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RE: Sub Drop - 9/18/2006 8:47:17 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, I did.  The essence of your explanation is this sentence:

quote:

During a scene or sexual arousal there is a measurable release and rise of several hormones (example: adrenalin, endorphins, oxytocin) into your blood stream.


That may explain some of it, but it doesn't explain why, as I've observed, people in long-distance relationships tend to drop harder.  There's more to it than endorphins.

I would agree there is more to it than endorphins.  Couldn't really say what, other than I would feel very clingy and miss him afterwards.  I'm not quite ready to let go of his scent, his body heat, his breath, and the feel of him, and I want to hear from him a lot afterwards.  I don't always get to, but I still want to.  It has become less difficult over time.  He has taught me to recover more gently, as opposed to crashing into a brick wall, which is what it used to seem like.  Now I just feel quiet inside for awhile, and then all is well.

LaM, your comment about it being related to grief intrigued me.  That certainly is something to ponder.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Sub Drop - 9/18/2006 11:22:33 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The fact that people in long-distance relationships tend to have more intense sub drop makes me think "missing someone"--however you want to express that physiologically--has to be part of the whole experience.


You know, i have had three 6 day visits in less than 2 months (and another in 2 days!)   but i haven't experienced "more intense sub drop"..  only the tinge of separation that happens when you need to fill those hours without the presence of your guest.

It's possible that my situation doen't incline me to hang my whole psyche on His presence because i also have my primary here.. so i don't magnify every emotion to dramatise O/our parting.. although if i have a scene that creates the chemical high, i will also experience the chemical low.  that doesn't have to be a mood altering issue if all other things are in good shape.

i just see "sub drop" as the rebound reaction to the endorphins released during scening..  vs the overall emotional array people undergo in living life... they are not the same thing.  although one can aggrevate the other, much like drinking when one is already upset.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Sub Drop - 9/19/2006 6:32:05 PM   
pineapplesub


Posts: 39
Joined: 11/23/2004
Status: offline 		Wow.  It's been a while since I logged on, so thank you all for your replies.  I noticed a lot of people mentioning that it sounded like I was just sad after leaving a great vacation-  I guess I should also point out that I feel it when I am still with him, upon occasion, as well.  It's just not as difficult to go through, because I am not alone then.  I mean, I've gone on other vacations to see people, and I miss them when I leave, but not to this degree.  It also isn't just about missing him- it's not like the thought about him not being there any more is what is really sticking me in the side.  I just feel very down, and depressed about everything, and I get anxious and irritable.  The down could be explained by coming home again, but I don't get anxious, generally speaking.  I don't know if that really clears anything up, but there it is, nonetheless.  :)

~val~

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Sub Drop - 9/19/2006 7:37:20 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I like to compare subdrop to running a marathon and then stopping. No cool down, no rehydration, etc. You know in a situation like that you would be cramping and ill.

Subdrop was worse when we were LDR because we crammed more play and more intense play into a shorter period of time. We would ignore need for food, water, and sleep in order to get our play needs met. And after using the body hard, I would drop and sometimes he would also.

These days we're together so if we play intensely, we have the rest of the day to recover, we don't immediately have to pull ourselves together and drive several hours when we are already tired and fatigued. And that I think is what makes it worse, the having to find a reserve of energy in an already depleted body in order to safely make it home while fighting to keep your eyes open the whole time.

(in reply to pineapplesub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 12:31:48 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
Hello everybody,

Thank you for the opportunity to post in your forums.

I arrived home this evening from teaching the most physically demanding and difficult class we teach, which is defense against the armed assailant.  In this case, I am the armed assailant.  I am not a submissive, but I have been spending some time this evening reading about "sub drop" because the things I am experiencing this evening seem related.

I have spent the past 4 hours engaged in my mock assailant job engaged in fights (in my armor) which were the most vicious fights I give the student (I have a professionalism about what I do; I want to go to sleep knowing I did everything I could to help her learn to fight for her life against some sick bastard who pulls a gun or knife or club on her) and the most savage beatings I take in my armor.  I have numerous bruises on the unarmored parts of my body, including but not limited to my arms, legs, and a portion of the side of my stomach that does not have an armor covering.  Presumably, I am a mass of endorphins.

During these fights, I become extremely adrenalized, sweat a quart an hour, have a profoundly tiring workout.

