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Dos and Don´ts - 4/24/2004 2:25:11 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		After five years, I've had some good and some terrible experiences with meeting people online, both in the D/s and vanilla settings. I know lots of tips have been written before, but I think I have a few thoughts to add to them. Most of these are geared towards long distance relationships from online, i.e. more then a few hours drive. Before I do, this is the most important bit of advice I can give: Meeting on the internet should NOT replace meeting in real time. If you approach the internet the way you would a singles bar, you should be safe. That means never get too involved with someone online - there's plenty of time to fall in love in real life to waste these strong emotions online.

1) Don't get involved in long distance relationships.
2) Don't get involved in long distance relationships.

3) Since I know you are going to probably ignore rules one and two anyway, here's the rest. IF you are going to get involved in long distance relationships where the ultimate goal is to be with the person in real time, ensure that very early on in the relationship you see them on a webcam. NO ifs, ands, or buts. If they cant afford a web cam, they cant afford to be online. Webcams are inexpensive, and cost less then one months internet access for most people. It has been my experience, that someone who says they cannot afford a webcam, is really saying they dont want to admit they have been less then truthful about their appearence. Almost every other reason stems from some sort of lack of sincerity. If you are looking to be with someone in real time, a web cam, even for just one day, is a must! This goes both ways, of course - if you are seeking a real time involvement, pay the 20 dollars and get on with it. My first meeting with a 'sub' was a flight to California from Detroit, only to find that the photos she had sent were fake.

4) Don't lie, and do not tolerate liars. This should be a no brainer, but in my experience only about 20% of the people you meet are even remotely like what they say they are. It is VERY easy to present yourself as someone you are not online. I had an online relationship with a woman for over a year, who continued to put off meeting real time, until I found out that she had simply lied about her age. That one lie, led to a series of other lies to keep from admitting she didn't want to meet me, because I would know that she was really 44, instead of 31.

5) Don't suspend your real time activities to be online!!! The time you spend online should be recreational and fun - but anything in excess is too much. If you are putting your real life friends off every weekend to be with your cyber-beau, you are missing out on life, and so is s/he!

6) Within the first week, talk on the phone. My own advice is in the first two days. If they do not feel safe giving their phone number out, nothing you can possibly do online will convince them that they will be safe. Period.

7) Do 'google' that phone number, and the persons name. That is, go to a search engine and punch in that information. Even if the number is unlisted, you may be able to learn a bit about the person. Be prepared to talk about whatever you find! While this may sound like you are being suspicious, in reality it reduces the risks on both sides. Incidentally, this is how I learned that the 44 year old woman lied about her age - her registration with a high school graduation class came up. Had I the good sense to do this a year and a half ago, I might not be sitting here typing these rules. (grin)

8) Do not take any relationship online too seriously. Love, real love, doesnt happen online. It happens face to face, person to person. Let the internet give you a chance to meet at a coffee house or a resturant, but feelings of 'love' online are 95% fantasy.

9) NEVER send money or expensive gifts online. NEVER take money or expensive gifts online. At the least, it sets a bad tone for the relationship. At the worst, it's a scam.

10) If the goal is to live together, the submissive should be prepared to move. There are a few reasons for this, the major one being that money talks louder then any whip, flogger, or crop. If the Dominant cannot afford to provide for the submissive, there will always be resentment. If the submissive cannot leave the city/state/country/etc due to work or children, and the Dominant wishes to relocate - do so to a new location, at the Dominants expense. The Dominant should NEVER pay for the submissives relocation, nor should the submissive pay for the Dominants! Until the couple has been together for several months, finances should remain completely seperate. Nothing can undermine a D/s relationship faster then money trouble!

11) Chat rooms are TERRIBLE. If you are looking to just chat idly, go for it - but do NOT search for 'love' there. For every person I actually managed to meet real time, in chat, I've met five from personals sites like this one. If you insist on using the internet to meet people, stick to the personals sites, they really do come through with first meetings. Additionally, when you use a personals site, the expectations of love, romance, etc, are not nearly as fixed as when you have spent six months in a chat room with a person.

