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sub/slave - 9/25/2006 3:22:17 PM

patina

Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline

I know this topic has been brought up before but I think we will be confused on it for a long time because we all perceive it differently.

My question is Why does a Dom change the status of a person when he/she clearly states what they desire to be?

If a sub comes to you to be a sub why does a Dom start addressing that sub as a slave a few days later and when that sub say's wait I agreeded to be a sub, you are told "I am the master do as I say be quiet slave". If you refuse He says you do not want to be of the lifestyle you are just playing at it.

I think we have to many wanna be Master playing at it.

Maybe I have answered my own question. Maybe we need to start monitoring and demanding accountability from our own groups as all have the wanna be players. The problem is how?

I actually have an idea. It was done on a diff. site.

Patina

_____________________________

a diamond in the rough

Post #: 1

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 3:59:22 PM

innatedesire

Posts: 111
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

First forgive me for posting a response as this is the "Ask a Master" section and i am not a Master......

Thank you!! I was just thinking about this the other day. i clearly state that i am submssive in my profile yet i get responses from those who are seeking slaves. {But if I found that all elusive perfect (maybe i have time will tell) fit I could find myself being a slave to the right one.} But I digress i am also curious to know why some do this....is it not like accepting less than what you want and/or need? Or is this taking a sub in hopes you can change them into a slave?
Again sorry if i stepped out of bounds on responding.........

(in reply to patina)

Post #: 2

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 4:03:49 PM

MASTERRocker

Posts: 277
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Kitchener-Waterloo, ON
Status: offline

JUst because someone tells you that you are 'something' does not make it a reality.......
There is a difference between submissive and slave - but unfortunately 'some' Doms ( Not true Master's) want to own and lord over anyone who is weaker and intinidated easily..... a 'label' is nothing if the heart does not truly believe it.........
MASTER Rocker

(in reply to innatedesire)

Post #: 3

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 4:33:08 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I am not so big into lables and their definitions. You can call yourself Grand poobah of D/s and if it does not fit with my desires and requirements, we won't work.

I would concentrate more on the actions and making sure that you are both compatible. Everyone's definition will be different, so it's sometimes difficult to go on that alone. Communication is, as always, essential. Taking your time to get to know someone will give you a better chance of ensuring that you know and can accept all the person has to offer.

For me, I would consider those who identify either as a sub or a slave. However, I have very particular criteria for someone who will work well with me. I've found it in people who identify as either so I try not to limit myself when searching or communicating with potentials. Instead, I make it very clear what I feel is and is not acceptable, my expectations, what I have to offer, my skill level, how I play and what I do. If it works, it does.

In the OP, is the problem with what the Dom asked you to do or just the fact he called you "slave"? If he had asked the same thing, phrased differently, would you have a problem with doing it?

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to MASTERRocker)

Post #: 4

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 4:38:20 PM

MASTERRocker

Posts: 277
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Kitchener-Waterloo, ON
Status: offline

Again; open communication, respect and trust labels are nothing... the heart is everything "A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit to His slave. A slave can only submit if she can master her Master's heart."

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 5

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 5:32:01 PM

Owned1

Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline

Say it and they become, or is it say it and I believe it. In all seriousness if one told me what I was and I had clearly identified as something else then this would be one of the red flags to watch out for.

Now if it was in discussion suggesting that perhaps you thought yourself to be submissive but I see slave tendancies, that is an entirely different scenario. Your example of "I am the Master do as I say and be quiet slave" is entirely different especially early on in any dynamic.

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

(in reply to MASTERRocker)

Post #: 6

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 5:48:31 PM

HCWT1

Posts: 161
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline

There are many domly types that confuse arrogance with dominance....................

(in reply to Owned1)

Post #: 7

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:05:04 PM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

Mostly because a lot of "Doms" are mostly wannabes, or that what they are really seeking is a slave and they feel they and talk you into it......

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to patina)

Post #: 8

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:05:24 PM

innatedesire

Posts: 111
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

what a wonderful quote!! Thank you for sharing that

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERRocker

Again; open communication, respect and trust labels are nothing... the heart is everything "A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit to His slave. A slave can only submit if she can master her Master's heart."

(in reply to MASTERRocker)

Post #: 9

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:17:08 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Oh those pesky details...

quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

The problem is how?

(in reply to patina)

Post #: 10

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:20:43 PM

Invictus754

Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

"A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit to His slave. A slave can only submit if she can master her Master's heart."

I hate to tell you this, but this quote had to be written by someone who was misdirected.

My heart only does MY bidding - not following some slave wannabe attempts to top from the bottom. A Master should have compassion and empathy, but rule with a firm hand and let no wrong be unpunished, no silliness go uncorrected - that just opens the floodgates for nonsense like this.

IMHO,
Invictus

_____________________________

You never know your limits, until you push them
If slavery is a gift, the Africans were pretty fucking generous in the 1700 and 1800s, weren't they?

