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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart?


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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 1/28/2005 9:41:13 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Then why on earth isn't it called Sumerian slavery? Or Egyptian slavery? The fact that the term "Gor" has been chosen, like it or not, allies the practice with the books.


Modern Christianity has little to do with what Christ taught, but that doesn't mean ther are going to change the name. *smile*

For me, it is pretty simple. Some people are not comfortable in their non-conformity, unless that can non-conform in a group that non-conforms in the same way. Goreans are a group of non-conformists that provide a very strict (and therefore well documented) protocol of conformity. It is quite easy to pick up the language and rituals and then conform to the ways of other non-conformists.

The new "Old Guard"ers are quite the same. A bunch of rules to make it easy to non-conform just like other people.

It reminds me of that old Steve Martin bit "The Non-Conformists Oath" He would get the crowd to repeat after him:

Steve: I am a non-conformist
Crowd: I am a non-conformist
Steve: I stand out in the crowd
Crowd: I stand out in the crowd
Steve: I do not repeat things other people say
Crowd: *laughter*

Just my thoughts...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to perverseangelic)
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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 1/28/2005 11:13:47 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


Modern Christianity has little to do with what Christ taught, but that doesn't mean ther are going to change the name. *smile*



Perhaps in practice, but not in theory.

That's kinda my point. The practice might be different, but the claim, in using the name, is that it orriginates somehow in either the teachings of Christ or the books of Norman.

Christians claim to be living by the teachings of Christ, whether or not they do is debatable. Goreans, like it or not, have laid claim to living by the teachings of Norman.

Heck, I'd be refereshed to see someone practicing "Sumerian Slavery" :)


_____________________________

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 1/31/2005 6:47:33 AM   
stormiKnightBEAR


Posts: 306
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quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

My Kink is OK, Your Kink is OK

OK? (I think this is what you are saying...and it makes sense)



THAT is exactly what stormi is saying. The folks that claim to be open minded
are usually the ones doing the 7734 raising. Why? Dunno.

There's another thread. stormi does not understand the fetish, honestly is
put off by it, but instead of bashing the person asked the question "what is
it about the fetish? Can you help this girl understand it?" NOTE: stormi did not
ask him to justify but to educate. If that fetish is what he likes so be it.

As for Master and His girl, regardless of the less secure who don't like it,
We will continue to say that "Yes, We do live our life 24/7 as Gorean Master/slave."

Thanks once for your ability to understand the point!! You're a gem!


stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 1/31/2005 7:59:39 AM   
onceburned


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From: Iowa
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Thank you stormi for your kind words - I really needed to hear something nice today.
(poor health)

My state (Iowa) considers much of what we do to be a criminal offense. Consent is irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

But we know that consent is everything. As long as both partners agree (and understand what they are doing) there is no harm, no foul.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 1/31/2005 8:00:39 AM >

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 1/31/2005 11:19:00 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormiKnightBEAR

There's another thread. stormi does not understand the fetish, honestly is
put off by it, but instead of bashing the person asked the question "what is
it about the fetish? Can you help this girl understand it?" NOTE: stormi did not
ask him to justify but to educate. If that fetish is what he likes so be it.



Normally I ignore Gor threads on the premis that I can't really say anything 100% nice. However, this one asked "why do people have such a knee-jerk reaction to it"

I wanted to answer that bit--why I personally react negativly to Gor.

I don't think that -one- individuals condemnation of a practice for herself is necesarially a bad thing. If I posted about one of my turn-ons, and it didn't work for someone, I'd be interested in why it didn't work for them. I'm curious as to what turns people -off- almost as much as what turns them on.

I appologize if my words were read as blanket condemnation. It wasn't intended that way. Rather, as a condemnation of a practice that makes -me- intensly unhappy and uncomfortable. To me, there's a measurable difference.

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/9/2005 11:36:23 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Then why on earth isn't it called Sumerian slavery? Or Egyptian slavery? The fact that the term "Gor" has been chosen, like it or not, allies the practice with the books.

I understand what you're saying, but if you want to break away from the books and all the things the books imply, choose new terminology.

Also, Gorean slavery isn't at all like Viking slavery, at least not viking slavery 700-1300AD. ('pologize, but this is one of my periods of interest.)


greetings perverseangelic....

