The US and guns

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NorthernGent -> The US and guns (10/12/2006 10:35:36 AM)
What is the fascination with guns in the US? Now I know it's in the constituion but wasn't that written in 1776 when there was about 826 people living in the US and the arms referred to were flintlock muskets that required about 13 steps to fire - in other words, by the time it was fired you could have swerved the thing. These things weren't exactly .70mm hand howitzers with an infra red scope and armour-piercing bullets. If the answer is that Americans needed to arm themselves 225 years ago in a war with Britain don't worry about it, there's no way we're going to pull that shit again, we can't even run a bath anymore let alone a military campaign. Surely it would be better to have a pub on every corner rather than a gun shop? After all, if you want filling with shots, better to be vodka than bullets. Or even swap licencing laws so we can get a beer after 12 at night but you can't get a gun after 12 night - might save a few lives. So what is the attraction of owning guns?

Aileen68 -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 10:52:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent So what is the attraction of owning guns? Protection. I live in an area that has no police force. We rely on the state police to patrol and respond to calls. The average response time is about fifteen minutes (they patrol a large area). Fifteen minutes is a long time to wait if someone or some animal is trying to enter my house.

LadyEllen -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 10:53:17 AM)
NG - have you ever owned a gun? I take it you havent, otherwise you wouldnt be asking the question! I have - three in fact. An air rifle and an air pistol - which barely count as guns I know, but still. The third was a 12 bore matchlock musket, which I owned for battle reenactment (ECW). It was a wonderful thing - three shots per minute when you really get good with loading;powder, wad, projectile, wad, return ramrod, prime, blow the match to glowing, open the pan, pull the trigger, poof! one cloud of sulphury smoke, and whatever you were aiming at was blown to bits! The only bad thing about it was cleaning the thing - gun powder makes such a mess. Obviously, we didnt use projectiles in battle reenactment by the way - bit too dangerous that. But using it for target shooting and clay pigeon shooting was brilliant! Nothing more satisfying! It was classed as a shotgun - indeed we used shot if actually shooting more than smoke for reenactment, but it could take a large ball too (but totally illegal to do so) that would rip someone in half (thus the ban). I would never shoot someone or an animal NG, and I appreciate the argument that shooting someone/an animal is the purpose of weapons, but that just isnt me. Something I'd like to do one day is visit Las Vegas - where in the surrounding desert I understand, one can take a tour which includes shooting off machine guns - not just the little ones, but the proper machine guns. I cant think of anything more exciting! But then, I am a nutter, as you know! What I do not understand, is why as a law abiding, reasonably sane, tax paying, educated and intelligent person - I should not be allowed to own a gun? After all, the lawbreaking, insane, low browed wasters involved in crime seem to be able to have one. E

NorthernGent -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 10:56:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent So what is the attraction of owning guns? Protection. I live in an area that has no police force. We rely on the state police to patrol and respond to calls. The average response time is about fifteen minutes (they patrol a large area). Fifteen minutes is a long time to wait if someone or some animal is trying to enter my house. That will be someone from CM who's been reading your "I'm horny" thread. Is it really that bad over there that someone is trying to attack you on a regular basis?

Rumtiger -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:01:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen NG - have you ever owned a gun? I take it you havent, otherwise you wouldnt be asking the question! I have - three in fact. An air rifle and an air pistol - which barely count as guns I know, but still. The third was a 12 bore matchlock musket, which I owned for battle reenactment (ECW). It was a wonderful thing - three shots per minute when you really get good with loading;powder, wad, projectile, wad, return ramrod, prime, blow the match to glowing, open the pan, pull the trigger, poof! one cloud of sulphury smoke, and whatever you were aiming at was blown to bits! The only bad thing about it was cleaning the thing - gun powder makes such a mess. Obviously, we didnt use projectiles in battle reenactment by the way - bit too dangerous that. But using it for target shooting and clay pigeon shooting was brilliant! Nothing more satisfying! It was classed as a shotgun - indeed we used shot if actually shooting more than smoke for reenactment, but it could take a large ball too (but totally illegal to do so) that would rip someone in half (thus the ban). I would never shoot someone or an animal NG, and I appreciate the argument that shooting someone/an animal is the purpose of weapons, but that just isnt me. Something I'd like to do one day is visit Las Vegas - where in the surrounding desert I understand, one can take a tour which includes shooting off machine guns - not just the little ones, but the proper machine guns. I cant think of anything more exciting! But then, I am a nutter, as you know! What I do not understand, is why as a law abiding, reasonably sane, tax paying, educated and intelligent person - I should not be allowed to own a gun? After all, the lawbreaking, insane, low browed wasters involved in crime seem to be able to have one. E You must mean Front Sight, its a tactical firearms training institute that specilizes in personal security. The key word being training, it is not just some lacluster gun range, it's a world class place for teaching firearms usage and even some unarmed ability. I went back when I was 18, best part was getting trained on the Cobray M11. If your going just to shoot though, dont bother, not only will you get turned away but you'll find the prices are not for you. If you wanna just come to Vegas to shoot the main tourist attraction is The Gun Store, thats the whole name, where you can shoot just about any weapon of your choice.