(in reply to innatedesire)

Post #: 11

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:24:18 PM

MASTERRocker

Posts: 277
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Kitchener-Waterloo, ON
Status: offline

No disrespect Invictus754 but I expect the same. You use and judge as you see fit; but MY ways are how I am; respectful, honest and having BOTH interests at heart and in mind - not just Mine.
MASTER Rocker

(in reply to Invictus754)

Post #: 12

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:30:49 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Yeah, I didn't like that quote either, but it's one of those feel-good crypto-Christian sentiments that will always grab people in the comfort of Northern-Hemisphere suburbia. The strong man who knows how to humble himself, loves his one and only one woman despite his unruly heart--all that mainstream red-meat red-state shit. I didn't bother commenting on it, but I'm glad you did.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

quote:

"A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit to His slave. A slave can only submit if she can master her Master's heart."

I hate to tell you this, but this quote had to be written by someone who was misdirected.

My heart only does MY bidding - not following some slave wannabe attempts to top from the bottom. A Master should have compassion and empathy, but rule with a firm hand and let no wrong be unpunished, no silliness go uncorrected - that just opens the floodgates for nonsense like this.

(in reply to Invictus754)

Post #: 13

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:37:36 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

It would be a Master of little dreams that did not increase himself over time, this is generally not condusive to ..........fuck it...this shit has been argued to death.

Let me say this:

There is oft times in life that there is a validity to depreciating any type of goods over the long haul, for benefit as yet unrealized.

There is no use in depleting goods or services unless you are poly...there needs to be a pipeline effect; see?

LMCAO,
Ron (but a grain of truth, I think)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to MASTERRocker)

Post #: 14

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:50:59 PM

OhReallyNow

Posts: 249
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

My question is Why does a Dom change the status of a person when he/she clearly states what they desire to be?

If a sub comes to you to be a sub why does a Dom start addressing that sub as a slave a few days later and when that sub say's wait I agreeded to be a sub, you are told "I am the master do as I say be quiet slave". If you refuse He says you do not want to be of the lifestyle you are just playing at it.

wishful thinking perhaps?

Only you can decide who and what you are; it matters not what another wants to call you.
this girl is a slave yet she has been called submissive by some; it does not change what is in my heart though
on that same note, there was a time when this slave was nothing more than a submissive and yet, was called slave by some
again, it matters not what one is called; only what you feel inside.

_____________________________

~ When anger rises, think of the consequences
CONFUCIUS ~

(in reply to patina)

Post #: 15

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 6:58:41 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

Why necessarily quibble about what you are called? If you stated you specifically wanted to be a sub but you were refered to as slut, would that be a problem?
Some Masters do ot see the meaning of a title making all that much difference. Personally, I dont. My boy has caled himself a save, a sub, a pet and several other terms. All I care is that he serves me to the best of his abilities and as I want him to. What it is called is immaterial.
If the reference is realy that troublesome, and the Master in questions doubts your conviction becasue ou dislike a name... you are likely not much of a match anyway and should cut your losses and move on. When something as minor as what one party decides to call the other can cause that much trouble the rest of the potential relationship is already in a rough spot.

My opinion,
DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to OhReallyNow)

Post #: 16

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 8:47:14 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Usually because they want to sound cooler and think it will make the other person feel cooler about themselves and like they have a cooler connection with eachother.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to patina)

Post #: 17

RE: sub/slave - 9/25/2006 11:29:32 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

Hmm godda love menipulation!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 18

RE: sub/slave - 9/26/2006 1:19:58 PM

Voltare

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

Erm, this Sub vs Slave thing crops up more than any other topic, I think.

So there are tons of people who don't really understand the difference between a submissive or a slave. Hell, most seasoned veterans can barely distinguish between the two. Put ten kinked folk in a room and ask them to define the terms, and you'll still get ten different answers. Judging someone because they use one term, and not the other in an email sounds like hanging on semantics here.

On the other hand, I try to take care to call people what they tell me they are, unless I decide otherwise. It's a measure of respect to call someone by their name, or call them 'submissive' if they state they are clearly not a slave. If I think they are obviously a slave, I still usually keep it to myself unless I'm asked.

The key here, though, is if someone is obnoxious, I don't waste a lot of time talking or emailing to them. If you don't like how someone calls you, either try to correct them, or stop interacting with them.

On a side note, the quote about a Master's heart submitting to a slave is poetic and all, but it just doesn't work for me. Love is love. Ds is Ds. They mix well, like chocolate and peanut butter, but I don't confuse the two. Not keeping my role as the Dominant in my relationship would be the quick way to becoming the 'ex' in my relationship.

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 19

RE: sub/slave - 9/26/2006 1:29:40 PM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

On a side note, the quote about a Master's heart submitting to a slave is poetic and all, but it just doesn't work for me. Love is love. Ds is Ds. They mix well, like chocolate and peanut butter, but I don't confuse the two. Not keeping my role as the Dominant in my relationship would be the quick way to becoming the 'ex' in my relationship.

Well said.

(in reply to Voltare)

Post #: 20

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