You are quite right, Gorean slavery is based on many cultures, but primarily Rome and Classical Greece. Why don't people do Egyptian slavery? If they tried to live as an Egyptian, they could do so. Since we work from the culture and especially the philosophy of the Gor books, we call ourselves Gorean.

Norman based several books on the Norse, the slavery practiced in that part of Gor does resemble the slavery practiced by the Norse. I will note, that things changed a lot for them in the period you mention. The Norse went from fjord farmers and fishermen to great traders and raiders....then became Christians and went back to farming and fishing. Even the practice of slavery changed during that time. Not a great deal, but with contact with cultures from Byzantium to North Africa to Asia and the Mongels, things do change as they adopted bits of other cultures. Here on Earth, we change as well over time. Look at how much BDSM has changed in the last 50 years.

be well....

Malkinius

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 12:53:50 AM   
nella


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i agree whit stormi in this, whatever rocks your boat. i once heard of a woman that had a big dream of wearing thing wool clothing and being tied up by whool scarfs while having sex whit a man in think wool clothing. mittens, ears warms and the works. i think this is werry strange, but if it make her happy, who am i to judge, she is not harming anyone.

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 4:12:19 AM   
Leonidas


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Hello iinterstate,

I am Gorean. The straightforward answer to your question is that in the essential sense, and the way that really matters, our slaves are treated like the slaves in the books. They are treated as our property.

The fictional Gor described in the books is an environment very different from ours. There were no telephones, and no mechanized means of traveling great distances. A slave wouldn't have contact with her family if she was from a place far away, and most likely a place hostile to the place in which her master lived. It's not really any different from women in our old west, who hopped a wagon in Philly and ended up in Oregon, where if she had any contact with her family at all, it might be a time or two a year by a letter that took months to arrive. We don't live in that fictional place, and it isn't necessary for us to try to recreate the conditions there to be Gorean.

I own a girl who has a profile here (edana). You might find it good to talk with her. To your question specifically, one of the things that I command of her is to fulfill all of the roles in her life (daughter, mother, friend, etc.) to a very high standard. She has more contact with her family now than she did when I took her as a slave. Why? you might ask. The simple answer is that it builds her self-esteem. Her image of herself is now one of a good and concientious daughter, friend, etc. As a result, she's a better human female, and serves me better because of it. She's simply more valuable to me.

When you take the cultural trappings away (not to say that we don't keep some of them, because we do), Gorean slavery is essentially chattel slavery much as it was practiced in ancient Greece or Rome. The essence of it is that the slave is the property of the master. Just as with any property, some men are better stewards than others. Some manage their property well, and increase the value of their holdings, and others neglect or abuse what they own, and thereby diminish its worth.

In this thread, you have a very good cross-section of the conceptions and mis-conceptions about our way of life that you're going to encounter if you continue to investigate. My best advice to you is don't continue to investigate. Forget about Goreans, and what they do. Throwing off the values that you were raised around in favor of a very different set is hard, and unless you are compelled to do so, it's probably not worth the effort. If you fail to heed that advice, my best advice to you is to continue reading the books, and as you do, try to consider what someone with the values that you see potrayed there might do if he, like me, had to live and get along in modern California. Then, when you've done that reading, talk to people like my girl who live this way every day. They will be the best sources of information for you, because it's living it that forces one to fully confront the questions that you'll have.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/10/2005 4:53:57 AM >


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Leonidas

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 6:50:23 AM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
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I always get somewhat confused when people concentrate on what is, to be honest, a badly written set of stories, and say that we live according to the stories.

The reality is, the stories are just that, a set of stories. What people seem to fail to take into account is the culture and principles that lies behind those stories. It also seems to escape some that those stories are written as being from the perspective of being on the fictional planet "Gor", a completely different environment than here on earth.

We don't think we live on Gor. And because we're actually reasonably intelligent people, we also acknowledge that some things that form part of the stories have no relevance to the real world, the environment we do live in. We live according to the philosophies and principles that lie behind those stories, as they apply in real life, this environment. That means we don't go off to work on tarns, we don't go visit the next city over on the map to steal and enslave a woman, and we don't suddenly disappear in a flash of blue flame for insulting the local preacher.

