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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 10:33:05 AM   
Chaingang


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
However, the differences are meaningful, if slight enough, that I never vote for the "Demopukes" in any case. :)


I knew this from the first. Just please tell me you are clearing several million $$$ a year - then I might consider you self-interested but wrong instead of just deluded.

Most americans are just deluded about who they are and where they stand in the world.


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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 10:46:37 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		No offence intended here to the good people of CM but anyone who needs to watch a film to understand the exploitation that is taking place has been well and truly brainwashed. Michael Moore shouldn't have been telling anyone what they didn't already know.

Regards

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 10:57:10 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		True Northern, some of what Moore said I was already aware of. There were other more damning things he left out as well. I do not take what anyone says as gospel. I prefer to not idealize strangers like Michael Moore, GW, Clinton, Ann Coulter. Give me backed up news reporting. I do not know why people get so defensive over public figures as if they are friends or something.

I prefer not to have my positiions negated on the actions of those "on my side" I prefer to be a loner and not have a side. I do not know why Michael Moore or Al Gore was even brought into this. We are at war over the events leading up to 9-11 as well as that which has occurred after (Im speaking of Afghanistan and not Iraq). It does not seem too much to ask that events regarding this be RIGHT and not misrepresented. What others have done in the past is no justification for doing it again.

That is what is so troubling to me about movies like this, they skew the American public's perceptions. People STILL believe that Saddam attacked us on 9-11.



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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 11:15:56 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Julia,

The idiots who believe that Iraq did 9/11 are predominantly watchers of Fox News, big surprise eh?

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 11:19:42 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Julia,

The idiots who believe that Iraq did 9/11 are predominantly watchers of Fox News, big surprise eh?


I prefer to call it Faux News...smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 11:27:30 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		julia, I wasn't directing my post specifically at you. There are many people who keep repeating the line about Bush "stole the election". My point was, if you are interested in the truth, why keep repeating a lie?

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 11:30:44 AM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Julia,

The idiots who believe that Iraq did 9/11 are predominantly watchers of Fox News, big surprise eh?


Actually, I doubt that is true. Fox has never said that Iraq was behind 9/11. And we didn't go in to Iraq because we thought they were behind 9/11. You sure do like to just throw out statements regardless of their truth, don't you?

< Message edited by Estring -- 9/8/2006 11:31:23 AM >

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 11:40:07 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Um.... like I said, read Greg Palast's website. http://www.gregpalast.com/

It is not just Republicans that are in on scamming elections. Palast was talking about Abramoff about 6 years ago because he does real investigative journalism. I love this guy, and he is not on anyone's side, he gets his teeth into political corruption and he goes for it. Right now it is the republicans that control things, so of course they are the target of his investiagtions more so than the other side. When Clinton was in office Palast wrote for the BBC so  he was not involved so much with American politics.. but in The Best Democracy Money Can Buy he outlines corruption scandals that involved Clinton that the republicans covered up because it involved one of their biggest contributors. My Daddy loved this book when he read it, but we tend to share many of the same ideas politically.

Anyone that does not know about a company called ChoicePoint really does not know about election 2000. Electronic Jim Crowe before there was even an election... scrubbing Black people off of voter rolls before they could even vote. It is all in Palast's books and on his site.

One of my good friends who was a Green switched to Democrat to run for Sec of State for Washington state. He was intimately involved with an organization called Black Box Voting. He helped keep computerized voting out of California. He passed away from liver cancer. He was a tremendous activist against voter fraud and was involved with exposing Diebold's machines as completely inappropriate to use for an election.. he was fighting clear up to the end for papertrails... I miss him a lot.. he was a wonderful human being

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 1:38:31 PM   
PlayfulOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Julia,

The idiots who believe that Iraq did 9/11 are predominantly watchers of Fox News, big surprise eh?


I prefer to call it Faux News...smiles


Julia,

I like to call it "Fox Propaganda".

K

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 1:44:13 PM   
PlayfulOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

This is so amusing at least I'm greatly amused!

Anyone remember the "dramatization" about the Reagan Administration? Mrs Reagan was told the same story about "dramatic license". It's just a movie, why all the angst?


