RE: no hands

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Homestead -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:14:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead Meditation has valid uses in self-awareness and growth. I quite agree. But does it require a girl's hands to be useless and for her to be tied with a 2 foot chain to accomplish that? Being locked in a cage or closet would also work. So would being shunned to a corner of the room. It appears the point of this thread is changing, unless I am misunderstanding. The original question was what to do if unable to use hands, added to include being tethered to a 2 foot chain. The scenario has completely changed, which creates a different outcome...doesn't it? I agree with girlie. I dont think that being mittened is the only way to reach or learn meditation. I think thats why I am becoming confused as well, because the scenario is altering and I see different outcomes and training. Peace and Rapture I think this is what happens in many cases when the Master changes the direction and goal without properly communicating - the slave becomes confused and has trouble meeting his requirements. If he is not careful, she could be unintentionally set up to fail. I do not require intent to be guessed. I communicate as I go. Neither do I expect a slave to be so ignorant or rigid in mindset that she cannot use logic and intuition to follow my lead. Yes, it's a test of ability.

ownedgirlie -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:18:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead I have an extremely active and adaptive mind, and will often see where a 'flow' will lead. If you can do this, it creates an immense base of personal power. Your perceptions broaden, and more tools come into your hands. And with these tools, one can create yet others. It is always good for a slave to be able to change and go with the flow of her Master. I think the confusion in this thread occurs when a girl tries to meet the desired outcome, yet the desired outcome appears to be changing. Therefore, clarification was requested. quote: In this scenario a dependency is created, and an intimacy, along with it. Things taken for granted are cast into stark releif. Would you agree that a slave should be dependent on her Master? He then becomes her focus and her purpose. In doing so, he is pleased and she reaches peaceful contentment in knowing he is satisfied.

Homestead -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:21:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead I have an extremely active and adaptive mind, and will often see where a 'flow' will lead. If you can do this, it creates an immense base of personal power. Your perceptions broaden, and more tools come into your hands. And with these tools, one can create yet others. It is always good for a slave to be able to change and go with the flow of her Master. I think the confusion in this thread occurs when a girl tries to meet the desired outcome, yet the desired outcome appears to be changing. Therefore, clarification was requested. quote: In this scenario a dependency is created, and an intimacy, along with it. Things taken for granted are cast into stark releif. Would you agree that a slave should be dependent on her Master? He then becomes her focus and her purpose. In doing so, he is pleased and she reaches peaceful contentment in knowing he is satisfied. A dependency should not supercede a girl's need to see to herself. Simply bleeding into another indivual is no real way to increase both in potential. It's more a parasitism than a symbiosis.

Celeste43 -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:21:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead There may be days that I am simply in a crappy mood, and need to work it out on my own. I'm male, and I tend to be stubborn about needing my space-when I need it. When I need alone time, don't screw with me. So "little mary sunshine" waltzing in to "fix" me in these times, will not be well received. Nor will her undergoing an emotional implosion on being told so, help to lighten my stress levels. Seems to involve unnecessary stress on everyone. If he's in a bad mood and wants to be left alone, all he has to do is tell me. I probably will still bring his tea and cook his dinner, but that's because it's SOP around here. So if he didn't want even that, he would need to tell me. But I can't see any purpose in all this. Plus in my relationship, he would not chain me to a wall and abandon me for hours on end. Against his principles. Therefore the situation you've set up, in my relationship, would involve him providing constant service to me. Nothing in the op specified all the other stuff you've added. Basically, I wouldn't be with someone who's so passive aggressive that he couldn't even say "I'm in a bad mood, better not try to talk to me until I feel better.

ownedgirlie -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:22:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead I do not require intent to be guessed. I communicate as I go. Neither do I expect a slave to be so ignorant or rigid in mindset that she cannot use logic and intuition to follow my lead. Yes, it's a test of ability. I find it interesting that most of your references to a slave contain a negative connotation: control freak, arrogant, ignorant, rigid, can not use logic....I would find it refreshing to read about any good qualities you have encountered in a slave.