What we do however is live by a set of standards, many of which seem to be universal constants. When you strip away the terminology, the labels, you're likely to find that the philosophies and principles that we have chosen as a comfortable way to live exist in many of the more "acceptable" lifestyles and practices of the community. Yes, there are differences in philosophy that are specific to how we live our lives, but that could be said of any of the various sub-cultural groups within the community. Only when you put the labels back on, all of a sudden "Gorean" becomes a dirty word.

To say that "Gorean" is living according to a set of fantasy books is really not much of a valid statement, and shows a prejudicial view of the lifestyle that fails miserably to be of any purpose in a discussion, and is a casual dismissal that has no relevance. It would be more accurate to say that we live according to a set of philosophies that were taken from various periods in the history of our world, were collated, and then used as the foundation for a series of fantasy stories. John Norman didn't "invent" the philosophies that lie behind Gorean with his books, any more than de Sade "invented" BDSM with 101 Nights of Sodom. All he did was put it into words.

Is it a disciplined and strict way to live? Absolutely.

Is it for everyone? Not at all.

Is it the "One True Way"? Yes and No. Yes, It's the "One True Way" for each of us who lives according to those philosophies and standards, in that it is the One True Way we have found within ourselves for ourselves. No, it's not everyone's "One True Way". Others will find the "One True Way" that allows them to feel fulfilled and happy within themselves, whether it's the life we live or some other is going to be up to them to decide.

If you think that we try to live a fantasy, then I do feel kind of sorry for you that you're so blinded by bad stories you refuse to see beyond them, to what drove them.

If you think our way of life is somehow invalid, or not as "valid" as yours, then you're just falling into the "Universal" One True Way trap, and there's really no hope for you. Go play on SSB with JJ and Even Steven and Jon Jacobs and the rest.

It doesn't work for everyone, but we don't expect it to, don't demand it to. It works for us, individually. The is no "Universal One True Way". We all find the path that fits us, as individuals, and makes us happy.

Although I am curious ... why does our way of life scare so many people to rush to snap decisions, to rush to condemn it?

miika
proud collared and marked property

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 8:21:45 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
When you take the cultural trappings away (not to say that we don't keep some of them, because we do), Gorean slavery is essentially chattel slavery much as it was practiced in ancient Greece or Rome. The essence of it is that the slave is the property of the master. Just as with any property, some men are better stewards than others. Some manage their property well, and increase the value of their holdings, and others neglect or abuse what they own, and thereby diminish its worth.


This is why I think the Gorean lifestyle resonates so strongly with many people. Much like myself, there is a desire in some to own or be owned. Yet, being rational, those who want to be owned do not wish to be abused, mistreated, or seen as less than human.

The Gorean "code" provides a safety net to its slaves. They know there is a standard of treatment that is expected of slaves. There is a community from which to seek support. They have a shared base of knowledge and experience to help make the frightening practice of giving yourself away a bit easier.

In many ways, I respect the Gorean lifestyle for how it allows those who have a owner/property kink to fulfil that need. I am currently speaking with a Gorean girl who seems to be quite a nice fit for my style and proclivities. I think I sometimes need to apply a Gorean-Owner/property filter to the things I write, but it is actually a pretty easy translation.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 8:59:55 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: miikaawaadizi
Although I am curious ... why does our way of life scare so many people to rush to snap decisions, to rush to condemn it?


I am not sure the decisions made about Gor are always rushed. Essentially, here are a few of the problems many who have taken a look at the lifestyle (including myself) have (note: I am no expert in Gor. I have read the first 12 (or so) books and Imaginative Sex. I have had some lenghty online dicussions with a certain Gorean Master. I have done some limited online reading on how the "real" Gorean life differs from the books. I have spent a very limited in Gor based chat rooms. Please feel free to correct my assumptions and enlighten my notions.):

1) It is a very Male Top/female bottom centered lifestyle. Though there are exceptions, for the most part, women are expected to be slaves and men are expected to be Masters. For those who enjoy female dominance and male submission, this seems to be exclusionary and discriminitory. And since there is such a pride in the "code" and the lifestyle, this can come off as insulting to those who appreciate a bit more tolerance in gender roles.