Come on Merc
You can do better than that, talking out of both sides of your mouth doesn't become you.

I know you remember Regan Family Members appearing everywhere going on about the movie and it being pulled form network broadcast.

The parrallels are between the Regan Movie and the Clinton one,  not the one about Bush being assasinated.  Everyone who is not dead understands that Bush was not assasinated and it is a work of fiction.  When you play with the facts, whether it was the series involving Regan or the one involving Clinton, much of the public takes watching this for fact rather than digesting it as a work of fiction.

K

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 2:00:05 PM   
CrappyDom


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Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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Average of Three Misperception Rates among Viewers and
Listeners: WMD Found, Evidence of al Qaeda Link,
and World Majority Support for War
(percentages)
News Source Average Rate per Misperception
Fox 45
CBS 36
CNN 31
ABC 30
NBC 30
Print Media 25
NPR/PBS 11
Source: Program on International Policy Attitudes/Knowledge Networks.
 
 
 
Which isn't why I listen to NPR but not wanting to be 45% wrong about everything isn't a bad reason!

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 2:05:38 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I was thinking about that poll and the more I do the more shocking it becomes.

Setting aside the reasons why fox is so slanted, imagine being 45% wrong about three very simple issues on probably the most important issue before us.

Combine that ignorance with an approval rating lower than any president has ever had, imagine what it would be if they were not ignorant of the truth.

Imagine what will happen when the Democrats regain control of Congress and the truth comes out during the impeachment hearings!  The Republican party is not soon going to recover from GWB that's for sure.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 2:13:23 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Playful,
My point is that all movies are dramatizations always "based upon" facts. They are dramatizations NOT documentaries.

The point that Moore's movies and to a lesser extent Dole's, are listed as Documentaries would put them at the level requiring all information being factual with facts representing the contrary side also represented. Moore's supporters seem to say his movie didn't represent fact, but it's still referred to as documentary. Not seeing it, I take their comments as a reason not to.

The consistency of my posts is the wondering why President Clinton is concerned about a dramatization? Why isn't there the same cavalier attitude regarding the President Reagan movie or Fahrenheit 9/11 movie? Is it because it's about a terrorist attack or a disaster? Again, where is the consistency to the dramatizations regarding the Pearl Harbor attack or docu-dramas about the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan? Go back to the latest treatment regarding the Titanic, do people believe the there was a 'Rose' & 'Jack' and the "Heart of the Ocean" necklace is now at the bottom of the North Atlantic?

Maybe your problem is in your opinion that "much of the public takes watching this or fact rather than digesting it as a work of fiction". Well they need to begin learning that process. Whether they rely on news from the "Foolish Old Xenophobic" news network or the older, more established "Communist News Network". If this movie instigates such a movement, then the production will have served a better purpose than ever intended.

For others who need to know; West Wing, NYPD Blue, Oval Office, 24 Hours, The 4400, and the Simpson's are all fiction. If you want reality watch Star Trek.

(in reply to PlayfulOne)
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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 2:40:15 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I think the problem is that through the impeachment process that Clinton was bashed so much that even in a dramazation it is considered Clinton bashing - aka democrat bashing.  I wonder what would happen if they made a movie about the impeachment process.  Would there be photo's of Monica on her knees?  No it would be dramatized.  I think they are trying to salvage Clinton's reputation some way by blocking anything that migh be considered derogatory.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 2:43:07 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I was thinking about that poll and the more I do the more shocking it becomes.

Setting aside the reasons why fox is so slanted, imagine being 45% wrong about three very simple issues on probably the most important issue before us.

Combine that ignorance with an approval rating lower than any president has ever had, imagine what it would be if they were not ignorant of the truth.

Imagine what will happen when the Democrats regain control of Congress and the truth comes out during the impeachment hearings!  The Republican party is not soon going to recover from GWB that's for sure.