Littlepita -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:23:28 PM)
I have been thinking about this thread all day and after reading all the replies I have to say I see it now in a different light than my initial gut reaction was to it. Homestead said in one of his post that this would be used on the sub so she could 'get over herself'. I understand that thought. I have struggled for 6 months now to get over myself and become what he wants me to be. Being completely vulnerable and at his mercy sure would be a step in teaching me to trust and obey in a way I never thought of before. One of the most interesting aspect of my D/s relationship so far has been learning that it's not about me. It's about him and what he wants out of me. Still deciding if I will point out this thread however. Not always good to plant ideas your not sure you want planted. [;)]

ownedgirlie -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:24:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead A dependency should not supercede a girl's need to see to herself. Simply bleeding into another indivual is no real way to increase both in potential. It's more a parasitism than a symbiosis. That wasn't my point. You are assuming the worst again. I said nothing about bleeding into anyone. You mentioned dependency and I asked about her focus to provide him satisfaction. That has nothing to do with being a parasite.

Bearlee -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:30:28 PM)
Lordy...this is GREAT stuff... please re-read the past half dozen posts or so... WOW I'm re-considering a bunch of stuff; thank you all! bear

Homestead -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:32:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead There may be days that I am simply in a crappy mood, and need to work it out on my own. I'm male, and I tend to be stubborn about needing my space-when I need it. When I need alone time, don't screw with me. So "little mary sunshine" waltzing in to "fix" me in these times, will not be well received. Nor will her undergoing an emotional implosion on being told so, help to lighten my stress levels. Seems to involve unnecessary stress on everyone. If he's in a bad mood and wants to be left alone, all he has to do is tell me. I probably will still bring his tea and cook his dinner, but that's because it's SOP around here. So if he didn't want even that, he would need to tell me. But I can't see any purpose in all this. Plus in my relationship, he would not chain me to a wall and abandon me for hours on end. Against his principles. Therefore the situation you've set up, in my relationship, would involve him providing constant service to me. Nothing in the op specified all the other stuff you've added. Basically, I wouldn't be with someone who's so passive aggressive that he couldn't even say "I'm in a bad mood, better not try to talk to me until I feel better. You may want to note that I did say exactly that. And how annoying it is to have emotional drama played out over telling a girl to leave me alone. Please pay attention.

Mavis -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:34:36 PM)
on fast reply, i don't see the issue with this, unless it turns out to be that i am actually just lazy. but i dont have this huge urge to be DOING.. i'm rather like a companion slave. Just interacting, being His company, "co-loafing" has much appeal. i love to be asked for a drink or refill, i love having it ready before asked too, but i'm also quite content to be standing at the counter chatting, and see Him refill my cup as W/we chat. i might remark "Oh, i should have gotten that" but W/we B/both know, if it had been more important than the discussion, i'd have been told so. also, mitts.. does this preclude stroking and touching if allowed? Elbows and forearms can give great massages, as can feet. Much slave attn is given without the benefit of hands anyway, facial nuzzling while kneeling with hands behind.. i think if we truly think of when we're interacting at our highest levels, we aren't Doing, but Being, and it's a whole-skin thing more than "Hands-on". This might not be popular view, but i know that one of the things i do best is feed Masters or HusDoms need or enjoyment of teaching. i can lay at either of Their feet, close my eyes, and just listen as He teaches thru stories, recounting life events, discusses business or hobby plans, i feel like a big sponge, and it's a pleasure for me, especially because it lights the fire in His eyes to have an audience with a critical ear and active, not passive, listening. The trade off.. yes. i'd have to pee. and that would only mess with my mind if i wasn't already in the midset of the captive.

Homestead -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:38:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead A dependency should not supercede a girl's need to see to herself. Simply bleeding into another indivual is no real way to increase both in potential. It's more a parasitism than a symbiosis. That wasn't my point. You are assuming the worst again. I said nothing about bleeding into anyone. You mentioned dependency and I asked about her focus to provide him satisfaction. That has nothing to do with being a parasite. A slave is a well adjusted team member to me. Someone comptently capable of following my lead and using her common sense to help with the overall program. I don't want a carbon copy of me. I don't want total agreement on every niggling detail, every opinion. That will not help ME to grow and broaden my horizons. If a slave becomes overly dependent on me, what will happen if I am incapacitated in a crisis? Dependency must have a BOUNDARY. This is why I often disagree with what you write here. You do not seem to realize that those boundaries equate to a higher plane of service. Instead, you seem to seek to eliminate them. I do not find this to be particularly worthy. YYMV[;)]

