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[Poll]

Money/Prostitution/Experience

I have only online experience.

7% (2)

I have been to a couple of munches.

0% (0)

I have been active in my local BDSM community for less than 6 months.

7% (2)

I have been active in my local BDSM community for less than 1 year.

0% (0)

I have been active in my local BDSM community for 1-2 years.

3% (1)

"" for more than two but less than 5 years.

7% (2)

I've been playing r/t privately for less than a year but not publicly.

7% (2)

I've been playing r/t privately for 1-3 years but not publicly.

22% (6)

I've been playing r/t privately for more than 3 years - not publicly.

37% (10)

I was trained in a euro house, from sub to "Grand Dom/me" 20 yrs ago.

7% (2)

Total Votes : 27

(last vote on : 2/9/2008 10:04:58 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 12:33:07 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
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This poll seeks to determine the real-time experience level of those who believe that women who accept money for domination are prostitutes.

The default assumption for answering this poll is that you believe that domination for money is always or usually some form of prostitution.

Thanks for your participation.

< Message edited by MizSuz -- 1/2/2005 12:35:03 PM >

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 1:40:56 PM

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

quote:

The default assumption for answering this poll is that you believe that domination for money is always or usually some form of prostitution.

Madame-

We discussed this the other day, while I enjoyed your hospitaility, didn't we? I'd say that like prostitution, there is an element of not so much paying for the service, but for paying for the lack of relationship/obiligation/whatever - I think I phrased it that we really get paid to go away afterwards.

as I think of it, 'prostitution' is a slippery term. I could argue either way- is a massuse a prostitute? what about a stripper- or a psychotherapist?

And of course, it begs the question of what client is veiwing it as- are they looking for the phyiscal sensation? the ego gratification? the psychological value of the cathrsis?

Do they see the woman? or the 'life support system for the whip'?

I think the real question here is wheather the inteaction empowers or demeans the particpants.

As many answers as there are people...

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 1:48:47 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Yup yup yup. I completely agree with you that there is no pat answer. We're of a similar mind, although I could also argue the point that paying a femdom (or a male dom, for that matter) is by default paying for a provided service. It simply isn't always the case. I agree that people who haven't experienced it probably have a higher degree of "don't get it."

I was hoping those that DO think that way would answer the poll, though. I have a suspicion that most who feel that way suffer from lack of exposure. But it's just a suspicion and what would I know about it?

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to topcat)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 2:03:48 PM

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

This poll seeks to determine the real-time experience level of those who believe that women who accept money for domination are prostitutes.

So if we don't believe this we shouldn't answer the poll?

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 3:04:17 PM

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/22/2004
Status: offline

I guess one would have to define the term prostitution to work this one out. My dictionary (and yes its the English as opposed to American version) says prostitution relates to sexual intercourse offered for money or offering a talent for unworthy purposes.
Then is domination without intercourse considered an unworthy purpose - I would imagine there are different answers to this depending on who is reading it becuase we all dont think alike - which is a good thing becuase if we did there'd be no collarme.com :-)

Anyway hope that made some form of sense and for the record I dont believe its prostitution - its just offering a service as in any trade ........and Im damn sure if I could earn some money at it and wasnt such a pushover Id be there doing it :-) Hmmmm one way to get smile2cu to NZ i guess - first three sessions free *wink*

smiles
ruby

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 4:16:53 PM

Posts: 411
Status: offline

In New Zealand the provision of domination services, without sexual intercourse, would be considered Commercial Sexual Services, under S.4 of the Prostitution Reform Act 2003:-

quote:

``commercial sexual services'' means sexual services that—

(a) involve physical participation by a person in sexual acts with, and for the gratification of, another person; and

(b) are provided for payment or other reward (irrespective of whether the reward is given to the person providing the services or another person)

I think (a) is sufficiently broad to cover pro-dommes.

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 4:22:44 PM

Posts: 549
Status: offline

quote:

(a) involve physical participation by a person in sexual acts with, and for the gratification of, another person; and

But then you would have to look up "sexual act" and see how the law defines that. If someone goes in for a mummification session and pays for it. . .is that a "sex act?" If someone wants to be feminized and puts on makeup, a wig, and a dress. . .is that a "sex act?" Some come in for interrogation scenes. . .is that a "sex act?"

That Reform Act still makes the issue clear as mud.

J

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to Paulnz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 4:52:09 PM

Posts: 411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

quote:

(a) involve physical participation by a person in sexual acts with, and for the gratification of, another person; and

But then you would have to look up "sexual act" and see how the law defines that. If someone goes in for a mummification session and pays for it. . .is that a "sex act?" If someone wants to be feminized and puts on makeup, a wig, and a dress. . .is that a "sex act?" Some come in for interrogation scenes. . .is that a "sex act?"

