KnightofMists
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ORIGINAL: twicehappy
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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
but here is where you contridict yourself. First you say none is better than the other... But then you equate M/s requiring Greater commitment and responsibility.
No i did not contradict myself; i stated "I do not think M/s as a higher form of D/s though i do think it requires greater commitment and responsibility of all parties involved".
Let me try putting it this way; i sign up to race for a sponsor in exchange for them providing support for my racing. When i fill out the paperwork i can choose to race 100% for them on their terms, which is a huge commitment that requires training seven days a week, attending every event, and promoting their product.
Or i can sign up choosing to race on my own terms attending the events i chose, training when i wish and promoting their product when it is convenient for me.
Choosing to ride on a sponsor's terms does not make me a better rider, it does not make me any faster, it only means i have chosen to commit myself to them on their terms, to make racing for them the focus of my entire being on their terms.
Choosing to ride on my own terms does not make me less of a rider, it does not make me slower, it only means i have chosen to commit myself to race for them on my terms.
It is not the a question of if the person is a better rider or not? It's a question of equating that one has a greater commitment. One may have a different commitment... but there is not objective value that can be placed on it to state that this commitment is greater.
It's a great ego boast to say that a slave has a greater commitment than the submissive because the slave is required and expected to obey all commands... where the submissive has only to abide to the commands that have been negotiated. The problem with this False and greater than thou thinking is it forgets one very important fact. The only commitment that matters is the commitment to one self to be One self. A slave that makes a commitment to a Master is in fact making a commitment to oneself to be true to oneself no more or less than the submissive that makes a commitment to their Dominant. No one person's individual commitment to oneself makes me a better person than another (or your analogy - a better rider).. but living up to the commitment to be true to my inner nature does make me the best me I can be. Everyone has different commitments.. no one commitment can be taken in isolation in comparison to another. Just because one person has X commitment and Y doesn't have this particular commitment doesn't make X have a greater commitment it is only different commitments within the confines of their specific relationship.
So yes you contridict yourself... "Greater" is a value based statement. It implies that one is greater than another which also states that one is Less than another. This is very specifically stating that becuase I have greater commitments I am better than you. When it all it is... I have different commitments than you and that makes me different than you. To use your analogy.... first you are comparing yourself in two different situations.. which in of itself doesn't relate to the fact of comparing yourself to another person's commitments. But lets look at the Bike rider that has all sorts of commitments to a sponsor and the Bike rider that doesn't have such commitments to a sponsor. You are right that it doesn't make one rider better than the other and here is why... simply... that is not all the commitments that exist are being stated. The sponored rider has alot of commitments with the sponsor and because of that will not likely have much more commitments beyond the sponsor. However, the Bike rider that has no sponsor will very likely have alot of other commitments... so stating that one relationship has more commitments is not taking all commitments that maybe in place. Of course it is great for ones ego to only look at the part of the picture... particularly when that part makes one appear to have greater.
another aspect to consider. The slave has more or greater commitments to a Master than a submissive. For one simple fact... um the submissive doesn't have a Master they have a Dom. One could equal state that a submissive has more or greater commitments to a Dom than the slave. For one simple fact... um the slave doesn't have a Dom they have a Master. Therefore statements like these are rather stupid and false ego boosting statements. It is much more accurate to state that a slave will have different commitments than the submissive.
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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
But then you equate M/s requiring Greater commitment and responsibility. This automatically infers that D/s has less commitment and responsibility
One requires greater commitment and responsibility than the other, in one i am committing on their terms, they say go race here, I go race there. If i commit to racing on my own terms they say go race here i can say no, i do not want to, but i can race there the next day.
So yes, my level of commitment is different only in that i make the choice when and where to ride or they make the choice when and where i ride. In either scenario during the race i am still going to be riding to my utmost ability in order to keep the sponsor happy(and of course to win).
It is only greater commitment and responsibility if one looks at it with narrowmindness. The fact is... it's different commitments because one has a sponsor and one chooses not to. One can't forget there is alot of other commitments beyond the simple confines of the sponsor.
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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
How can one put an objective value to what is more or greater commitment?
You yourself said it best;
A submissive does it for the Master's pleasure; a slave does it at the Master's pleasure.
This does not but a higher value on one or the other but one does require more commitment than the other.
In either choice one would be doing one's best but with one choice i am committing to do it on their terms, i have little or no choice about when, how or where i do as they say, in the other i am committing on my terms retaining my choices.
chuckles... your answer doesn't answer the question.
Secondly.. one is not more commitment than another.. it is just different commitments. You once again narrow you view on commitments.. you only look at what commitments exist for slave and not for the submissive and equate that as more... too bad you don't realize that the submissive will have commitments that the slave doesn't. It's not a question of more... it's a question of differnt.
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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
you in effect imply that one is better than the other…… then implies D/s relationships will have a more shallow spirtual and emotional connection.
If you take that as an implication that I said one is better than the other that is what you are taking it as, not what I stated.
We all do chose, but I in no way stated nor implied any one choice is better than they other, only different and requiring different things.
Your right you never stated it in anyway... but the implications are obvious.
Of course.. I could be wrong ... but I think not.
< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 9/30/2006 8:46:02 AM >
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Knight of Mists
An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.
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.. yes this was wrong of me...I apologize
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