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RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 2:23:43 PM

alwayshis1

Posts: 27
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline

my advise,,, dont ask a chat forum and have the kids seen by a doctor,, bottom line,, no one else can you exactly what is going on. as heather said that you have in your mouth, is not a std, even if you can get the same lesions in other areas. we have recently dealth with this in my house as well and an unmentionable losing his mind thinking he had an std, with no sexual activity, all it was was cold sores, and jock itch,, no std,,, but only a dr can tell you what you have, not a chat forum

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 21

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 2:31:22 PM

maybemaybenot

Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Anyway, all I know is that if I had two preschool-age kids and BOTH of them came down with herpes outbreaks on the genitals, I'd want to get to the bottom of what happened.

same here, LAM. I would not take it casually or explain it away with * possible* modes of transmission.. Meaning maybe a gym mat, maybe touched there genitals after sucking the thumb.
The HSV virus dies very quickly when off/out of the body. Yes, it can live in saliva on a gym mat, however it degrades and weakens very quickly, even on a moist surface and has an extremely low risk of transmission in that manner.
I am a little surprised at the casual response the OP has gotten to this..
Oh, well... maybe I am an alarmist, but my little ones would be at the pediatrician and being examined.
I don't have the energy to do a search, but I suspect that the incidence of genital herpes, in that age group, WITHOUT sexual contact is less than 5%. Just a educated guess, but I don't think I am too far off.
mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 22

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 2:46:48 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

I'm pretty much with LaM here. Identifying the viral strain may be important as while HSV-1 may cause genital lesions, HSV-2 almost always causes genital lesions and is almost always sexually transmitted. So two children with HSV-2 infection would warrant an investigation (and indeed, in Illinois, I think a health care provider would be required to report the infection to child welfare authorities). Obviously the children need to be taken to a doctor immediately, and the source of infection identified quickly.

FWIW, herpes infection of high school age wrestlers is common enough that it has its own name (from a pediatric medical text):

"Herpes gladiatorum refers to a herpes skin infection that occurs in adolescent wrestlers. It usually occurs on the head, most commonly the jaw area, and can easily be spread during tight wrestling holds. A once a day dosage of Valacyclovir (Valtrex) may prevent recurrences."

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 23

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 2:49:23 PM

larsebr

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline

Wow, I had no idea that herpes were that widespread. I feel so sorry for the people that have herpes. If I was the parents of the two children, I would have an investigation done. Children that young should not get herpes at such an early age. Something sounds odd about both getting the virus, and in both of the areas where they got it. It seems that modern medicine would be able to cure this sort of thing, as much money is being spent on research. Rule, you need to go to another doctor man. If that doctor dose not see, or care to see what is wrong, go to another one until one dose see. Thats just wrong for a doctor not to listen to its paitens, and not to believe in what they say is true. How the hell do they know, did they just walk a mile in you shoe, I dont think so. Stand up to them, if you question them over and over again; they will hopefully understand what is wrong. You shold not have to go through that type of torture because some " all knowing doctor" thinks that noting is wrong, have her run test, If she will not, go to another doctor for their oppnion. Please get some help, no one should suffer like that.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 24

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 3:03:57 PM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Yup, I'm with the ones who say 1) See a doctor... then I'd 2) Call the Health Department... let them look into this. While I understand stuff like ring-worms are often rampent in schools, I'd be VERY converned about the stuff you're talking about...

(in reply to larsebr)

Post #: 25

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 3:05:25 PM

subartist4dom

Posts: 40
Status: offline

I agree...only a doctor can tell you for sure what the children have. If it was my daughter I would be at the doctor asking 101 questions until I was satisfied that everything has been thought of. I'd want every little detail and then after that I'd be asking the preschool for everyone there to be screened. Not to be anal, but as a precaution for other children there too. Once I have my answers then the only thing to do is keep up on what my child has so I can educate her about it. Also its also a good idea to get a second opinion. If you're unsure where to have the children tested the women's clinic at your local hospital is a good place to start.