That Reform Act still makes the issue clear as mud.

The law is new and so there is no Case Law to look up how ' sexual acts ' are defined.

However it is not as murky as you might think. The courts will most likely look at the contract. The sexual act would be wrapped up in that contract. The law makes contracts for Commercial Sexual Services ( CSS ) legal and if the contract or series of contracts are valid, it is most likely to be considered CSS. I certainly wouldn't want to be the defendant trying to argue that I didn't offer CSS when the other side will say - physical participation - sexual acts - gratification - case closed.

In support of this the court would no doubt note that most commercial premises offering domination services have obtained Operators Certificates for businesses of Prostitution ( s.34 ).

Local councils require businesses providing CSS to obey zoning requirements. In Christchurch this includes those operating dungeon type establishments. Any that don't locate within the zone, and are not grandfathered in, can expect to be closed down. The court would also look at how councils viewed domination services.

(in reply to GoddessJules)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 4:54:31 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

This poll seeks to determine the real-time experience level of those who believe that women who accept money for domination are prostitutes.

So if we don't believe this we shouldn't answer the poll?

Well, it would be helpful if it was a sampling of people who DID feel that way. I realize that some folks are going to answer it anyway.

Responses to the question are ALWAYS welcome, whether you believe the basic premise or not.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 4:57:14 PM

Posts: 549
Status: offline

So judging from the context clues of your post. . .Pro Domination *is* legal in New Zealand but it is defined as CSS? If this is the case. . .I would just chalk it up to semantics.

I've always thought New Zealanders to be "laid back" so I really couldn't picture "the law" going around trying to bust kinky people.

And by the way, happy new year! (Didn't you guys get it first?)

J

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to Paulnz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 5:15:21 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

In New Zealand the provision of domination services, without sexual intercourse, would be considered Commercial Sexual Services, under S.4 of the Prostitution Reform Act 2003:-

quote:

``commercial sexual services'' means sexual services that—

(a) involve physical participation by a person in sexual acts with, and for the gratification of, another person; and

(b) are provided for payment or other reward (irrespective of whether the reward is given to the person providing the services or another person)

I think (a) is sufficiently broad to cover pro-dommes.

Well thank you Paulnz, I was not aware of the New Zealand law and I certainly didn't ask for a specific country. Actually, there are places in the U.S. where domination would legally be called prostitution (thankfully not everywhere, though).

I was speaking more in terms of personal views, but the legal perspective is always welcome.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Paulnz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 5:19:19 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

It made sense and yes, I agree that the crux of the matter is definition which will be an individual kind of thing.

Thanks for participating.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to rubytuesday)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 5:21:26 PM

Posts: 411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

So judging from the context clues of your post. . .Pro Domination *is* legal in New Zealand but it is defined as CSS? If this is the case. . .I would just chalk it up to semantics.

I've always thought New Zealanders to be "laid back" so I really couldn't picture "the law" going around trying to bust kinky people.

And by the way, happy new year! (Didn't you guys get it first?)

That's all we are playing with, semantics. Is pro domination prostitution ? I tend to think it is.

In New Zealand that means it is legal. Prostitution has never been illegal, it was the surrounding activity that was ( the exception was the Massage Parlours Act. An act of prostitution there was illegal - funny cos they were all brothels !! ). In 2003 the Massage Parlours Act was repealed, and Brothelkeeping, Soliciting, and living off the earnings of a prostitute ( Pimping ) were removed from the Crimes Act.

What we have now is normal commercial practice. There are statutory requirements to follow. The contracts are legal and enforceable ( for instance a dom/me can be sued by a client ).

I think we are 17-22 hours ahead of you, depending on where in the USA. It is Summer, well it is meant to be but we haven't seen much of it yet.

(in reply to GoddessJules)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 5:32:56 PM

Posts: 411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

I was speaking more in terms of personal views, but the legal perspective is always welcome.

I realise you were looking for personal views and I answered the poll as I tend to think of pro-domination as prostitution.

I included a different legal perspective to help those reading through the thread, as I did, before answering the poll.

Here's another point - you'll find many brothels have an in-house domme. So are they Prostitutes ? The others in the brothel always consider the domme to be different and frightening and not quite a full member of the crew.

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 6:24:09 PM

Posts: 1005
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

Not a single choice fit me.

I've been active in the BDSM community off and on for over 7 years as mostly submissive/Top.

I've played r/t privately for about 9 as submissive, bottom, top, and dominant.