2) It seems a bit simplistic in its approach to BDSM. Slave submits once and to any and all desires of the Master. For many, this lack of negotiation, limits, standards and safewords can seem a bit insane. Yet, what I think they miss, is that the very nature of Gor (with its code and protocol, its ingrained philosophy that slaves are not just property, but valuable property that should be cared for, nurtured, and prized) sets up a protection for the slave that mitigates the need for the saftey measures used by other BDSM practitioners.

3) Goreans (mostly) couldn't care less what others think of them. The kind of personality that is drawn to the Gorean lifestyle is typically the kind of person who isn't bothered by being misunderstood by the masses. There is such a gut-level reaction to the lifestyle, that it seems most Goreans believe that either you "get it", or you don't. And if you don't "get it", that really don't care to explain it to you... This attitude can be a little off-putting to those who are based in a community that values (over values?) out-reach and education.

4) Some people really have a problem with the concept of "ownership of humans." For some, that kink is not like other kinks. Not sure why this is, but I have faced it in my non-Gorean practice of owner/property relationships.

Hope that helps to explain some of the reactions you see to the Gorean life...

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 2/10/2005 9:02:57 AM >


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 10:48:33 AM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
1) It is a very Male Top/female bottom centered lifestyle. Though there are exceptions, for the most part, women are expected to be slaves and men are expected to be Masters. For those who enjoy female dominance and male submission, this seems to be exclusionary and discriminitory. And since there is such a pride in the "code" and the lifestyle, this can come off as insulting to those who appreciate a bit more tolerance in gender roles.


This is true to a certain degree. The philosophies are more oriented towards females have the potential to be slaves, rather than are guaranteed to be, though. One problem with going by the books is that they are focused on one particular set of characters, and the status of Free Women is rarely mentioned, and then only in passing, for the most part. Free Women on Gor are given a great deal of respect, and in real life that is also true, primarily because (I think) the standards that Gorean Men hold to, such as honour and integrity, require it.

The philosophies, having so much emphasis on individuality and people reaching the place they are best suited for as individuals, is very flexible in allowing for women to take their place, but because they are based not only on phychological but physiological matters, they do tend to favour men.

One of the reasons why few male submissives enter the lifestyle I think (though) is that the position of a kajirus, a male slave, is not very appealing to most male subs. Based around service, and exploiting the physical traits of the sub, is more the lot they face than the activities many male subs I've seen are seeking. For male subs, Gorean is not a welcoming lifestyle, but those kajiru I've encountered are as happy with their place as I am with mine, so it's not unheard of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
2) It seems a bit simplistic in its approach to BDSM. Slave submits once and to any and all desires of the Master. For many, this lack of negotiation, limits, standards and safewords can seem a bit insane. Yet, what I think they miss, is that the very nature of Gor (with its code and protocol, its ingrained philosophy that slaves are not just property, but valuable property that should be cared for, nurtured, and prized) sets up a protection for the slave that mitigates the need for the saftey measures used by other BDSM practitioners.


It's definately less complicated, although the formality may appear otherwise to some. I would have to agree with Your observation about why though. I think perhaps the reason why it's not seen the way You describe is because people focus solely on the keeping of slaves aspect of the philosophies. The philosophies aren't solely related to the slave aspect, they form a core set of ideals and standards for how to live. It's said that one does not need to own a slave to be a Gorean man, and I think that's very true. You don't need to have a slave to believe in honour, integrity, self knowledge, self-identify, sense of community, and a host of other traits the philosophies include as being the "proper behaviour" for a Gorean.

Those traits are a kajira's "safety net", in a way. As a kajira, I feel safe and secure, I know what is expected of me, I know what happens if I do as I should, I know what happens if I don't. I know my Master values me and He has said outright He will not harm me. Just as there are standards for Gorean Men that act as a "net" for kajirae, one of the requirements for kajirae compliments it - the demand to be open and honest at all times, "naked even when clothed". kajirae are required to not hold anything back from their Masters, and in doing so I think that fulfils the communication that is necessary.

Likewise, we don't really need safewords, because we don't "play" (in general). For Gorean slaves, the fulfilment comes from service, and being pleasing. That's not to say Sadists and Masochists can't be Gorean, just that those things which most of the community fixate on, physical play, aren't part of what we do or what we seek.