agirl -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:38:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead Imagine you as a sub, are kept in locking bondage mittens for a day. Thickly padded totally losing the use of your fingers and thumb. The Top would be around- how do you think it would play out? You cannot do anything by yourself, even open a closed door. This isn't a terribly unusual situation for me, apart from the mitts....having hands cuffed or tied for long periods of time is similar. I certainly wouldn't be bored. In fact, it's quite an interesting time. As for peeing or pooing with aid, or having to be wiped, that also isn't an unusual situation for me, nor is having tampons removed and inserted. I don't LIKE it nor wish for it but it happens. I am completely content just to be......I don't need to serve. I'm also perfectly happy to do things for him IF he wants me to. He doesn't need me to be showing my devotion constantly. It's pretty obvious in the way I live. agirl

Level -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:44:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis on fast reply, i don't see the issue with this, unless it turns out to be that i am actually just lazy. but i dont have this huge urge to be DOING.. i'm rather like a companion slave. Just interacting, being His company, *"co-loafing" has much appeal. i love to be asked for a drink or refill, i love having it ready before asked too, but i'm also quite content to be standing at the counter chatting, and see Him refill my cup as W/we chat. i might remark "Oh, i should have gotten that" but W/we B/both know, if it had been more important than the discussion, i'd have been told so. also, mitts.. does this preclude stroking and touching if allowed? Elbows and forearms can give great massages, as can feet. Much slave attn is given without the benefit of hands anyway, facial nuzzling while kneeling with hands behind.. i think if we truly think of when we're interacting at our highest levels, we aren't Doing, but Being, and it's a whole-skin thing more than "Hands-on". This might not be popular view, but i know that one of the things i do best is feed Masters or HusDoms need or enjoyment of teaching. i can lay at either of Their feet, close my eyes, and just listen as He teaches thru stories, recounting life events, discusses business or hobby plans, i feel like a big sponge, and it's a pleasure for me, especially because it lights the fire in His eyes to have an audience with a critical ear and active, not passive, listening. The trade off.. yes. i'd have to pee. and that would only mess with my mind if i wasn't already in the midset of the captive. All in favor of more "co-loafing" raise your hands (even you with mitts). [:D]*

krikket -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:45:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level I would urge you strongly to not doubt your submission, certainly not because of health or physical limitations. Serve with your heart and your mind, please as well as you are able, and I cannot imagine a dominant not being pleased with you, jimini. What a sweet thing to say -- thank You. quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead I do not want a servant to serve for an attention reward. I will give attention when, and how I see fit to..Not because she is hovering about, trolling for it.. I desire service to be unobtrusive, and competently handled. I give praise sparingly, and for feats above and beyond the pale. The rest I acknowledge as well done, on any particular day. This was one of the most difficult things i had to learn -- and to remember long after the lessons..lol. i'm a fixer by nature...and when i couldn't, or it wasn't wanted, my frustration level would soar beyond bearing. It took ages for me to learn that i didn't have to fill the silence between us with endless prattle, but that he appreciated and needed some quiet time without me hovering. If i felt restless there were always things that needed doing, quietly and away from him. Whether it was laundry, cooking, keeping the coffee fresh, cleaning or just doing some research, i could almost always fill my time in ways to make his life easier. After all, that was one of my main goal -- one of the two purposes i had been taught early on. As for laying about like a lady to the manor born, waiting for him to bring me things..trust me he would have definitely thought of something else for me to do..and the no hands rule would have have given him a huge belly laugh while i attempted to follow his instructions...lol (It does make for some interesting visuals.) Huggles y'all jimini PS i'd love to know how many subs will, in the coming weeks, be wearing bondage mitts, or other things to make their hands unusual..lol