I've done pro - on a private level (read: not throwing out ads or having a site to attract clientle and not attaching that to myself in the scene) off and on for a total of approx. 3 years, but haven;t done it in the last 2-3 years as a dominant.

I've been living with my partner and dominant for around 7 years now as a switch.

Not sure where that would leave me. LOL.

But there ya go. *chortle*

~ShadeDiva

_____________________________

~ShadeDiva
My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to Paulnz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 6:25:59 PM

Posts: 1005
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that for three years before I hooked up with the actual scene and people I was practicing it off and on in my real life as well.

~ShadeDiva

_____________________________

~ShadeDiva
My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to ShadeDiva)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 6:42:34 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

I was speaking more in terms of personal views, but the legal perspective is always welcome.

I realise you were looking for personal views and I answered the poll as I tend to think of pro-domination as prostitution.

I included a different legal perspective to help those reading through the thread, as I did, before answering the poll.

Here's another point - you'll find many brothels have an in-house domme. So are they Prostitutes ? The others in the brothel always consider the domme to be different and frightening and not quite a full member of the crew.

Well then thank you for your participation!

To my mind fucking and sucking (if you'll pardon the crudity) need to take place for it to be prostitution. Granted, that's a very liberal definition but it's mine.

Do the dominas in your local brothels also fuck and suck?

I'm not at all surprised that the dominas in the brothel are considered 'fringe.' You should have seen the night a bunch of us took over a room at the Red Rooster in Vegas (a "private" swingers club). Half were so disconcerted they just couldn't stop saying 'that's just sick,' about a third were so intrigued it was like moths to a flame and the remaining just stood and stared quite speechless. Our group may have been the only group in the house that DIDNT do any fucking and sucking that night.

Wow, I haven't thought about that in a long time. Yet another good memory, tickled to the surface by a collarme post. Thanks!

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Paulnz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 7:11:07 PM

Posts: 411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

Well then thank you for your participation!

To my mind fucking and sucking (if you'll pardon the crudity) need to take place for it to be prostitution. Granted, that's a very liberal definition but it's mine.

Do the dominas in your local brothels also fuck and suck?

I'm not at all surprised that the dominas in the brothel are considered 'fringe.' You should have seen the night a bunch of us took over a room at the Red Rooster in Vegas (a "private" swingers club). Half were so disconcerted they just couldn't stop saying 'that's just sick,' about a third were so intrigued it was like moths to a flame and the remaining just stood and stared quite speechless. Our group may have been the only group in the house that DIDNT do any fucking and sucking that night.

Wow, I haven't thought about that in a long time. Yet another good memory, tickled to the surface by a collarme post. Thanks!

You've made a good point. I would answer by saying that generally - yes - the dommes fuck and suck. Huge generalisation. In a brothel they would be laughed out the door ( by other girls ) if they didn't fuck and suck, but ultimately the length of their client list would determine their status. I would guess that as brothels are attracting clientele with fucking and sucking in mind, that this would be the norm. The difference to my mind is the domme doesn't fuck and suck as part of the deal. The client only gets it if it pleases Mistress.

One local dungeon used to not offer full service, but was a licensed Massage Parlour. Under the new law they have begun advertising full service. The market is driving this trend.

I don't know how a service offering domination with no sexual contact would get on ( commercially and legally ). I have seen some attempts of late. I took it as trying to get around the new law, in not having to comply with the prostitution laws requirements.

One anecdote I can share is from Christchurch's largest brothel. The owner took out his dungeon and replaced it with an enlarged striptease room. The reason for this was that the dungeon was under utilised. During busy periods clients would refuse to go in and use it as a normal room, and many girls would refuse too - the place was so scary. On top of that the owner couldn't find a good pro-domme ( the one good pro-domme he did have he constantly argued with as she wouldn't take orders, in the end being made a kind of ' guest of the squadron ' ). So the space had to go.

Side Comment ? So which is better, the Red Rooster or the Green Door in Vegas ? I am told the website girlscummingwild.com is filmed at the Green Door and it has play spaces ?

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 7:46:58 PM

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/22/2004
Status: offline

-Paul - your comments were interesting to read - i guess maybe i just look at things a little more simply - just the way I am - but you made a lot of sense - I liked the anecdote about the strip club in Christchurch - just starting out and searching I am learning a little more each week about what goes on in our wee city.....................

smiles
ruby

(in reply to Paulnz)

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/2/2005 8:09:31 PM

Posts: 411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rubytuesday

smiles
ruby

My motto is ' lowering the moral tone of Christchurch '

(in reply to rubytuesday)

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