RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an incentive for the results

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RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:31:16 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

THEY made a mistake. Look at this:

She complains to __________ will listen.
whoever
whomever
Either A or B
Neither A or B

They claim the answer is B, "whomever," and that's wrong. The case of "whoever" is determined by its function in its own clause, and it's the subject of "listen." So it must be "She complains to whoever will listen" (but "She complains to whomever she hogties").

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)

Post #: 21

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:35:52 AM

MDsweetangel

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline

Was this test compiled by an American?? I have no quibbles with how you guys use grammar but here in the UK things are done different... I got some wrong that I know that ARE right... who can I complain to?? lol I'm going to stand my ground on this one and will fight for my rights!

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 22

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:39:10 AM

prdslave

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline

87.72 Don't tell my dad, he was an English teacher.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 23

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:40:19 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Cool...then I got another one right. I like 95% better! :)

BTW...MS Word agrees with you, Sir.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 24

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:41:04 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

What did you get wrong that you believe is right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDsweetangel

Was this test compiled by an American?? I have no quibbles with how you guys use grammar but here in the UK things are done different... I got some wrong that I know that ARE right... who can I complain to?? lol I'm going to stand my ground on this one and will fight for my rights!

(in reply to MDsweetangel)

Post #: 25

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:41:57 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

i got 94% on that test and im prowd of it cuz i have goood grammer skils and cood figer most of it out by saund so there

yours

benji

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(in reply to prdslave)

Post #: 26

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:42:42 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

LaM - whomever is definitely correct as the accusative/dative form. Its the "to" which invokes the case change.

Whoever could be used in the instance "She complains to anyone, whoever will listen" perhaps, but the lack of a comma in the example indicates that whomever is whom she compains to, rather than whoever is who will listen.

Anyway, never mind all that. I got 100%, and now I miss out on a spanking. Crikey its tough to be bright.
E

(in reply to MDsweetangel)

Post #: 27

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:46:59 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

That's not correct, LadyEllen, and this isn't a matter of opinion. Look up the usage of "whoever" in a grammar book. Its case is determined by its function in the relative clause. (Think of it this way: the object of "to" is "whoever will listen," not "whomever." But look it up if you don't believe me.)

Edited to add: I'm sorry that this means you didn't really get 100% on that test.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

LaM - whomever is definitely correct as the accusative/dative form. Its the "to" which invokes the case change.

Whoever could be used in the instance "She complains to anyone, whoever will listen" perhaps, but the lack of a comma in the example indicates that whomever is whom she compains to, rather than whoever is who will listen.

Anyway, never mind all that. I got 100%, and now I miss out on a spanking. Crikey its tough to be bright.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/15/2006 8:47:58 AM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 28

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:55:24 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Just to nip this nonsense in the bud--

Look at The Oxford English Grammar, section 4.43D, example 51:

quote:

I was just wondering if it was worth complaining to whoever was in charge ...

Or look at Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage, under the entry "whoever." Same deal.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 29

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:58:21 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

LaM - we will have to disagree on that one then! I often reference German grammar and cases in such instances to get bearings, and if complains were a German verb, it would no doubt come with its own preposition and invoke accusative or dative case. This isnt to say English and German grammar are the same of course, but German having a proper grammar (!) it's helpful in such instances.

I think if we compared a sentence like "she complains to him", which has the acc/dat case of he (rather than "she complains to he"), with this one, its clear that the compound verb "complains to" must take an acc/dat object "whomever" rather than a nominative "whoever".

Anyway, I'm English and you're American, so how you can lecture me on the language I don't understand LOL! Mind you, at least if you were right I'd get my spanking.
E

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 30

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 4:40:40 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

This problem doesn't arise in German, because in German you insert a helpful antecedent pronoun indicating the case of the noun represented in the relative clause--for example, "Ich hasse denjenigen, der mein Buch geklaut hat." You can see that the cases of "denjenigen" and "der" aren't the same. "Denjenigen" is an antecedent pronoun; it helps you avoid this whole problem.

In English, we don't do that; in fact, it's considered strictly ungrammatical in Modern English to insert antecedent pronouns. (You find it all the time in Middle English, however, and there are still plenty of examples in the King James Bible.) All you have is a relative pronoun, and the case of the pronoun is determined by its function in the relative clause, NOT by its function in the main clause. "She complains to him" isn't a relevant example because there's no relative clause. More to the point would be "She complains to the fellow WHO sits at the Complaints Desk" (and not "to the fellow WHOM sits at the Complaints Desk," which is what your reasoning would yield). "Who" has to be in the nominative in that sentence because it's the subject of "sits," even though it's the object of "to."

The spanking comes free of charge, by the way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

LaM - we will have to disagree on that one then! I often reference German grammar and cases in such instances to get bearings, and if complains were a German verb, it would no doubt come with its own preposition and invoke accusative or dative case. This isnt to say English and German grammar are the same of course, but German having a proper grammar (!) it's helpful in such instances.

I think if we compared a sentence like "she complains to him", which has the acc/dat case of he (rather than "she complains to he"), with this one, its clear that the compound verb "complains to" must take an acc/dat object "whomever" rather than a nominative "whoever".

Anyway, I'm English and you're American, so how you can lecture me on the language I don't understand LOL! Mind you, at least if you were right I'd get my spanking.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 31

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 6:48:53 PM

LeMis

Posts: 9255
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Florida
Status: offline

You scored 92.98%.

Damn

I accidentally skipped 3 questions...

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 32

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor - 9/15/2006 6:54:37 PM

jojoluvr

Posts: 441
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

You scored 100%.

so did i! :)

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jojo

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 33

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor - 9/15/2006 7:14:25 PM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jojoluvr

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

You scored 100%.

so did i! :)

So did any one get spanked because of the score yet?

Ross

(in reply to jojoluvr)

Post #: 34

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 8:36:28 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

I did aaight, except for missing a couple of questions, I suppose I deserve the lower score, though I'm not one to strive for perfection anyway.
You scored 91.23%.
M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/15/2006 8:41:20 PM >

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(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)

Post #: 35

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 9:50:08 PM

glidewynd

Posts: 91
Joined: 7/2/2005
Status: offline

You scored 91.23%.

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glidewynd

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(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 36

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/15/2006 11:15:00 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Didn't care enough to take the test lol.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 37

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/16/2006 3:32:49 AM

owneddesire

Posts: 245
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline

78.95%

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 38

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/16/2006 7:17:32 AM

zumala

Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline

You scored 85.96%.

I am most heartily embarrassed. Good God, someone really should slap me for that.

zuma

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)

Post #: 39

RE: proper grammer/grammar/grammor with spanking an an ... - 9/16/2006 11:39:01 AM

xhoneyx

Posts: 304
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

You scored 96.49%.

yay!~ i only missed one..*^_^*

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honey <3

(in reply to zumala)

Post #: 40

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