Old Guard versus Old School... (Full Version)

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masterLon3446 -> Old Guard versus Old School... (1/25/2005 5:34:38 AM)

I have been reading profiles here in collarme.com from heterosexual women, That claim to be in old guard slavery or actually part of old guard, Just wanted to explain something to everyone... "Old Guard" started in the late 40's, gay men coming out of the military, Took with them protocols, Changed them around a little and used them in the lifestyle, The heterosexual folks also needed more structure, they in turn took of these protocols and also changed them a little more and used for the lifestyle also. Now heterosexual people can be taught "old guard" ways, But, Why? When the heterosexual had their own ways called "old school"??
My Parents were old school, I was old school taught, There are many places here online that discusses "old guard" and its meaning, As well as real timers, That know the difference. There was this guy that came to the club that I a member of, He claimed "old guard", The male submissives gave him a lot of attention and he was quite put off about this, Insulted actually, He was told the difference and was asked if he would like to learn the lifestyle, Well, He left the club embarrassed, Never did return, Being "old school" is not a major deal nor is "old guard". This is the modern BDSM, Most are seeking something not associated with ancient times..lol..

MasterLon




ShiftedJewel -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/25/2005 6:10:58 AM)

MasterLon,
I have to agree with you that this is the modern BDSM, and it truly appears that most are not looking for something "old school".... I just don't know yet if that is a good thing or not, personally I'm still hoping to see it revived.

Jewel



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/25/2005 7:52:32 PM)

My personal opinion is that much of the current influx of folks to BDSM is based on a need for more structure in the interpersonal relationships. As old mores of social interaction have been swept away on the tide of cultural change, many have been left adrift with little or no idea how to function in the vacuum of moral relativism. Some see BDSM and D/s, M/s and O/p relationships as a means to a more comfortable, structured approach to mating.

This desire for structure is often reflected in the attempt to codify aspects of WIITWD and to enforce arbitrary determinations of right and wrong. Lists abound claiming that SSC, RACK or whatever is the defining difference between BDSM and abuse. There are, as well, sundry litmus tests or acid tests that propose to determine the same.

For some folks, individuality is only acceptable within pre-determined parameters. That type of mentality might find comfort in the idea of driving BDSM participants to some idyllic version of "The Good Old Days". Despite their best efforts, I think the majority will still do whatever it is they feel to be most fulfilling.
Timothy



masterLon3446 -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/25/2005 8:06:46 PM)

domtimothy, I believe that we all have our own paths to walk and not any two are the same, I like to think we all have the same common goal, We just get there our own way...jewel...."old school" is dieing not many out there even care anymore for the rituals and ceremonies of the "good old days", All things change in time, but also all things seem to come back to where they started also in time. Maybe one day in the future other lifestylers will again say " we need more structure" and then guess what...Maybe....
MasterLon



Darthbetta -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/25/2005 8:29:45 PM)

I follow "DARTHOLOGY".

.........Make it up as I go and custom tailor all aspects to I and my subs needs and wants.




MadameDahlia -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/25/2005 9:54:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterLon3446

I have been reading profiles here in collarme.com from heterosexual women, That claim to be in old guard slavery or actually part of old guard


-falls over laughing, unable to control the fit of amusement-

I've seen twenty year old straight men who are completely and utterly without a doubt Old Guard... Until they're linked to an article that goes into a deep and detailed description of what that really means! -snickers-

Some of them don't know what it means and seem very happy to have found out. Others have told me that it's impossible that a bunch of "gays" (only they often use another word!) could have come up with something so upstanding in the BDSM community....

One of these days I hope their soap box explodes.



mantis65 -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/26/2005 1:45:26 AM)

i like DARTHOLOGY! sounds good!



lovingmaster45 -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/26/2005 3:58:07 AM)

If anyone is interested in seeing/meeting people who are old guard and/or old school, they should go to a gay leather sponsored event....don't worry, you won't get contaminated and they don't bite...not very hard anyway. We are having one here in Wilmington in March;
http://www.mollyguard.com/event/15364957

I am neither old guard nor old school; I am just old...lol.