darkinshadows -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:45:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead Meditation has valid uses in self-awareness and growth. I quite agree. But does it require a girl's hands to be useless and for her to be tied with a 2 foot chain to accomplish that? Being locked in a cage or closet would also work. So would being shunned to a corner of the room. It appears the point of this thread is changing, unless I am misunderstanding. The original question was what to do if unable to use hands, added to include being tethered to a 2 foot chain. The scenario has completely changed, which creates a different outcome...doesn't it? I agree with girlie. I dont think that being mittened is the only way to reach or learn meditation. I think thats why I am becoming confused as well, because the scenario is altering and I see different outcomes and training. Peace and Rapture This scenario can lead in many different directions, just like individuals. I have been accused many times here of being rigid - I am anything but. I have an extremely active and adaptive mind, and will often see where a 'flow' will lead. If you can do this, it creates an immense base of personal power. Your perceptions broaden, and more tools come into your hands. And with these tools, one can create yet others. In this scenario a dependency is created, and an intimacy, along with it. Things taken for granted are cast into stark releif. Oh I understand. But what is becoming confusing is that this never started out as a scene that progressed. Yes, any scene adapts... but people arent responding to the adaptations... there are too many mixed messages coming in here which is bad communication. Any scene develops - but in a situation like this - on a message board the lesson is being lost. You mention to girlie that you constantly communicate as you go. But in this thread, its being lost. The thread as it began is different to how its evolved - both equal different scenarios. Both have different lessons. Peace and Rapture

Homestead -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:54:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead Meditation has valid uses in self-awareness and growth. I quite agree. But does it require a girl's hands to be useless and for her to be tied with a 2 foot chain to accomplish that? Being locked in a cage or closet would also work. So would being shunned to a corner of the room. It appears the point of this thread is changing, unless I am misunderstanding. The original question was what to do if unable to use hands, added to include being tethered to a 2 foot chain. The scenario has completely changed, which creates a different outcome...doesn't it? I agree with girlie. I dont think that being mittened is the only way to reach or learn meditation. I think thats why I am becoming confused as well, because the scenario is altering and I see different outcomes and training. Peace and Rapture This scenario can lead in many different directions, just like individuals. I have been accused many times here of being rigid - I am anything but. I have an extremely active and adaptive mind, and will often see where a 'flow' will lead. If you can do this, it creates an immense base of personal power. Your perceptions broaden, and more tools come into your hands. And with these tools, one can create yet others. In this scenario a dependency is created, and an intimacy, along with it. Things taken for granted are cast into stark releif. Oh I understand. But what is becoming confusing is that this never started out as a scene that progressed. Yes, any scene adapts... but people arent responding to the adaptations... there are too many mixed messages coming in here which is bad communication. Any scene develops - but in a situation like this - on a message board the lesson is being lost. You mention to girlie that you constantly communicate as you go. But in this thread, its being lost. The thread as it began is different to how its evolved - both equal different scenarios. Both have different lessons. Peace and Rapture It is the nature of threads to wander. Consider examing why my letting it go it's way upsets you so much. Or do you think I am training someone here? I am simply engaging in a discourse that interests me.

Bearlee -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:55:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mavis on fast reply, i don't see the issue with this, unless it turns out to be that i am actually just lazy. but i dont have this huge urge to be DOING.. i'm rather like a companion slave. Just interacting, being His company, "co-loafing" has much appeal. i love to be asked for a drink or refill, i love having it ready before asked too, but i'm also quite content to be standing at the counter chatting, and see Him refill my cup as W/we chat. i might remark "Oh, i should have gotten that" but W/we B/both know, if it had been more important than the discussion, i'd have been told so. /quote] <turns her back on Homey and refuses to bother him any longer...but continues to the rest of the 'audience': ...> I agree with others here; should 'he' wish to be left along, all he has to do is say so. While I can 'anticipate' his needs, I cannot read his mind. I'm happy to leave him to his druthers... make sense? bear

zumala -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:56:02 PM)
I have to admit that I sort of got lost somewhere along the way with this thread. I'm not even quite sure of what we're supposed to be discussing now.

Homestead -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:56:53 PM)
Having a tantrum Bearlee?[:D]

agirl -> RE: no hands (9/2/2006 2:56:54 PM)
[/quote] I do not require intent to be guessed. I communicate as I go. Neither do I expect a slave to be so ignorant or rigid in mindset that she cannot use logic and intuition to follow my lead. Yes, it's a test of ability. [/quote] This is something that has given me the most peace in my M/s relationship. I do NOT have to guess someone's intent, I do NOT have to guess their mood, I do NOT have to think of ways to please. I KNOW all of these things because I'm told them. I have the happy situation where my Master makes things how he wants them himself. I am not expected to do that. If he wants me to hush he just says Hush.......all very simple but wonderful. I don't go around worrying WHY he asked me to Hush....Why should I?. agirl

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