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 26

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 3:11:05 PM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

My friend's kids wouldn't touch each other.

What...kids don't play 'Doctor' anymore? Hell yes they touch each other; at that age they play like puppies! Sheeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Why would you say two children wouldn't touch each other?

BTW... IF they've had adults 'touching them'...they are even MORE likely to touch others. I'd be getting them to the doctor and call the health department and (depending on what THEY say...) child welfare folks.

but...that's just me (and I played 'Doctor'...)
beverly

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 27

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 3:23:38 PM

maybemaybenot

Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

FWIW, herpes infection of high school age wrestlers is common enough that it has its own name (from a pediatric medical text):

"Herpes gladiatorum refers to a herpes skin infection that occurs in adolescent wrestlers. It usually occurs on the head, most commonly the jaw area, and can easily be spread during tight wrestling holds. A once a day dosage of Valacyclovir (Valtrex) may prevent recurrences."

E.

Yup, that's what I am aware of too.

Herpes is spread by skin to skin contact with * some * exceptions.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 28

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 5:45:49 PM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

Of course, I absolutely agree about investigating the pre-schoolers! I wasn't making light of that situation in any way or shape!

Although....say the babysitter got Type II on her mouth because she had oral sex with her boyfriend who had an active case going on on his penis. Say she showed up to babysit with a soda that she's been sipping via the Type II blisters that are on her mouth. Say she gets busy chatting on the phone and little Johnny picks up the soda that babysitter just took a drink out of and takes a healthy swig himself, his little mouth coming into full contact with the virus-infected saliva left behind on the bottle or straw from the babysitter. He now has Type II on his mouth. Say down the road, he scratches a lesion on his lips because they tingle and itch, or just sucks his fingers, then scratches his own penis, because believe me, little boys touch their penises quite frequently. It would be very easy for him to transmit the virus to another region of his own body.

My point is, though you would definitely want to know all you could about herpes in your own toddler, him or her being diagnosed with Type II in the genital area isn't conclusive of molestation or sexual abuse by any means. It really isn't conclusive of anything except what its name is.

::edited to add:: I just did some more research, and another article cited sharing lip balms as a common way to spread herpes. The virus CAN live in moist areas, like puddles of sweat or saliva, or wet towels. Direct skin-to-skin contact is NOT the only way it can be transmitted! Based on what I know from work (I'm a medical technologist in a hospital lab) and from studies, it's become so widespread that most adults have been exposed to it, and I believe we're going to see a lot more cases of it being made public in the near future.

< Message edited by windchymes -- 10/9/2006 6:08:28 PM >

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 29

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 7:57:56 PM

maybemaybenot

Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

windchymes:

I wasn't directing my comments to any one person in particular, but more of what I saw as a general tone.

The problem with Herpes is there is so much conflicting data out there. I am not disagreeing that the virus can be spread via non skin to skin contact, I am saying it is uncommon, the lesser mode of transmission. Figures vary from about 80-95%, depending on which study you look at.
Same with how long the HSV-1 virus survives off a human host. Data states from 0-20 minutes and most agree that the virus denegrates, even in a warm moist enviorment off the body and that the longer it is off the body, the weaker it becomes, making it a more difficult mode of transmission.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but trying to impress on the OP that firmly suggesting to her friend that a trip to the pediatrician is warrented. And that more likely than not, if the youngins have herpes on their genitals a few things need to be looked into and investigated. Agreed, the presence of the virus in the genital area is not conclusive of abuse, but it is highly suggestive and if I were a parent, I would want to make sure I was looking out for my youngins to the best of my ability. As I am sure you would also.

mbmbn

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 10/9/2006 7:59:42 PM >

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 30

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 7:59:21 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

The local health department where I live doesn't even test for herpes because they say most people have it, so you're not the only one I've heard that from. If most adults have been exposed to it, then why are there commercials on TV making such a big deal about it? People see that and think "Oh my gosh, I get occasional cold sores. Oh no, it can be spread even when I don't have symptons. I'll never even be able to kiss anyone without possibly infecting them." I've known alot of people that get occasional cold sores and I never thought it was a big deal until I saw the Valtrex commercials. So how can one prevent transmitting cold sores if they can't afford supressive therapy, mouth condoms?