Add to that the fact that I have deep emotional feelings about the subject matter we are teaching, which is women (in this case) fighting for their lives against a person with a knife, a gun, or a club, and I find I am somewhat of a mess tonight.  At the risk of sounding like a spineless wuss, I feel rather weepy at the moment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvermoon

No offense, but subdrop is not 'missing someone' or 'returning to regular life' is a physiological and psychological reaction to stimuli and a result of a withdrawl from chemical wash produced in the blood stream, as well as other factors.



What do you do to recover from the emotional and physical effects of a hard scene?  I am used to the feelings I get teaching self defense, but it is nights like tonight when I know I will not be asleep before 3am, have to get up at 5:30am, and feel the most productive use of my time would be to crawl under the covers and sob, when I find myself genuinely curious how the hell submissives get through this?

Thank you for your time and consideration for my question.

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 7:34:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Personally, this slave has never interpreted “sub-drop” as a negative or bad experience.  It’s a gift to be used by Master and every tired, sore spot is radiating "YAY!!!".  Depressed, agitated, angry, weepy, confused, attention-seeking, etc…nope.  It’s a “good to be alive” kind of feeling that lasts for days, however this slave believes it has a lot to do with her masochistic slave mindset on the way in, sort of like how your emotional state might affect your trip after you’ve dropped acid.  Haven’t conducted any scientific experiments on the matter, just relating one’s own experience.

However, after more than two decades of  hormonal roller-coaster hell and strenuous physical/emotional situations, this slave has developed strategies to deal with any hormonally generated discomfort like owning up to the source, making sure plenty of Kleenex is handy, keeping chocolate in the house at all times, drinking plenty of fluids, using herbal remedies, taking hot baths, and meditating daily.  It has helped a TON.

Coincidentally, it’s the same advice many folks give as to what they do when they are feeling the negative effects of their sub-drop, minus the “ask your Dom to cuddle you” part.

Master is of the opinion that folks who experience what you and others describe after a hard scene have some sort of deep-seated, perhaps even unconscious, loathing of self and/or the act(s) they just participated in.

good luck!

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 8:50:05 AM   
PrincessEllie


Posts: 287
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		It sounds like you have a classic case of subdrop. If your Dom can't be there to guide you through it, you will just have to deal with the anxiety and depression. I suggest eating a bowl of chocolate ice cream and watching  a romantic comedy. [This is also the same rememdy I give for PMS, go figure...]

And I'm usually the last person to suggest medication, but if you are like me and have a large amount of anxiety that comes with your subdrop I would suggest consulting your doctor. They made perscription medication for anxiety that you can take before a scene to reduce the badness of your subdrop. I have mild anxiety disorder [OCD, GAD, and PD]and it helps me bundles as a precaution. 

_____________________________

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May break my bones
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So tie me up
Or hold me down
And bite me baby, bite me!

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(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 8:52:01 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		There is also top drop, they go through it, too!

I'd say read these and all the other threads, keep hydrated, rested, well fed and do something luxurious for yourself.  Give it time.

Next time, try and anticipate.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PrincessEllie)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 11:24:06 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

There is also top drop, they go through it, too!

I'd say read these and all the other threads, keep hydrated, rested, well fed and do something luxurious for yourself.  Give it time.

Next time, try and anticipate.


Exactly what I told him when we talked on the phone after I woke up and read his post...

I also suggested chocolate... I wish I was there to give him affection because that really helps me when coming off endorphins

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 11:43:40 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
Thank you all for the input.  Happily, I learned long ago that feelings just are, and I dont allow them to control my actions.  Nonetheless, I did make a command decision today that the next time I do this particular class, I am NOT going to work the next day.  Weepy and longshoreman morpheme-expressing standing around with testosterone fogged people doing he/she-man/woman stuff dont mix. 

Well, maybe it does.  The person directing my work told me to stand by (wait for work) at 7:03am, and had not actually given me anything to do prior to my going to lunch at 11.  So I sat in my 26 ton forklift, drank coffee and water and a Monster (low carb), read three magazines, talked to strumpet on the phone, and finished reading one of the books in my dock bag.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 11:50:32 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It really depends.  Some people prefer to work after a crisis because it's a structured distraction.  Some people can't work through it.

I can't go back to work right after a big kink event because I feel too repressed and angry at being repressed.  But I like going to work after drop because otherwise I'd be buried in bed under a mound of covers and wallowing too much.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 11:54:24 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Sinergy, I'm glad to hear you are feeling better.  I have nothing to add other than consider drinking more water before and after the classes.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 5:18:48 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Sinergy, I'm glad to hear you are feeling better.  I have nothing to add other than consider drinking more water before and after the classes.


