On training

On training (Full Version)

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Missokyst -> On training (9/12/2006 8:02:52 PM)
This is probably going to put me into the controversial list, but I never minded the spot light so here goes. I wanted to talk about training. Since joining a couple of days ago I have been getting a few offers to train me. Not that many really, but just enough. I love men and love chatting, which is why I am here. I don't mind getting mail from my favorite sex at all. But this training idea has me confused. I have been engaging in bdsm for many years. :D There is very little about it that I don't enjoy, provided I have tried it under good circumstances. My confusion lay in the idea that someone has to train me to respond. If you are beating someone, or putting them through the paces of intense orgasms, they WILL respond. We who bottom or submit are merely canvasses on which a top displays his talents. Our response is colored by the implements you choose to use, to get your idea across. We are art. The top is the artist. With that in mind, very few canvasses need to be trained to be a canvas. But the ARTIST whose talents are displayed, must train to learn his craft. I think the idea of training is backward. I am the canvas. I will be colored according to your design. The top is the artist who must learn to paint.

OhReallyNow -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 8:08:19 PM)
*Personally, i think that this is very true.* *Nice post [:)]*

MagiksSlave -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 8:10:29 PM)
WOW that was an awsome post very well said and honestly a lot I do agree with not all but a lot. Magik's slave

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 8:11:11 PM)
Well if you've been around awhile, you know that "training" from random cyber strangers on almost first emails is always code for "let me do kinky stuff to you and make you feel like you're going somewhere with it and hunting up fresh hopefully clueless meat is the only way I can get play partners" Secondly, training IS a viable thing. Training to learn techniques, standards, tolerances, change tolerances, reactions, behavioral reactions and mindsets and other things are all very trainable and things that most long term relationship dominants take into account when in a relationship with someone. As well, training someone NOT your submissive is perfectly viable. If I want my sub to learn how to cook a certain style, and I don't know how to do it, sending him off to be trained is perfectly reasonable. As well, being trained by someone who isn't your dom isn't necessarily bad- life coaches as they are popularly called these days are pretty much these people. External perspectives who work to get your life in shape and help you break out of your old patterns into a better you. However, the chances that anyone who brings up training within a few days of knowing you isn't anyone you'd actually want training you. Oh and I'll add that the painter/canvas metaphor is a nice image, but not really reality. You aren't blank, he isn't god with a paintbrush. It's a work of coordination and cooperation.

juliaoceania -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 8:30:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Secondly, training IS a viable thing. Training to learn techniques, standards, tolerances, change tolerances, reactions, behavioral reactions and mindsets and other things are all very trainable and things that most long term relationship dominants take into account when in a relationship with someone. I would agree with this from my perspective as both dominants I have been involved with brought up "training" from a LTR stance. What we learn from each dominant is often specific to that dominant, so it really doesn't make sense to train with a dom unless you plan on being around them and serving them awhile. quote: Oh and I'll add that the painter/canvas metaphor is a nice image, but not really reality. You aren't blank, he isn't god with a paintbrush. It's a work of coordination and cooperation. And here my Daddy insisted I was going to be his tabula rasa! Are you saying that just ain't so! Damn, I so wanted to be his little empty headed plaything!

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 8:33:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania And here my Daddy insisted I was going to be his tabula rasa! Are you saying that just ain't so! Damn, I so wanted to be his little empty headed plaything! See now you get why I like objectification so much. :) It's a great headspace to get into for awhile, but not really viable for life situations.

Missokyst -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 8:50:09 PM)
I do agree that for some things training is necessary. I could not, for instance, tango, simply because someone is guiding my steps. It would require repetition, and.. well.. more talent than I possess. A skill like tea service can be learned, and one would hope that formal training would be supplied. But a life coach... this would require skills from the top. Or a darned good school in which to learn new skills. But you are right, most people who offer training without even knowing you probably isn't a good choice. Regarding the canvas image. Even the canvas started out as fiber before it was stretched into a sheet. And before that, it was probably pulled off of some animals back. And the top being the artist? It is a work of coordination and cooperation. But the top is not god, he is only laying on the design. God is the one aging the work and giving it texture. quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Well if you've been around awhile, you know that "training" from random cyber strangers on almost first emails is always code for "let me do kinky stuff to you and make you feel like you're going somewhere with it and hunting up fresh hopefully clueless meat is the only way I can get play partners" Secondly, training IS a viable thing. Training to learn techniques, standards, tolerances, change tolerances, reactions, behavioral reactions and mindsets and other things are all very trainable and things that most long term relationship dominants take into account when in a relationship with someone. As well, training someone NOT your submissive is perfectly viable. If I want my sub to learn how to cook a certain style, and I don't know how to do it, sending him off to be trained is perfectly reasonable. As well, being trained by someone who isn't your dom isn't necessarily bad- life coaches as they are popularly called these days are pretty much these people. External perspectives who work to get your life in shape and help you break out of your old patterns into a better you. However, the chances that anyone who brings up training within a few days of knowing you isn't anyone you'd actually want training you. Oh and I'll add that the painter/canvas metaphor is a nice image, but not really reality. You aren't blank, he isn't god with a paintbrush. It's a work of coordination and cooperation.

juliaoceania -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 9:03:44 PM)
I like the analogy of a sculptor, you are the slab of marble from which a masterpiece must be crafted, and only your dominant can see what you could become if he just freed you from the rock that holds you captive... ah how romantic!