12) Don't be afraid to talk about your kinks, but do be cautious if the only conversations you have are BDSM related. I liken BDSM sites with any other type of interest - if you are at a Rolling Stones concert and you meet someone who likes the same band, it makes little sense to play classical music for the next month while dating, just to be sure you only like the person for their musical tastes. By the same token, if the person can't manage a conversation about anything except Mick Jaggers hairstyle, the bands tour dates, and the new album coming out, then odds are the relationship will probably fizzle in the long run.

13) DO NOT engage in BDSM or D/s play on the first date (or first meeting.) Real intimacy comes after nearly a month together - this is when BDSM or D/s will become meaningful (unless your goal is casual play.)

14) Don't be afraid to talk about your family or work obligations and committments - these will impact your life together, and are important!

15) Keep dating, real time. Just because you have kinks, or tastes in BDSM doesn't mean that you cannot share them with people you meet in your real life. Love doesn't come in the form of a crop wielding, black leather hunk (usually) nor in a fishnet stocking beauty in high heels. It comes where it comes, how it comes - and if you can find someone who makes you happy in other ways, introducing them to BDSM, slowly, shouldn't shock them too much if you take it slow.

16) Enjoy yourself. The computer has an off switch, don't be afraid of it!

Stephan

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 4/25/2004 2:14:35 AM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

Ifyou are going to get involved in long distance relationships where the ultimate goal is to be with the person in real time, ensure that very early on in the relationship you see them on a webcam.




I do not own, nor do I ever anticipate owning a webcam. It has nothing to do with expense. I simply don't want one, and have no interest in seeing anyone on one. If that makes people think I'm not who I am, then that's their problem, and their loss, I think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
Within the first week, talk on the phone. My own advice is in the first two days.



I hate the telephone. It's for emergencies, or things that can't wait for email. It's an intrusion into my life. Yeah, there are times when I'll use it, but in gereral I hate the damned thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
7) Do 'google' that phone number, and the persons name. That is, go to a search engine and punch in that information. Even if the number is unlisted, you may be able to learn a bit about the person.



Wow, that just feels REALLY invasive to me. If someone I was contemplating a relationship did that to me without my knowledge, and I found out later, that would likely be the end of any potential relationship right there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
10) The Dominant should NEVER pay for the submissives relocation, nor should the submissive pay for the Dominants!



If someone is asking me to relocate, s/he damned well better be prepared to pay at least a part of the moving expenses. It's totally unreasonable to expect someone to uproot his/her entire life, and foot the entire bill as well, with the other partner contributing nothing to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
DO NOT engage in BDSM or D/s play on the first date (or first meeting.) Real intimacy comes after nearly a month together - this is when BDSM or D/s will become meaningful (unless your goal is casual play.)



Ya know, I hear this truism all the time, and while I agree it has some degree of merit, I don't think it needs to be a hard and fast rule. I think there are plenty of times when it's perfectly alright to play on a first meeting - just arrange for that meeting to be at a public club/party/event, so that it's an option.

Personally, I don't need to have a month long relationship in order to have a good scene. I'm not sure where that arbitrary number comes from, but I think every relationship is unique and you can't slap numbers on them and expect them to apply across the board.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
16) Enjoy yourself. The computer has an off switch, don't be afraid of it!



Indeed. That's what I did tonite. :)

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 4/25/2004 10:15:32 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		Dear Sherri,

Obviously, the suggestions I posted were from my own point of view. I would not expect any or all of the information to be appropriate for every person in every situation. If I recall correctly, and I may be mistaken, your own reasons for being on this site are not in 'pursuit' of a long term relationship, but rather to find casual play partners? As this is the case, what would the likely hood of you involving yourself in long distance relationships be?

The overall concept of what I was writing, was that for the internet to facilitate a long distance relationship, it should be viewed as a tool for enabling 'real' interaction, rather then textually based roleplay or fantasy interaction. The more real you make the interaction and the quicker you meet, the more likely your relationship will be based on the people you actually are, and not the fantasy or ideal of the chat name that you use.

As for relocation expenses - the reasoning for keeping things seperate is simply that if you move to 'be' with someone, and the move goes poorly, not only have you given up your former existance but you are now in an unfamiliar place, and dependent on another person for your current existance. If you can't afford to move, then you shouldn't. If you are moving, because you can't afford to stay where you are - a better job, not a better relationship should be the goal.

