went with a scottish friend to a gathering of the clans, no need to deal with it, heck I enjoyed it!!! and kept hoping for a really stiff breeze.
But to be a bit more serious, I did state daily routine. I wouldn't mind being BEHIND you (literally) if you were to say pick up that pebble off the floor over there. laughing. Sundew

I keep wondering while doing leader spins if I am giving Mr. Tiny an introduction to the other dancers.

Sinergy

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 10:10:14 AM

Sundew02

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Well, it was a beautiful day while we walked and watched the events. I will say I didn't get any interesting views. I did frustrate my friend as she kept explaining the clan colors, motos etc, and I kept commenting on the nice legs. So more than likely you are just giving "Mr. Tiny" a bit of fresh air, without him getting a peek at the other dancers. Tess

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RE: Serving "sometime" - 7/14/2004 4:25:15 PM

topcat

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quote:

I am a male. I am a Dominant. I wear a kilt.

Let the wind blow high ,
let the wind blow low,
though the streets in my kilt I'll go-
All the lassies say "HELLO!_
Donald where's your trousers!?"

[Traditonal Belfast street song from the time of the occupation by 'the ladies from hell', aka, the Black Watch.]

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