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 31

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/9/2006 10:58:26 PM

subartist4dom

Posts: 40
Status: offline

The health department may not test for it, but hospitals do. I'm going to go a bit off subject with a little story. I had just gotten home from training when someone from the health department showed up at my door. I was told that another soldier had tested positive for TB and HIV the day before. Because there was no accurate data as to who was exposed and who was not, everyone that was in the barracks within a week's period had to be tested. A week later I went to the health department and I was negative. But let me point something out here. We are talking about very young children, not adults. So they need to go to the hospital and get tested. And yes the women's clinic will do it if a peditritian dosen't. And as for the whole transmission prevention? Well there are programs out there ran by the state that can aide in getting the treatment. Payment plans based on income and title 19 are two programs offered in most hospitals and states.

As a parent myself, get the kids checked...

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 32

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/10/2006 6:49:44 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

For these past three years I have been writing a book about the herpes virusses - slowly.

My biggest problem is my inability to communicate the severity of my problem to my physician. They consider herpes an innocent disease and refuse to accept that my immune systems is partly deactivated. (I would think that suffering daily from herpes would be a convincing argument, but it is not.) So no support and no medication at all from my physician. I do not even visit her any more, have not for years, except for influenza vaccinations.

The second biggest problem is the disabled part of my immune system. It should be reactivated, but how? I have suggestions, but as my physician refuses to accept that I have a problem, she will not even try to remedy the problem. Suppose it does work, though. Then what happens? Possibly my heart is completely infected. When my cellular immune defense is reactivated, the first thing that it will do is attack all diseased heart cells, but if it kills them all, I will have no heart left and I will die.

Then there is medication. I do not get any, so I have to make do. Yes, I know about lysine. I have a jar of it standing beside me, but I have not taken any in about a year now. I did not seem to benefit from it and if I recall correctly it gave me diarrea or something.

Herpes sucks, especially in my case. It is one of the reasons I am single, despite various young and very attractive women that for unfathomable reasons are interested in me.

Hello Rule,
WHY in the WORLD have you not changed Doctors??
I've even seen ads on TV where you can get the medicine that prevent break outs.
You should have the right to perscriptions for your issue. If your Doc won't give them to you, and treats you like you say I would have found a new person a long time ago and complained to the AMA.
suzanne

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 33

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/10/2006 6:53:26 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

So how do u tell your potential partners about it without them freaking out?

You tell them right up front and go from there freaking them out would not be half as bad as spreading it.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 34

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/10/2006 7:22:21 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

windchymes:

I wasn't directing my comments to any one person in particular, but more of what I saw as a general tone.

The problem with Herpes is there is so much conflicting data out there. I am not disagreeing that the virus can be spread via non skin to skin contact, I am saying it is uncommon, the lesser mode of transmission. Figures vary from about 80-95%, depending on which study you look at.
Same with how long the HSV-1 virus survives off a human host. Data states from 0-20 minutes and most agree that the virus denegrates, even in a warm moist enviorment off the body and that the longer it is off the body, the weaker it becomes, making it a more difficult mode of transmission.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but trying to impress on the OP that firmly suggesting to her friend that a trip to the pediatrician is warrented. And that more likely than not, if the youngins have herpes on their genitals a few things need to be looked into and investigated. Agreed, the presence of the virus in the genital area is not conclusive of abuse, but it is highly suggestive and if I were a parent, I would want to make sure I was looking out for my youngins to the best of my ability. As I am sure you would also.