Aileen68 -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:04:19 AM)
I live not far from a major highway that runs directly into NYC. For quite a while the area was getting daytime breakins. They would hit the house and be out of the area quickly due to the easy highway access. I've only had to pull the gun out once and that was due to a very large bear becoming aggressive toward my dog in my yard. But it's nice to know that I can pull out that gun if I need it.

LadyEllen -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:08:31 AM)
Thanks Tiger - I will admit, I'm not really interested in combat training! All I wanna do, is shoot a really big machine gun! Preferably at an old car or something! How does one type a maniacal laugh I wonder!? E

ToGiveDivine -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:09:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent So what is the attraction of owning guns? Protection. I live in an area that has no police force. We rely on the state police to patrol and respond to calls. The average response time is about fifteen minutes (they patrol a large area). Fifteen minutes is a long time to wait if someone or some animal is trying to enter my house. That will be someone from CM who's been reading your "I'm horny" thread. Is it really that bad over there that someone is trying to attack you on a regular basis? Don't belittle Aileen - what, you've never been horny? I'm glad she is and I hope she finds the most talented manin the world, who is also a gentleman and extremely respectul, to help her out. NorthernGent, you don't need a gun - you're France, you'd just break it when you dropped it as you were surrendering anyway. And yes, I'm directing my flame at you, because that was a callous thing to say to Aileen. To Aileen, my apologies for stepping in, you don't need me to defend you; just want you to know chivalry ain't dead, it's just misapplied at times.

LaTigresse -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:10:14 AM)
I am thinking about this one. I know it is a hot button for some people on both sides of the issue. I would say I am moreso in the middle. I know alot of people that should NOT have a gun and I know ALOT more people that do have guns. I grew up in a house that had them. Never gave it a second thought. I began target shooting when I was still a kid, was a natural and I still love it. I enjoy going to the police range and blasting at the moving and popup targets on the training field I started hunting deer when I was still in my teens, it was meat for the freezer. I no longer hunt because I can now afford to buy meat where I couldn't before. I do still have many aquaintances that enjoy hunting and I have no problem eating what they hunt when it is offered. I would venture a guess that at least 90 - 100% of my neighbours own guns and that does not bother me at all. I don't think it is an obsession for me at all. It is just a part of life. It's not scary or abnormal. I don't think making them illegal is going to change crime one bit. Those that want them for criminal purposes will get them guaranteed. I know, my exhusband always did. However I don't consider wether I own a gun or not to be a deterent to a criminal that may want to get into my house. It's just not that sort of neighbourhood. I would have a higher risk of getting attacked by a mad cow protecting her calf. The way I see it is that owning guns has become such an ingrained part of US culture that many bristle at the idea of having the right to own them taken away, wether we really want the damned things all that badly or not. It's more the principle rather than the actual "having". Although we, as a nation, are damned good at wanting to "have" all sorts of unnecessary crap.

LadyEllen -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:15:58 AM)
NG - about your suggestion to put a pub on every corner, to replace gun shops..... well, yes, that would certainly reduce violent crime, I'd say. After all, we all know what safe and civil places British town centres are with all the drinking going on. How's that song go again? 20 pints of Boddingtons, every Friday night 20 pints of Boddingtons, then its outside for a fight.. (Macc Ladds - c. 1980s - a band from Macclesfield who told it how it was back then - and now its worse! BTW Macclesfield is just outside Manchester, so NG will know what this is about, even if our US friends wont!) E

SenseofBelonging -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:18:40 AM)
i think the proper way is "bwa-ha-ha-ha"

NorthernGent -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:18:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 I live not far from a major highway that runs directly into NYC. For quite a while the area was getting daytime breakins. They would hit the house and be out of the area quickly due to the easy highway access. I've only had to pull the gun out once and that was due to a very large bear becoming aggressive toward my dog in my yard. But it's nice to know that I can pull out that gun if I need it. To be fair Aileen, robbery is a big thing over here too. It would be interesting to see the comparison between the US and Britain. Think I'll do a search, see what I can find. Fair enough, you want security. Don't think I'd fancy going toe to toe with a bear so I take your point. More importantly, do you live anywhere near Tony Soprano and Paulie?

