RE: Do manners cost?

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HouseofBear -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 8:19:07 PM)
Some seem to believe it is a great effort on their part to utilize good manners. Luckily online we have something we do not have in real life....the delete button. Lady Ursa

SusanofO -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 8:23:04 PM)
Thnaks. I see lots of people in general (Masters and Dominants, too, certainly) on this site who have nice manners. But, I think there might be some who misconstrue what it takes to come across to someone intelligent as being Dominant. To me, it's somebody who knows who they are, and what they are about. It doesn't really take a brusque manner to get that confidence across - but maybe it's just me...(but I know it's not just me, because I know you and lots of other folks probably think so, too). Not to mention that - even if a person is submissive - if a man is wanting a relationship (or even just a scene) with them - don't they think that person will need to be attracted to them somewhat? What would be more attractive about being verbally beaten over the head by someone else? Why would that make anyone "want them more" - at least if they didn't know that person at all? But - I sounds like I am whining (maye I am. I'll stop). I am wondering how their thought process works in some of these guys when I see this happen, though. - Susan

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 8:23:30 PM)
quote: I wonder how often, an extremely brusque manner of dealing with others (particularly submissives, perhaps) is mistaken by men who are relatively "new" to this whole realm of bdsm, as being more "Domly" or "Masterly" than just treating them like human beings - or like a friend, perhaps ? Well, for one it is not confined to men. I have been told often that the majority of Dommes some of my sub contacts have been in touch with forget their manners quickly as well. From what I have seen, and this is personal experience. There are some people out there that think that attaching a title to their name, being it Master, Mistress, Goddess, Sir, or whatever, mean that they no longer have to be polite to a submissive person beasue they are superior. These also tend to be newbies who have most of their knowledge from what they ahve read on the net or seen in porns. Most of us that are lifestyle tend to keep our manners about us. Most, not all. Like any other group of people, there ar a few who are just brusque with everyone. Personally, I try and be polite all the time. Unless someone starts with me I will not ruffle their feathers. My 2 cents DV

amayos -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 8:23:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO I don't want to start a "whining" thread, or beat this to death, but - maybe this thread is as good a place as any to state (like this sentiment hasn't been expressed before, hehe) that, if anything, an intelligent submissive may well see this kind of behavior as the opposite - a lack of self-control, kind of silly, and maybe just plain rude. It is silly and rude. How can a girl respect or trust in a male who's dominance, by the very nature of his mass-produced, impersonal and lackluster approach, is won by something that so closely resembles the random nature of the lottery?

SusanofO -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 8:28:04 PM)
amayos: Exactly. Maybe it takes some people and men especially, awhile to figure out that, Dominance is an individually developed thing, and has not much to do with brawn, and more to do with brains, sometimes. I do remember when I first joined this site. Don't get alll embarrassed on me now, but - I couldn't figure out why your name, for instance, wasn't 1) Capitalized and 2) Didn't have the word Master in front of it. After awhile, it dawned on me - you didn't think it mattered. Good for you (and to wild1cfl1, too). - Susan

MstrssScarlet -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 8:35:54 PM)
At times, my dominance has been questioned because I'm "just too nice to be a mistress." Generally, these are people looking for someone really stern and demanding. I always assure them that I can, indeed be the domme they're looking for. I love it when we're about 10 or 15 minutes into the session and I get very close to their ear and whisper "Do you think I'm mean enough now?" The answer is always "Yes Ma'am!" LOL I am always, ALWAYS polite to others (dom, sub, or vanilla) unless I'm given a reason not to be. As I've said for years, there's a time and place for "that kind" of behaviour and a vanilla setting is NOT the place. (I personally consider anywhere outside the dungeon or playspace to be vanilla) Mistress Scarlet

Homestead -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 9:27:39 PM)
A superior inspires admiration in a subordinate by being polite. It shows that while they may be inferior in rank,the respect is at the same level. Again,it returns to showing a nature of Nobility.

marieToo -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 9:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adommeforu Today I was offered an address for a new site. I thanked the “lady” and made a comment, regarding the site she suggested. She responded by questioning My honesty and then blocked Me. Now I do not so much care that some complete stranger questions My honesty, as I do that I was not given the opportunity to defend Myself. All she has done is prove that the comment that I made is indeed valid. Tell Me, A/all, if Y/you will, has there been a surcharge levied on manners? Im sorry, but I cant understand why someone would block you for saying 'thank you' followed by a "comment" that you dont elaborate on. What did you say that made her question your honesty??? Then you speak about your frustration about not being able to "defend" yourself. Defend yourself against what? All you did was thank her , right? Then you said that she proved that the "comment" you made was valid. So Im guessing that you made some type of critical/negative comment about her (that you are leaving out of the story) and she most likely didnt want to hear more "comments" of the same nature. Let it go, unless you need to get to her that badly. In that case, use your imagination. There are at least 3 ways that I can think of that you can 'force' her to read you. But hell if Im giving any away!