These are things that are part and parcel of the whole definition, removing the need for them to be discussed or presented beforehand. It's not something that needs to be said, it just "is".

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
3) Goreans (mostly) couldn't care less what others think of them. The kind of personality that is drawn to the Gorean lifestyle is typically the kind of person who isn't bothered by being misunderstood by the masses. There is such a gut-level reaction to the lifestyle, that it seems most Goreans believe that either you "get it", or you don't. And if you don't "get it", that really don't care to explain it to you... This attitude can be a little off-putting to those who are based in a community that values (over values?) out-reach and education.


Well, on this I have to agree, at least from my standpoint. I only have to worry about what one person thinks of me. But You're right in more ways I think because of the individuality that the philosophies stress, the self reliance. Gorean Men are very self-assured, that's part of what makes them what they are, but this comes about through self realization. Goreans are very self-aware and comfortable in their own skins, and they got there themselves. I think perhaps that's part of what's needed to come to it.

A lot of the philosophies are very hard to explain for a lot of us. I know I try hard, but sometimes words can't suffice. It's very much like trying to describe colour to a blind man in many respects, there's a lack of frame of reference there. This gets frustrating at times :) But most of the Goreans I know are more than happy to explain things to those that ask, they just tend to like the questions not to start out "So, you're a bunch of misogynistic bastards then?" :) One of the reasons #gorean is on the IRC server is so that people -can- come ask questions and explore. Yes, we get our share of smegheads in there, but so does all the other channels :)

For Goreans, community is very important. But Goreans won't spend time talking to someone whose mind is closed. For us, they have made their decision, that's their choice. Why should we waste time trying to explain things if it won't be heard? Practicality is also very Gorean :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
4) Some people really have a problem with the concept of "ownership of humans." For some, that kink is not like other kinks. Not sure why this is, but I have faced it in my non-Gorean practice of owner/property relationships.


Gorean slaves are seen as chattel property.

Of course, this is hideously illegal in most "civilized" cultures, but it still seems to be there, with us at least, somehow. The reason is simple - we choose to honour our choices and accept the consequences of those choices. We don't pick and choose from the philosophies the bits we like and toss away the rest. We stay true to our word and the choice we made to beg the collar of Goreans. We are happy to be in the place we have chosen to be, to be seen as we have chosen to be seen. So we stay there, voluntary chattel I guess. There are mechanisms to allow kajirae to get out of abusive situations, that safety net is present as well.

Being a Gorean slave, chattel property, does not mean "doormat". Anyone who's met me on IRC knows I am definately not a doormat, nor is edana or lil or several other kajirae that use CollarMe for now. We have pride, self respect, self-esteem - we know that we are worth something to the one whose steel is against our flesh. That gives us a sense of security that we build on and grow from as individuals. Our strength within ourselves is augmented and boosted and added to by our Master. We take our knowledge of our value, our confidence, from Him.

Yes, there are some who will say they're Goreans but really they're just abusive smegheads looking to beat up some woman. There's the same will take advantage and claim to be BDSM Masters or Owners too. We spot them just as quickly as the rest of the community does, and they don't stay around us for much longer after we do.

How is it any different for us that for other lifestyle slaves? I don't think it is. So I'm not sure that this point could really explain in part why people are so quick to condemn us.

Thank You for Your reply, I hope that my response has been able to let others understand us a bit better. At the very least, it's refreshing to be able to answer questions without having 4,000 lines of text go past in 30 seconds :)

miika
proud collared and marked property

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 11:34:28 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: miikaawaadizi
The philosophies aren't solely related to the slave aspect, they form a core set of ideals and standards for how to live. It's said that one does not need to own a slave to be a Gorean man, and I think that's very true. You don't need to have a slave to believe in honour, integrity, self knowledge, self-identify, sense of community, and a host of other traits the philosophies include as being the "proper behaviour" for a Gorean.


This might be another reason why Goreans aren't readily accepted in the "mainstream" BDSM community. Most real time BDSMers like their play and aren't looking for a life philosophy to follow.

Then there are others who reject the Gorean life philosophy because of its similarity to the philosophy espoused by Hitler (amongst others).