And what is the percentage of people who believe that Bush stole the elections? What is the percentage of people who believe that Katrina killed way more blacks than whites? What percentage of people believe that 9/11 was a secret government plot?
I am more concerned with what is true. We had many good reasons for going into Iraq without needing a direct connection to 9/11. That is what I believe. And the reason I believe this is because of the facts, not because of Fox News. A high percentage of people believe Elvis is still alive. I am not going to change my belief that he is dead just because some have a different opinion. No matter the percentage.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 2:53:16 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I was thinking about that poll and the more I do the more shocking it becomes.

Setting aside the reasons why fox is so slanted, imagine being 45% wrong about three very simple issues on probably the most important issue before us.

Combine that ignorance with an approval rating lower than any president has ever had, imagine what it would be if they were not ignorant of the truth.

Imagine what will happen when the Democrats regain control of Congress and the truth comes out during the impeachment hearings!  The Republican party is not soon going to recover from GWB that's for sure.


And what is the percentage of people who believe that Bush stole the elections? What is the percentage of people who believe that Katrina killed way more blacks than whites? What percentage of people believe that 9/11 was a secret government plot?
I am more concerned with what is true. We had many good reasons for going into Iraq without needing a direct connection to 9/11. That is what I believe. And the reason I believe this is because of the facts, not because of Fox News. A high percentage of people believe Elvis is still alive. I am not going to change my belief that he is dead just because some have a different opinion. No matter the percentage.


Estring  you know it is all about polls.  

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 3:17:10 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I was thinking about that poll and the more I do the more shocking it becomes.

Setting aside the reasons why fox is so slanted, imagine being 45% wrong about three very simple issues on probably the most important issue before us.

Combine that ignorance with an approval rating lower than any president has ever had, imagine what it would be if they were not ignorant of the truth.

Imagine what will happen when the Democrats regain control of Congress and the truth comes out during the impeachment hearings!  The Republican party is not soon going to recover from GWB that's for sure.


And what is the percentage of people who believe that Bush stole the elections? What is the percentage of people who believe that Katrina killed way more blacks than whites? What percentage of people believe that 9/11 was a secret government plot?
I am more concerned with what is true. We had many good reasons for going into Iraq without needing a direct connection to 9/11. That is what I believe. And the reason I believe this is because of the facts, not because of Fox News. A high percentage of people believe Elvis is still alive. I am not going to change my belief that he is dead just because some have a different opinion. No matter the percentage.


Do you know what ChoicePoint is?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 3:17:37 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Estring,

The difference between you and I is that when I state something as a fact and someone shows me I am wrong, I stop to examine that, to think about it and if the same person did it a couple of times I might wonder what else they were right about. 

You seem to just stumble off in another direction with the blink of an eye.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 4:35:09 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Estring,

The difference between you and I is that when I state something as a fact and someone shows me I am wrong, I stop to examine that, to think about it and if the same person did it a couple of times I might wonder what else they were right about. 

You seem to just stumble off in another direction with the blink of an eye.


No, the difference is that you think that calling people who differ with you idiots or morons, shows some kind of intelligent thought. It doesn't. I have given you many facts to ponder, and I haven't seen much pondering on your part.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/8/2006 4:36:21 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I was thinking about that poll and the more I do the more shocking it becomes.

Setting aside the reasons why fox is so slanted, imagine being 45% wrong about three very simple issues on probably the most important issue before us.

Combine that ignorance with an approval rating lower than any president has ever had, imagine what it would be if they were not ignorant of the truth.

Imagine what will happen when the Democrats regain control of Congress and the truth comes out during the impeachment hearings!  The Republican party is not soon going to recover from GWB that's for sure.


And what is the percentage of people who believe that Bush stole the elections? What is the percentage of people who believe that Katrina killed way more blacks than whites? What percentage of people believe that 9/11 was a secret government plot?
I am more concerned with what is true. We had many good reasons for going into Iraq without needing a direct connection to 9/11. That is what I believe. And the reason I believe this is because of the facts, not because of Fox News. A high percentage of people believe Elvis is still alive. I am not going to change my belief that he is dead just because some have a different opinion. No matter the percentage.


Do you know what ChoicePoint is?


Okay, I will bite. What is Choice Point?

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Profile   Post #: 60
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