As for privacy, this war was waged on another thread, and I won't go into much detail here, other then it is a very short term answer, to long term questions. Had I had the foresight to google people I was speaking to in the first month, I would not have spent the many many months I did 'involved' with a few people. I would rather a woman who is willing to stand up under scrutiny online, because I darned well expect her to scrutinize me as well.

Just my thoughts, of course.

Stephan

< Message edited by Voltare -- 4/25/2004 11:04:34 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 4/25/2004 10:41:44 AM   
feline


Posts: 1101
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline 		i think you made some very good and valueable points. And although they may not fit *everyone*, i think that most will agree that they are worth considering.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Variety is the soul of pleasure.
~Aphra Behn~

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 4/25/2004 10:58:46 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		i have to second the webcam thing. i just plain hate them. i will never own one. this has caused -many- people to tell me that i'm a faker, a loser and generally a bad person.

granted, i'm not looking for a relationship, but this still irritates me.

i have a digital camera. it's a nice digital camera that makes high quality pictures. i chose to invest in one rather than get a weird webcam. so if people ask for pictures, i can send them, and will, including ones designed to proove identity.

i see having a digital camera as an alternative to having a webcam. and i don't understand why people are biased agaisnt those who chose one over the other.

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 4/25/2004 11:03:27 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		My reasoning on the webcam is simply that I have had people send fake photos, taken with a digital camera. Fifty or so photos seemed enough to prove to me that she was, in fact, who I thought she was. When the lovely blonde woman in the photos turned out to be a large brunette woman at the airport (on my first meeting) I learned my lesson.

The webcam thing is geared more for long distance. If the person lives within a couple hours drive, it makes no sense to ask to see a cam - Id rather see the person, in person, for coffee. I certainly would not spend three months of 'foreplay' online with someone who lives three hours away.

Stephan

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 4/25/2004 11:18:51 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		Stephan, I am going to applaud this post, even though I am going to disagree with some of your points on a personal level. And some people are going to, of course. However, as a basic set of rules to go by, these are good! I'll definitly say that.

I have a great system, she is just going through menopause or something. *sigh* I have windows me, and apparently that is not conducive to media. So music, video, cam, etc, causes her to lock up, shut down, and I get the dreaded blue screen and can't even control/alt/delete. It's horrid! I crashed, really really crashed, twice in two weeks. Therefore I do not have my cam, printer, or scanner installed at this point. So I don't cam. I'm real, but I don't cam. On the other hand it could be that I don't want them to see my green hair and warts....hmmmm

#4 Ha Ha I'm 52 and I'll be 52 until I'm 53 lol

#6&7 That phone! I love talking on the phone! It's actually easier for me to talk to someone on the phone than it is for me to look at the monitor (that's another story, lol), so I do phone! However, someone mentioned on another thread to BEWARE if the area code doesn't match the city of residence. Oh fie! This is the age of cable and saving money! I have Vonage! $37/month with unlimited local calling anywhere in the United States and Canada. The only catch is, they don't have area codes in my local area, so I have an area code of 615 (Nashville) and I live in Greeneville. Am I dishonest? No! I have Vonage! lol


As for who should pay for relocation, that is really between the parties involved. It depends on who is able, willing, mutual agreement, etc. That falls under the heading of communication within the relationship. If the relationship has evolved to the point where they are talking seriously about one relocating, then they are at a point where they can realistically work out the details of how to manage that financially to their mutual satisfaction.

Write on, Stephan!






_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 4/25/2004 11:47:13 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

13) DO NOT engage in BDSM or D/s play on the first date (or first meeting.) Real intimacy comes after nearly a month together - this is when BDSM or D/s will become meaningful (unless your goal is casual play.)


M. Stephan-

You know, that's a good, sensible rule, and any SSC, experianced dominant should consider it a matter of course.

oops.

Some of the BEST scenes I have ever worked (two of which lead to Relationships that lasted over a year) were ones where the 'aftercare' included "uhhhh- what is your name, anyway?".

Which DOESN'T mean it's a good idea to Spontanously start working with a complete stranger.

I would, however, leaven such advice (along with the usual read this, study that, plan everything out type of advice) with a sugestion that if the stars seem right- go for it!