meatcleaver -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:20:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent If the answer is that Americans needed to arm themselves 225 years ago in a war with Britain don't worry about it, there's no way we're going to pull that shit again, we can't even run a bath anymore let alone a military campaign. If you read about the war of independence you will find that the mythic status of guns was already deeply embedded in the American psyche by then. The biggest mystery of all is why it was never embedded in the Canadian psyche in the same way. The only answer I can think of is that they were loyal to the empire and a culture where the state protects the citizens rather the citizens having to protect themselves from each other. Who knows, its a mystery.

toservez -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:21:46 AM)
Probably many reasons why Americans like guns so much. Part of our culture to me seems the biggest one. From our earliest history a gun in the house was a necessary thing for food and protection. Then genrations after generations this grows into hunting hobby and is ingrained to many Americans. Protection for some is quite legit and I do not mean to downplay it but most people that is used for more of an excuse then reality. Facts are overwhelming that guns that get used on a person someone knows then a complete stranger. We have a lot of paranoid people. To me a reason that it seems unacceptable to mention is that most people think guns are just cool and they can own one so why not? Go over to a foreign country and see there eyes bulge out not in being scared but in an exciteable way when you tell them you can walk into a store and come out with a gun and bullets. We host many foreign people where I work and one of the common things people do is take them to a shooting range. Most get more excited or enjoy it more than anything else you do with them. So I do not think Americans are a different breed but because of our history and our laws, this is what you get.

NorthernGent -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:21:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent So what is the attraction of owning guns? Protection. I live in an area that has no police force. We rely on the state police to patrol and respond to calls. The average response time is about fifteen minutes (they patrol a large area). Fifteen minutes is a long time to wait if someone or some animal is trying to enter my house. That will be someone from CM who's been reading your "I'm horny" thread. Is it really that bad over there that someone is trying to attack you on a regular basis? Don't belittle Aileen - what, you've never been horny? I'm glad she is and I hope she finds the most talented manin the world, who is also a gentleman and extremely respectul, to help her out. NorthernGent, you don't need a gun - you're France, you'd just break it when you dropped it as you were surrendering anyway. And yes, I'm directing my flame at you, because that was a callous thing to say to Aileen. To Aileen, my apologies for stepping in, you don't need me to defend you; just want you to know chivalry ain't dead, it's just misapplied at times. Give it a rest. I know there's a humour difference but I was suggesting that Aileen is a very good looking girl. Add to that her own "I'm horny" thread and you have a recipe for a stampede of men herding in her direction - animal instinct? Oh, forget it.

SenseofBelonging -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:22:43 AM)
there is a small town in georgia which, several years ago, passed a law making it mandatory for each head of household to keep a gun in the home. since enactment, crime rates have dropped like the proverbial stone.

ToGiveDivine -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:26:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Give it a rest. I know there's a humour difference but I was suggesting that Aileen is a very good looking girl. Add to that her own "I'm horny" thread and you have a recipe for a stampede of men herding in her direction - animal instinct? Oh, forget it. I was going for exasperating ;-D Sometimes it's not easy being an itch that can't be scratched and then some days the talent is just there - now, if I could just use my power for good [&o]

ToGiveDivine -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:30:48 AM)
Another reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution was to provide a way for the people to protect themselves from the government (our government). We've never used this right, but the 13 Original Colonies were were sceptical of a Federal Government - since every "Federal" government in history has abused it's power in one way or another, I don't think they were too far off base.

MasterKalif -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:31:43 AM)
NorthernGent, good topic as always....in any case, it is true this crazy fascination with guns is the fear of "protection" and so forth....which I can understand as I got robbed about two years ago, and the police were never able to help me out, they even refused to take finger prints....the cops in the US in my opinion are good for just being a pain in the "kebaba", like pulling me over for going a bit over the speed limit.... I think it is a cultural thing that is ingrained, as it is in the constitution, they see it as a right, which in my opinion makes little sense....sure is it fun to own a gun? probably....I want to take shooting lessons someday, would be fun. But the tragedy of the thing is that a thief can find a gun in your house and use it against you....or the family's children could find it and go on a killing spree or kill someone accidentally. I do worry if my neighbors own a gun, because I wouldn't trust them with one. Luckily I live in an apt complex, so I doubt that to be the case.

caitlyn -> RE: The US and guns (10/12/2006 11:33:47 AM)
You would have to live here in America, to really understand ... not that not understanding has ever stopped you from commenting about nearly anything having to do with America. [;)]

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