mbmbn

Same here, mbmbn, I wasn't directing at you personally, and, in fact, was afraid my own comments were causing misunderstanding. I think the world needs more education about herpes and less hysteria (I don't mean YOU, lol) about the disease. People shouldn't have to be "freaking out" about the possibility of spreading or contracting herpes. Concerned and careful, yes, but I read and listen to what a lot of people say about it, and they go bananas and make assumptions and freak out! HIV transmission is basically a death sentence (though, with careful anti-viral therapy and monitoring, people are living much longer and productively than they used to) but people still take chances. Hepatitis B is very dangerous and can kill you, but I bet if you asked the average person if they'd rather contract it or herpes, I bet they'd choose hepatitis, simply because it just doesn't carry the icky-squicky stigma that herpes does. I've gone on first dates with guys who bring up the subject of herpes with this terrified air, saying things like, "You have to be careful because there's all this herpes out there! You don't have herpes, do you?" They never ask if I have HIV or Hepatitis, or syphillis, or gonorrhea, which, untreated, do far more damage to your health than herpes does.

And yes, genital herpes in a child could be indicative of sexual abuse, and must be investigated. But, the parents cannot become hysterical and start throwing neighbors and relatives in jail convinced that someone MUST have abused Johnny, and go on a big witch hunt, determined to put SOMEONE away to get revenge. It's an awful idea, but they must be just as open to the fact that that it could have been transmitted in a number of other ways, and they might never really find out how. I hope to God this does not happen to anyone out there, but society is as it is today.

Once again, I say that we need common sense education for the masses, that is my campaign...education, common sense, more education, and get rid of all the hysteria and misconceptions that are out there about the disease. And rather than point fingers at people in this thread, I actually thought most of you were pretty well informed about it :) But I do have a strong background in it due to my job and what I have done with public education, and do tend to speak out rather forcefully about it.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 35

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 10/10/2006 7:31:53 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The local health department where I live doesn't even test for herpes because they say most people have it, so you're not the only one I've heard that from. If most adults have been exposed to it, then why are there commercials on TV making such a big deal about it? People see that and think "Oh my gosh, I get occasional cold sores. Oh no, it can be spread even when I don't have symptons. I'll never even be able to kiss anyone without possibly infecting them." I've known alot of people that get occasional cold sores and I never thought it was a big deal until I saw the Valtrex commercials. So how can one prevent transmitting cold sores if they can't afford supressive therapy, mouth condoms?

Please remember that the tv commercials are PAID FOR by the manufacturers who make and sell the drugs. They are not there to make a "big deal" about herpes, they're making people aware that medication is out there and available and they want to sell it and make money. And, as in all advertising, they want to scare people, and rouse their interest in the drug. It's advertising.

They do carry some good information, though. And, since a lot of people with symptoms do not even tell their doctors they have it, to avoid embarrassment, the commercials are getting the word out that the drugs are available. But just remember, it's advertising from the manufacturers, not herpes-hype put out there by the tv stations.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 36

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 11/3/2006 9:21:43 PM

prefer2sub

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline

Can I say CHANGE DOCTORS immediately? I used to work in a doctor's office and the one thing I told patients OVER and over was, if you are NOT happy with the treatment or lack of treatment you are receiving, there are plenty of doctors out there who will listen to what you have to say. You need to find a doctor who specializes in internal medicine or viral diseases. They are more specialized and will know what treatment to start you on to not only control the herpes but also restart your immune system.

Go to your phone now, and call friends or your local medical society and get a referral. I wish you nothing but the best of luck finding a great new doctor.

--j/Miss J

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 37

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 11/6/2006 11:17:20 AM

librarygrl

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/5/2006
Status: offline

thank you so much for this well thought out and informed response. you rock!
(this is my first participation on this message board... hope I"m doing it right.)
:)

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 38

RE: HERPES IN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES, ADVICE FOR FRIEND - 11/6/2006 2:23:45 PM

joyinslavery

Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

While I acknowledge this is a very serious issue met with wonderful responses here, I'm a little surprised the mods have let this go as long as it has. I thought unmentionables were verboten. Are unmentionables okay in this particular forum?

Just checking so I'll know if I ever have any unmentionables to mention.

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to librarygrl)

Post #: 39

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