TheMightyBitch -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 9:20:25 PM)
I am impressed with missokysts post!

juliaoceania -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 9:37:43 PM)
Yes her posts seem fine so far... did you think I was picking on her because I was just making conversation actually.

MasterNdorei -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 10:13:53 PM)
The OP stated the position she described as bottom or sub... i think she defined the dynamic extremely well. So long as the dynamic is by design only for the duration of the scene, the artist and canvas definition is beautiful. Wouldn't the need for training arise only when a dynamic that exceeds a scene is indicated? i am just curios... thankfully it has been a while since obnoxious Doms have offered these things to me... but aren't the ones offering training hinting at more than just a scene? Humbly, Master's dorei

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 10:43:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Yes her posts seem fine so far... did you think I was picking on her because I was just making conversation actually. My guess is that fast reply was used. She didn't say anything about your post or what you said.

juliaoceania -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 10:48:58 PM)
I was just making sure that I did not offend anyone, I tend to do this unwittingly more often than I like. (getting a complex...smiles)

Missokyst -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 10:52:53 PM)
Nah. I am rarely offended. And I DO love discussions! Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I was just making sure that I did not offend anyone, I tend to do this unwittingly more often than I like. (getting a complex...smiles)

juliaoceania -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 10:57:21 PM)
Im glad...lol. I enjoyed reading your OP

Missokyst -> RE: On training (9/12/2006 10:58:01 PM)
A buddy of mine who is on this list says I am "New Meat". I think those sort of offers are routinely sent by people hoping for a score. I am not sure if they want more than a scene, but I would suspect not. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: MasterNdorei i am just curios... thankfully it has been a while since obnoxious Doms have offered these things to me... but aren't the ones offering training hinting at more than just a scene? Humbly, Master's dorei

ayasha -> RE: On training (9/13/2006 12:38:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I wanted to talk about training. Since joining a couple of days ago I have been getting a few offers to train me. Not that many really, but just enough. I love men and love chatting, which is why I am here. I don't mind getting mail from my favorite sex at all. But this training idea has me confused. If you are beating someone, or putting them through the paces of intense orgasms, they WILL respond. We who bottom or submit are merely canvasses on which a top displays his talents. Our response is colored by the implements you choose to use, to get your idea across. We are art. The top is the artist. THAT is what the difference is - you consider yourself a bottom, submissive during a play session. No, that does not take training. Training is for those that are interested in becoming a slave, or becoming a better slave - and those that offer to train others before getting to know them obviously do not know what they are doing - so it is good that you have asked about this.

Focus50 -> RE: On training (9/13/2006 4:04:04 AM)
The flaw in your canvas analogy is that it just sits there; it doesn't have to be taught (or trained) to do anything else. My sub generally hasta work a bit harder than that.... lol If you have BDSM experience, you probably know that "training" is a matter of learning what pleases an individual Dom and what doesn't. No two Dom/mes are alike so we all "train" our subs to serve and please to our unique expectations. But in terms of email or chat programs, those who openly profess to train like it's a required minimum standard for all subs are usually the wankers looking to get their hooks into fresh and hopefully naive meat. In a written media, "training" is little more than a buzz-word used both to validate said dom's "credentials" (they're usually "strict", too) and in a context of bait to entice unworldly newbies looking to explore their fantasies. *While you may have r/l experience, what you haven't grasped is that, in joining this site, you inadvertantly laid your own bait for wankers out there - you're new! <gasp> lol* Focus.

Wolfie648 -> RE: On training (9/13/2006 4:26:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I wanted to talk about training. Since joining a couple of days ago I have been getting a few offers to train me. I have been engaging in bdsm for many years. :D There is very little about it that I don't enjoy, provided I have tried it under good circumstances. My confusion lay in the idea that someone has to train me to respond. Ah, qualifications. what = good? (rhetorical). Not specified. quote: If you are beating someone, or putting them through the paces of intense orgasms, they WILL respond. We who bottom or submit are merely canvasses on which a top displays his talents. Our response is colored by the implements you choose to use, to get your idea across. We are art. The top is the artist. Define implements. Physical or mental. A person beats a random person on the street they will - (most likely) get arrested)). You beat someone who wants to be beat and they cum their faces off, great. Whoopdie doo. Start playing with those that don't want to (I'm not talking non-consensual - I'm talking consensual and towel wringing) _and_ making them knock their socks off by not letting them knock their socks off and we can talk turkey. A=b or B=a c=whatever works for you. quote: With that in mind, very few canvasses need to be trained to be a canvas. But the ARTIST whose talents are displayed, must train to learn his craft. The last sub/slave/canvas I knew that said she knew everything I had to teach her, was seriously mistaken. BDSM can be an art. Many artists destroy their own creations fyi - because they don't meet their expectations of what should be. Art or rationality? random extra thoughts. D (owner of j)

TNstepsout -> RE: On training (9/13/2006 4:34:07 AM)
Yup- I was confused about that too when I first signed up and started getting those emails. I had no idea what the concept of training was. I joked with a couple of guys that I didn't need to be trained, that I had learned to pee on the paper a long time ago. (that didn't go over well) It seems these "training" types take themselves pretty seriously. I still don't quite get it, but when used in the context of service rather than play it makes more sense. Being taught exactly how to serve and please a particular Dom, how he likes his coffee, where he wants you to stand, walk, sit, lay out his clothes, run his bath etc.... However, since these things vary so much from one person to another it seems pretty worthless to be trained in these things unless the relationship is meant to be permanent. Doesn't keep 'em from trying though.

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