Some of the WORST scenes I have had were fully SSC approved, negioated arrangements. Oddly (and I fully reliase that I have been lucky) the off the cuff, swept up in the moment scenes have all been, at the least, excellent.

Stay Warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/6/2004 3:38:54 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I still agree with the entire contents of Stephans list. If I were seeking I would follow them all.

The only one I may not is the webcam thing. I don't own one. I did but it outdated itself. Never considered purchasing another. I own a digicam. Then again perhaps if I were seeking I may purchase one.

I feel this list should be a tool for newbies within the scene to stay safe. Of course people would alter them to fit themselves, however its a good beginning.

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/6/2004 5:23:45 PM   
BlackGoddess


Posts: 68
Joined: 2/1/2004
Status: offline 		I wholeheartedly agree with the webcam thing. I would have never agree to let my German pet stay with me for the summer if I had not "trained" him online.

_____________________________

Rule #1 - Goddess is Always Right. Rule #2 - When Goddess is Wrong, refer to Rule #1.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/6/2004 8:12:54 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I hate the telephone. It's for emergencies, or things that can't wait for email. It's an intrusion into my life. Yeah, there are times when I'll use it, but in gereral I hate the damned thing.


I dont hate it. But I view it as something trying to vie for my attention, and generally I tend to be very focussed on what I am doing and unwilling to be interrupted.

So I let the stupid thing ring, and let it go to voice mail.

I keep my cell on vibrate, if it vibrates, I will look and see who it is, but unless it is certain people (like my children) I dont answer it.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to BlackGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/6/2004 9:33:30 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
Dos and Don'ts
hmmmmmmm
Do remember
this is a Alternate
Lifestyle.
Don't forget this
is a Alternate way
to Live.
Do remember
this is for Adults
who are suppose
to have common
sence.
Dont forget this
is practiced by
Adults whom have
no common sence.
Do remember
kinkie, freakie, scarry,
exhilerating are Our
common words.
Dont forget your
safewords
Do remember We
are All societys throwouts
Dont forget the One
you think is weird
thinks your weird too.
Do remember your
not alone here
Dont forget your
not alone here.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/8/2004 12:39:02 AM   
thewaitress


Posts: 4
Joined: 6/21/2004
Status: offline 		i dont do web cam as i often find its a one way request and some old guy on the other end is getting off.
I have met a few jerks that have blatantly lied to me and the result of that is we dont play. on the other hand i have met a lot of guys who are what they say they are. I always ask for a recent picture and i only do local meets. I never string out an on-line relationship for anything more than a week. If they make excuses then the chances are they are time waisters and get booted.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/8/2004 8:23:33 AM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		No one has directly mentioned it, but as a 53 Y/O female Domme, safety is a major issue for me. Will I talk on the phone? Yes, but it will be my cell phone, so google away, you won't get much information. Which is why I use a cell phone. For a first meet I use a safe call, OR have someone at the public meet sitting at a near by table. No matter how sincerely someone sounds in type or on the phone, I do not think I can whip my weight in wildcats. A lost of a few months time typing or talking on the phone is perferable to ending up beat up, robbed or dead.
I have no idea why people lie about themselves online, as to your experience Stephan with the 33 y/o turning out to be 44. Thats better than she turning out to be a he who was setting you up to be robbed or worse. If you talk extensively about your work, family, activities you are setting yourself up for someone knowing when you are home and when you are away, easy pickings. So I will continue to go slowly. The males that have entered my life, been around my vanilla family/friends, have all been as adverted, but there is always the possibility that they will not. So no google search will lead them to my family. A public vanilla meet will always be arranged without access to cam or my landline number.
Basically I agree with most of what you say. Yes, you need to talk, meet as soon as possible, and talk about much more than D/s. But not even in the vanilla world would I give a virtual stranger access to my family, or home information. Be safe, Tess

_____________________________


~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/8/2004 11:49:11 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

13) DO NOT engage in BDSM or D/s play on the first date (or first meeting.) Real intimacy comes after nearly a month together - this is when BDSM or D/s will become meaningful (unless your goal is casual play.)

M. Stephan-

You know, that's a good, sensible rule, and any SSC, experianced dominant should consider it a matter of course.

oops.