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to miikaawaadizi)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 11:40:31 AM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
This might be another reason why Goreans aren't readily accepted in the "mainstream" BDSM community. Most real time BDSMers like their play and aren't looking for a life philosophy to follow.


Which is all well and good, but they seem to take great delight in denigrating and insulting those who are looking for something different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
Then there are others who reject the Gorean life philosophy because of its similarity to the philosophy espoused by Hitler (amongst others).


Good ideas always manage to get hijacked by people who implement it badly for their own purposes. Look at de Sade (amongst others).

miika
proud collared and marked property

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 11:59:01 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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One last point...a lot of people bristle at the made up language. They laughed at those who spoke Tolkien's Elvish. They laugh at those who speak Star Trek's Klingon.

Gor isn't even a language as much as it is a set of made up words for which there are perfectly good English words. That can make people see what it is you do as more role-play than lifestyle choice.

Taggard

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My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 12:28:33 PM   
nella


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From: Norway
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Waring: One of nella`s rants, Waring ended.

i get sick and tired over, oh this is bad becouse Hitler did so. i have Aspergers syndom, so do my Dom, we stand a 70 percent chance of having an autistic child. So i spoke whit the doctor aboute sterilisation. The Doctor look down at me and in not so many words called me a nazi becouse i would want my self sterilised becouse i would not want an autistic child. i know the hell of living whit Aspergers syndrom somtimes, and if i was to reise a child, it would be an adopted one, i would not want to bring a troubeld child into this world. And since i dont fancy an abortion, and probably would not be abel to do so, i would like to be sure i could not have a baby. But that do not make me a nazi, but becouse Hitler would probably have wanted to sterelise all whit a risk of an child whit problems like this, the doctor belived me a nazi.

one other thing is the investigation of the leged of Atalntis. Hitler, being an Occultist,used the teory of Atalntis in his hunting down of pepole he did not like. For in the leged it say: Tall, white pepole coming from nowere and teatching pepole crafts. Many belive theese tall white pepole to be from Atlantis. Hitler said that see, the so developed Atlantians was wite, the white race must be superior. But later, when pepole want to investigate the legend, they are called nazi by many both in an out of the Occult sosiety, becouse Hitler was interested in it. On the same note, his main symbol the sun cross is a powerful pagan symbol, but i can not wear it becouse Hitler did. So in my opinion, if Hitler did this or that is of littel relevance. Just dont start harassing and hurt pepole and become rasistic and then dont care what Hitler belived. Hitler probably wiped his rear after using the rest room, should we all stop doing that then?

forgive my outburst.

Rant ended.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 12:38:28 PM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
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Don't let it get to you, nella. It's a well held principle of bad debating technique that when you're losing miserably, throw in something controversial to try and get someone else to start ranting, whilst you sit back and blink innocently going "wow!" Hitler and Nazis is always a surefire one to use in such instances.

miika
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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 12:39:36 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nella
Hitler probably wiped his rear after using the rest room, should we all stop doing that then?


Well...it runs a bit deeper than that.

http://gornz.tripod.com/

Taggard

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A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 12:48:19 PM   
nella


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From: Norway
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Thank miikaawaadizi, wow i actualy think i manged to spell the name right, i must be getting better at spelling. You have a werry butiful name by the way, but it is not easy to write for a dyslectic to write, but it is werry butiful.

All i am saying is that just becouse Hitler had a philosophy, dont make that philosophy bad. He was a man that was for example extremly against steeling, is that bad becouse he belived in it. He was a man, a monster that did unspeakabel things, but not all of what he did emidiatly become bad.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Gor: How do I know what should be taken to heart? - 2/10/2005 12:56:46 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nella
All i am saying is that just becouse Hitler had a philosophy, dont make that philosophy bad. He was a man that was for example extremly against steeling, is that bad becouse he belived in it. He was a man, a monster that did unspeakabel things, but not all of what he did emidiatly become bad.


I completly agree. Whatever value judgment you place on Nazi philosophy is beyond the scope of my post. It is just that many people have rejected the Nazi "survival of the fittest" philosophy and reject it again when they see it being called "Gorean philosophy."

I am simply trying to explain why so many people heap scorn upon the Goreans. It is not always a knee-jerk reaction. For some, it is a principled and reasoned rejection of a philosophy they do not agree with.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to nella)
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