JustaDom -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/28/2006 9:35:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO I wonder how often, an extremely brusque manner of dealing with others (particularly submissives, perhaps) is mistaken by men who are relatively "new" to this whole realm of bdsm, as being more "Domly" or "Masterly" than just treating them like huma beings - or like a friend, perhaps ? I am speaking of people who e-mail females with commands (of any kind) without knowng them at all, or who assume they will do what they ask, simply because the men have decided they are a "Master" or a "Dominant". - Susan Susan, I'm pretty much at a loss for why some people seem to think that this would actually work. I think it has something to do with too much bad porn, their parents never teaching them that they get more flies with honey than with vinegar or just not getting the difference between dominating someone and being domineering. The media portrayal of the stereotypical bitch dominatrix that is somewhat popular in movies doesn't help matters. Maybe part of their unconscious reasoning is that they feel they will be rejected anyway and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy or the feeling that if they can't have her, enough collective rude behavior will drive her away so no one can have her? Some people online and in real life are interested in being loud and obnoxious because it gets attention. Perhaps that is how they act in person too, which is why they are online -- nobody wants to deal with them in real life and they have some idea that a doormat will put up with that behavior. Psychiatrists came up with the diagnosis of Conduct Disorder for a reason and people who honestly don't get social norms have a good reason to turn to the internet instead of going outside. Maybe it is a combination of all of the above. (Link to the Wikipedia entry for Conduct Disorder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduct_Disorder ) There can be a time and a place for a dominant man to be rude, brusque and a generally nasty bastard to a submissive woman -- done properly, this can be part of a really good time. That time and place is not when you are making your first impression. I know I was taught to introduce myself by putting my best foot forward, not in my mouth. I certainly would not want to date the woman who would respond positively to the garbage emails or to that same kind of approach in person. Anyone who will go for that has as much wrong with them as the jerk who wrote it. I'm all for treating a submissive woman like a nasty $20 whore as long as she has some class, too. There is nothing wrong with a lady having decent standards, men who have standards too will appreciate it. Joe

SusanofO -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 1:14:47 AM)
JustaDom: I appreciated your post. - Susan

Kedicat -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 1:28:57 AM)
Cost nothing. Value immense. I give good manners freely, but continue only if returned in kind. Even when wasted on a lout, they are a value to Me in the giving of them. A tired and haggard worker who has been treated like a lesser being all day usually shows their appreciation when I smile and say please and thankyou. Sometimes it is too late, or they are a lout too. No cost to Me. I feel that the offer of good manners to someone, is to let them know you meet them as equal, and take it from there. It is a show of initial respect, hopefully mutual.

eyesopened -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 2:21:36 AM)
i'm not a mathematician (not sure i can even spell it) but i remember something about negative numbers being called "false" and positive numbers being "true" and i try to remember to apply that to words as well. Rude comments are negative and by their nature must be false so why worry about them? And good manners? Heck not only are they free but the more i give the more i have and even if they are sqandered by the rude and unrefined, it really doesn't take anything away from me and i'm never less because of it.

Pimpernell -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 3:21:13 AM)
To some people manners are the ultimate form of submission. By treating others with respect you place them on equal or higher footing than your own ego. But also, exposure to lack of manners each day wears on you and you return the favour. When people push into line at the supermarket, who is the less mannered person, the person who pushes in, or the person who tells them to get into line? Some people think manners only applies to how they or their peer group is treated. Believe it or not, there are people who think it is hilarious when their friend physically assaults a complete stranger, but think that stranger is rude for telling that person to f off and leave them alone. quote: ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire quote: I wonder how often, an extremely brusque manner of dealing with others (particularly submissives, perhaps) is mistaken by men who are relatively "new" to this whole realm of bdsm, as being more "Domly" or "Masterly" than just treating them like human beings - or like a friend, perhaps ? Well, for one it is not confined to men. I have been told often that the majority of Dommes some of my sub contacts have been in touch with forget their manners quickly as well. From what I have seen, and this is personal experience. There are some people out there that think that attaching a title to their name, being it Master, Mistress, Goddess, Sir, or whatever, mean that they no longer have to be polite to a submissive person beasue they are superior. These also tend to be newbies who have most of their knowledge from what they ahve read on the net or seen in porns. Most of us that are lifestyle tend to keep our manners about us. Most, not all. Like any other group of people, there ar a few who are just brusque with everyone. Personally, I try and be polite all the time. Unless someone starts with me I will not ruffle their feathers. My 2 cents DV Thanks for that. The OP posts a specific example of rudeness from a female, then people start going on about males, again. I took a long break from this site because I got tired of all the "especially men" or "mainly men are like this" comments which had nothing to do with the thread. Even the Ask the Master forum is full of these snide remarks. Men don't respond because what's the point? If you are a female you will deal with more males and it's more likely that an a-hole that will write you than a non a-hole, because a non a-hole will take time to read your profile so may not even write you at all, an a-hole will just go ahead. As a male I deal with more females than males. In real life I notice men have more manners than women. On this site I have noticed ill-mannered men, but I have seen more ill-mannered women posting on the forums. Yes this a reaction to other threads where it is rather blatant, but I just happened to be reading this one and wanted to sound off as I read so many male bashing posts yesterday I can't stand to read another one.