Some of the BEST scenes I have ever worked (two of which lead to Relationships that lasted over a year) were ones where the 'aftercare' included "uhhhh- what is your name, anyway?".

Which DOESN'T mean it's a good idea to Spontanously start working with a complete stranger.

I would, however, leaven such advice (along with the usual read this, study that, plan everything out type of advice) with a sugestion that if the stars seem right- go for it!

Some of the WORST scenes I have had were fully SSC approved, negioated arrangements. Oddly (and I fully reliase that I have been lucky) the off the cuff, swept up in the moment scenes have all been, at the least, excellent.

Stay Warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

Dance like you've never been hurt and
Love like no one's watching.

(in reply to Voltare)


Sir-

And a further note

'oops I did it again..'

And Bailey, after about five hours F2F time, gave me a scene of a lifetime- an observer remarked that 'it was lovely- I can tell you have been 'playing' together a long time'. It was quite fun to hear Bailey reply 'no, we just met tonight.'

There have been [pausing to think and count]... about six people in my life that I have been as intimate with, who I could speak my thoughts without filtering them, who I could ask something of and not question the answer.

Some came with time. some came with the ease and grace and immedicy of falling into warm water...

I HATE to wax all fuzzy and spiritual, but the really good ones, you find as much in yourself as out there where they are standing.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/9/2004 3:58:38 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sundew,
I believe there is some plan to make cell numbers public info here soon. Some sort of debate about them is going on. Been a bit pre-occupied as of late.

Is that going to change the way you do things? Will you just not chat on the phone anymore?

I know myself, if speaking to someone for the first time. I've given my cell number. I think we all do it. We are all going to have to re-consider here soon though.

(in reply to Sundew02)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/11/2004 8:41:58 PM   
baileythorne


Posts: 264
Joined: 6/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

And Bailey, after about five hours F2F time, gave me a scene of a lifetime- an observer remarked that 'it was lovely- I can tell you have been 'playing' together a long time'. It was quite fun to hear Bailey reply 'no, we just met tonight.'



Damn. I'm blushing. And yes, I'm an imp.

After playing for many years and having a wide variety of experiences, I'm pretty comfortable jumping in with both feet. I know how to stop or withdraw if that is necessary. And that gives me the freedom of begining with vagueness, the unknown and imagination.

--bailey

_____________________________

Dance like no one's watching and
Love like you've never been hurt.

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/11/2004 9:33:21 PM   
wizcitrix


Posts: 20
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Well first of all I must say I do own a digital camera altho I don't own a webcam I have easy access to one. All that aside, I believe you are 100% incorrect in your rules. I don't have, nor ever will have, an image of myself, be in a digital picture or a realtime webcam, floating across the net. Its not because I lie about my looks, or about who I am. In fact I met my lover of 3+ years this way and we now share 2 beautiful children together. The reason I don't offer up images of myself is that I believe they are irrelavent.

Not long ago I was asked by someone online "where were you born?". My simple reply was "right here on earth". By offering up pictures or webcam shots you allow a person to make a biased opinion if you based upon looks. Its bad enough people still do it with voice over the phone "Oh he must be cute he sounded sexy". The fact is you have to watch out for the little inconspicuous things about your internet lover.

The people that seem to be to good to be true, usually are. This is a reality both online and off. If someone seems like the perfect lover, there is a good chance there is something very wrong, people cannot be perfect online or off. The difference is online they have more time to think up the response.

_____________________________

Albany Alternative
Albany Alternative Sex Blog

(in reply to baileythorne)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/12/2004 9:35:54 PM   
plenty2handle


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline 		these words of advice are very very good.. I have met one or two"Dom's: the first one lived only aobut 40 minutes away biut nevr had time to date... the second one was 4 hours and was not Dom... just wanted to f... so all in all very good words

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Dos and Don´ts - 7/12/2004 10:02:46 PM   
Mondschein


Posts: 52
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline 		For me, the number one rule is meet real time.
If I'm really interested on someone I'll make sure they are close to my area so we can share time together.
I hate long distance!!!
Also, first meeting should always be in a public place whwre friends could easily "rescue" you in case of emergency.
Always tell someone where you are and with whom.

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 20
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