Thank you.

I drink about a gallon of water during class, 2 quarts on the way home, and have had 1/2 gallon today and will have more before I go to bed.

I wish I was feeling better.  I did not want to go to work today, but the problem with my job is that it is extremely easy to not go to work.  So I made the decision way back when to work 40 hours a week, and I have already taken my 2 days off for the week.  I would feel remiss of my abilities as a Dominant of another person if I was incapable of controlling my own behavior.  The irony would slay me.  I am just happy I am home and can relax and put my feet up and fall asleep when the sun goes down.

I know from experience that there is a 24-36 hour recovery period, so tomorrow I will be fine.

Enjoy your evening, and thanks to everybody who posted.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Sub Drop - 5/16/2007 5:31:55 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

I'm going to go with tiger on this one.  I have often thought "Subdrop" was no more than being taken out of the ordinary for a short time, then having to go home, alone, to face the reality of every day life.
  I disagree. Subdrop is an endorphin hangover. The after effects of being in an altered state. It's biological. Long distance runners experience the same thing.

I believe that the OP could be suffering depression similar to what happens after the holidays. Or maybe a combination of both.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Sub Drop - 5/19/2007 2:24:17 PM   
mynded


Posts: 137
Joined: 8/20/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for sharing this very informative article...

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Sub Drop - 5/19/2007 3:32:45 PM   
subinmi


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Sinergy,
       Just get under the covers and sob if you feel thats best.  Really.   When i played with my Sir he always did aftercare  and when he felt i was ready i left and drove home.  Usually 1/2 to 1 hr after leaving i would disolve into tears.  No reason.  Just a mass of tears.  He explained it was just a bit of sub drop and not to be frightened but just accept it and let it happen.  It worked well for me.
    By the way thank you for the mock assailent job you do and the punishment you take, the confidence you allow those women to gain from beating on you empowers them in many areas of their life.   i took a class like that and the experience was incredible!

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Sub Drop - 5/20/2007 12:17:40 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Sinergy, instead of just water what about adding an electrolyte drink or two. And if there's time between lessons, eat something like a piece of cheese and a bit of fruit.

Personally I find I need sleep immediately and food afterwards. Driving is one of the worst things because you need to be focused at a time when you don't have the ability to. Could you sleep in the car for ten minutes, keep a power bar there to give you quick energy?

And are you careful to get a good night's sleep the night before you teach this? Do you eat well during that day? Precare is as helpful as aftercare.

(in reply to subinmi)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Sub Drop - 5/20/2007 7:45:29 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subinmi

Sinergy,
      Just get under the covers and sob if you feel thats best.  Really.   When i played with my Sir he always did aftercare  and when he felt i was ready i left and drove home.  Usually 1/2 to 1 hr after leaving i would disolve into tears.  No reason.  Just a mass of tears.  He explained it was just a bit of sub drop and not to be frightened but just accept it and let it happen.  It worked well for me.
   By the way thank you for the mock assailent job you do and the punishment you take, the confidence you allow those women to gain from beating on you empowers them in many areas of their life.   i took a class like that and the experience was incredible!


Thank you for this, subinmi.  Sometimes I need to reminded the emotions just are, and to replenish my ability to accept the ones I make myself experience.  People say "gee, your job sounds fun" and I want to scream at them.

Thank you as well, Celeste43, but I beat you to it.  The water I drink has Emergen-C with glucosamine and chondroiton in it for electrolytes, vitamines, etc.

Respectfully,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to subinmi)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Sub Drop - 5/21/2007 2:01:02 AM   
ennaozzie


Posts: 201
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		With most in your situation it woud be not wanting to leave, is more like it, there could be a million things you could choose to keep yourself busy till you got used to been away agian till the next time.
i only say this from what you have written unless someone walks in your shoes they can not realy be sure of what its all about, i have never heard of sub drop myself i have read below your post on others opinions, you say in your post that it happens when you leave to go back home after a visit i am assuming not after a scene or something similar that is why i am thinking its more you dont want to go, but then i have not walked in  your shoes, you could recieve many different answers as people taking what you have asked differently.

_____________________________

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If coffee hurts your eye's take the spoon out of the mug

(in reply to pineapplesub)
Profile   Post #: 59
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