SusanofO -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 4:09:02 AM)
I apologize if my comments offended you in any way, Pimpernell. In my second post (and the third), I went out of my way to say that there are indeed many well-mannered Dominants and Masters on this site, so I hope you take that into consideration. Because I really did make a special effort to note this, as it is certainly very true. I am normally not much of a complainer - about most anything anyone else does. It normally takes quite a bit to make me really, truly offended forever at someone else. Despite appearances sometimes to the contrary, I have a pretty strong stomach and psyche. I don't always appreciate having it tested, though. I didn't want to maybe help turn this thread into one filled with whining posts, vs. inquiries about perhaps why people behave this way, or what might be done about it, which is one reason I took care to mention that I do think that many Dominants and Masters are mannerly. The rest of my posts were just an inquiry into why anyone would think someone else would be attracted to someone ordering them about, or being verbally battrered, whom they do not know at all, a comment which could apply to men or women, and a question which I do think has some merit, that is pertinent to the thread topic in general. Since the title of the thread was "Do Manners Cost?", I assumed this question-topic could apply to men or women, and, probably because I am a female, hetero submissive, applied my own response to hetero male Dominants and Masters. I hope these posts of mine do not dislluison you for many moons, again re: How female submissives might be pre-disposed to think of some male Dominants and Masters. I'd hate to think I was the cause, if this were to happen to you again (really). I'm relieved you went out of your way to state your post was a completely random reaction, to reading other posts in the past, that did indeed bash all Dominants and Masters, without reservation. - Susan

SusanofO -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 5:10:37 AM)
I think giving people the benefit of the doubt is sometimes a part of having nice manners. But it's always a judgment call. My experience with most females, and with many males, on this site has been generally good. - Susan

SusanofO -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 5:33:04 AM)
The world would, I think, be a better place if people really did try to treat everyone else the way they wanted to be treated, regardless of "role" (I am not referring to "scening" as far as this comment goes). Or at least made one little effort toward that end every day. This comment isn't bashing anyone, btw. It's not always true, some people really are ill-mannered, but - there are times when (I believe) one gets back from other people what they 'put out there' in the first place. I think most people can distinguish, in their heart-of-hearts, these two instances (and I am not referrring to the OP's experience. I think hers was a bad one (would have been for me anyway). - Susan

popeye1250 -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 6:46:15 AM)
Susan, I've only been posting in here for a few months but I noticed that too, no "Master" or "Mistress" in front of the names when I thought there would be. As for most people in this site, I find them very nice and helpfull as well when I have a question. Hey, maybe I should put "Master" in front of my name. What do you think? "Master Popeye" lol

Satyr6406 -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 1:16:58 PM)
Oh, boy! Another good subject! You know, I have believed for a long time that "the new world order" is really, killing us, as a society. I am a big believer in the old adage that "familiarity breeds contempt". I'm not saying that we hate each other; just that as the initial poster stated, manners are going by the wayside. What's funny is I think that here, maybe even a little bit more so than our daily lives, since the written word is all we have, it becomes even more imperative to conduct ourselves in an honorable and respectable manner. Obviously, at times, we can fall short but, if we keep trying, we'll at least reach an acceptable plateau. Back to my initial point about "familiarity". I wonder if the decline didn't start when we forgot about the simplest of courtesies. When I was just a young "pup", if we were playing stickball and one of the neighbors complained that we were too close to their house, we didn't "come off sideways" or say: "You're not my father. Who are you to tell me what to do?"; we moved the game elsewhere (and made fun of them, behind their back LOL!). I was always taught that in polite company, you don't address someone by first name until invited to do so but, in our world, how many people are so vigillantly protective (and probably rightly so) of our identities? I know that, when I introduce myself, I always do so with both names (partially because I'm hoping beyond hope that the person to whom I'm talking will be well-mannered). It goes even a little deeper than that. If I introduce myself to you as "Michael", why would you then, say: "Nice to meet you, Mike."? (Most people do and I just don't get it) Something as basic as our name and people can't even respect our preference regarding it! LOL! In "How To Win Friends And Influence People" Dale Carnegie says that the most beautiful sound to the human ear is our own name (in most cases. Some HATE their names). Why then, do we just DO WHAT WE WANT TO with someone else's name? Because we just don't care. Again, we're back to "common courtesy". I think it speaks to selfishness and goes back to the "residue" of the "me" decade. It's NOT all about you. (It's all about Me LOL!) Peace and comfort, Michael

wild1cfl -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 1:25:22 PM)
I agree with you Susan, I always try to treat people with respect and courtesy, sometimes I get it back and other times I don't. If I don't then I know not to waste anymore of my time with that person because I do not want to be near them. You do bring up another good point however, when I am scening with a submissive that wants humiliation then I am the most rude and disgusting bastard that you could imagine, but again it is only for scening. When we are done I make sure that the submissive is well cared for and happy with what happened and always ask them if they are okay.

Padriag -> RE: Do manners cost? (8/29/2006 2:30:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adommeforu Tell Me, A/all, if Y/you will, has there been a surcharge levied on manners? While some may not hold manners in the regard they should be, that's their loss. What I do know is that in business as well as my personal life there is definitely a cost for not having manners and clear benefits to having them.

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