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julietsierra -> RE: Sadistic tastes (9/1/2006 9:59:36 AM)
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ORIGINAL: Mavis
quote:
ORIGINAL: julietsierra
d) I get upset over some perceived hurt and he absolutely refuses to give in...to make me feel better...to cave to my demands - even when I'm just positive they're not demands but needs. And then I realize that in every single other relationship in my life, when the man has acquiesced, I've lost all respect for him. In this one, he does not concede, compromise or anything like that. He says it. It happens. He says no. It's no. Sometimes it hurts like hell because I keep wondering if he really cares...and then he does something that shows he does - without caving. And yet, if he's wrong, he corrects his actions. He doesn't apologize, but he corrects. I'd rather have the actions than the words. But again, it's only on his time - not just cause I'm upset.
Honestly, is that emotional sadism? i'm not being sarcastic, i'm really curious... i never labeled it, i just thought of it as Him refusing to jump my hoops.
i tend to think of emotional sadism being more along the lines of.. denial of emotional security, making sub live the rollercoaster, threats of release, unstructured punishments, abandonment mind-fucks and the like. i guess i consider those things as BAD, and physical sadism as ok, since it's usually something that heals.
Well, first of all, he does not punish. So, there are no unstructured punishments. I have a choice. Obedience or walk. That's it. That's all. No choices in between.
Ever.
I used to think of this as the threat of abandonment, and I have had significant issues with abandonment. Then I realized that the threat of abandonment came from ME... not him. He only stated the truth. Either I want to submit, or I don't. There is no middle ground, no negotiations, none of the stuff I see written about all the time. I came to realize that unless I give him good reason (and he is a reasonable man), he's not choosing to go anywhere, and instead of being scared all the time and imagining things in my head, I get to realize that all is well. This is a HUGE improvement over the whole of my entire life before him.
Secondly, I see emotional sadism in the same way I see physical sadism. In the physical world, someone can use a flogger on someone and not be a sadist - they do it for the sensations, etc. Someone else can use a flogger on someone and be definitely sadistic in its use. It's not just sensations, but upped in degree to be decidedly painful. Add in duration and all that other stuff, and what started out as sensation has developed into a sadistic playground.
It's all a matter of degrees.
When I see people in these threads talk about dominants withholding things from their submissives, it's most often talked about in terms of days, and sometimes weeks or perhaps even a month.
How many people have stayed in a situation in which the withholding has lasted over a year? Virtually no sex (except to satisfy him), and no play, (including no masturbation) - and this isn't just because we were getting to know each other. This was an intentional and calculated exercise designed - I found out afterwards - to see what and how much I'd take AND to see if I was serious about this whole D/s journey. And it started the day AFTER he collared me. Yep...April 3, 2004 to April 24, 2005. I swear I remember every single second of that year. He gave me the collar so that I'd have something tangible to hold on to when I started to panic in the upcoming months. There were times it was the only thing that kept me going.
Yes, we spent time together. Sometimes entire evenings with him barely saying one word to me, sometimes just for dinner, and then, he'd say good bye, without so much as even a hug afterwards, and walk away, with me not knowing when I'd see him again. We talked daily though, and in those conversations shared a lot of our lives. But even then, he'd talk to me about things he's done in the past...the hours long sessions he's created with other submissives...
And if you don't think THAT was more than a bit painful to listen to as the months ran on and on....
He was seeing if I'd come apart at the seams. He was allowing me space to actively choose to be here.
But I stayed...I learned to listen... I learned to stop reading my fears into his actions, and I learned that he wasn't going to prove himself to me. And yes, I learned he wasn't going to jump through my hoops. Either I accepted the position I was in or I didn't..
One day I cried to him "If I only understood WHY you're doing this...!
His response:
"Emotional sadism baby...it's the holy moly of em all. Either you're here and here for good, or you need to go, and go now."
He only told me how he felt about me AFTER that year had come and gone. Before then, I simply had to go with what I was feeling for him. What I didn't know was that the entire time, my feelings for him were growing - no matter what I didn't ever give voice to. When I finally DID tell him...his response was to smile and say "I know. I've known all along - you're just realizing this?" I got to tell him how I felt with no expectation or even delivery of a reciprocal statement. He told me later and in a separate conversation how he felt. Through it all, I learned that what I feel can stand on its own. *I* can stand on my own...and that my submission is given freely, with definite thought, and due consideration. I rather like that I know I'll be just fine on my own, and yet... I turn my life over to him willingly and without qualifications.
This is also why you'll never ever see me talking about how we need to trust our dominants. I don't believe that for a second. Sure, based on the time we've spent together, I have some idea of how he'll react in a given circumstance, but I'm never SURE. What I AM sure about is that I am cared about and that he is a reasonable man. Our time together has shown me that in general, he makes good decisions. From there, the person I trust in is myself - to know when enough's enough. (And isn't that what he's doing as well?)
That way my decisions to stay or go are based entirely on what's healthy for me. Strange thing is...when I do this, it gives him immense freedom to do what he wants, without worrying about my reactions. I like seeing the person in him that no one else sees...I like that person a LOT.
I don't know, because he doesn 't really operate this way, but I don't believe physical sadism could have given me the same things that his emotional sadism has provided. The other side of the coin is that the more he's done this, the stronger I have become...which means that to engage in more emotional sadism, he has to do tougher and tougher things along the way. And I keep on getting to choose to be here.
juliet
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