BlackFireNova -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/26/2005 12:52:17 PM)

I've seen this discussion time after time, over the years. I've come to the conclusion that the only real answer is that each person in each individual situation approach people without presuming they will either hold to, or accept the same "definition" of a particular word, or term.

We A/all can find so much more enjoyment in meeting and talking with new F/friends if W/we are prepared to explain O/our views without feeling W/we must defend them, and in turn being willing to hear and accept other views without falling into the trap of believing that W/we must "educate" those who's views don't match O/ours.

In the end, words are just words, it's the people themselves that matter.

Master BlackFireNova



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/26/2005 1:04:34 PM)

quote:

I've seen this discussion time after time, over the years. I've come to the conclusion that the only real answer is that each person in each individual situation approach people without presuming they will either hold to, or accept the same "definition" of a particular word, or term.


Ok, fair enough.

quote:

We A/all can find so much more enjoyment in meeting and talking with new F/friends if W/we are prepared to explain O/our views without feeling W/we must defend them, and in turn being willing to hear and accept other views without falling into the trap of believing that W/we must "educate" those who's views don't match O/ours.


Well, this I don't agree with. In as much as it sounds very 'I'm ok, you're ok' if we don't educate people, than we have no benchmark. I don't get into pissing matches with people. I say what I think and put it out there. If someone asks a question, I'm happy to further explain, so while you are lumping us all in with 'our' and 'we', I'd ask you to take me out of your generalizations.

Views are all realtive. What's important is, when I am expressing myself, that I am clear so that the other person or people who are my audience understand what I am saying. Whether they agree or not is up to them.


quote:

In the end, words are just words, it's the people themselves that matter.


Well, if words are just words, then why are there linguists? Hell, why bother with a language? Because if I say Cat when I mean Thunderstorm, it should be ok because I'm a good person.

Lily

Master BlackFireNova



sailingsub -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/26/2005 6:13:20 PM)

MasterLon3446,

The Old Guard option is the only thing available to the slave profile and was the closest thing that describes my willingness and desire to engage in "old school" Master/slave dynamics with protocol and formality of roles.

Respectfully,

-w



DreamWeaverAz -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/26/2005 7:49:25 PM)

This is a topic I hoped to find here. I rather prefer the older ways of things compared to the more modern ways. It just seems though that just about anywhere One looks the old ways have been tucked away and or forgotten. that being said E/each must find T/thier own path in the L/s and make of it what suits them best be it Modern or Old. I do hope to encounter more of the Old Style ways personally though.

just a new Patron to the sites thoughts.

DW



VyperX -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/26/2005 9:01:39 PM)

quote:

The Old Guard option is the only thing available to the slave profile and was the closest thing that describes my willingness and desire to engage in "old school" Master/slave dynamics with protocol and formality of roles.


Ditto. From the other side.



LovingStrength -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/28/2005 9:50:16 AM)

The one thing I found, through my studies and research, is that most likely the gay community got the idea of 'Old Guard' from paganism, witchcraft. There is quite a lot of literature on the subject. Not all argree. But one of the older facts stated, is that an old guard pagan was a Master, or even a High Priest. Anyway, I don't claim to know or even understand it all. Since I am not pagan (though I find it interesting). You might want to put in your browser "Old guard Master" "Old Guard Pagan" and see what comes up. Just some more things to confuse all the issues.LOL.



DomButNotForgotn -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/28/2005 12:36:22 PM)

Ummmm - you left out "Old Leather". As long as you are going to have a discussion on semantics and definitions of discipline styles as they apply to BDSM (gay or straight), you may as well waste more time including all the possible phrases that have been used. I'm sure there are more than Old School, Old Guard, and Old Leather...

Mark
Boston, MA



ShadeDiva -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/28/2005 7:20:27 PM)

Used Leather

Hard Leather

Soft Leather

Supple Leather

....

Hm.

lol

~ShadeDiva



LordODiscipline -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/28/2005 8:23:35 PM)

Then there is the absolutely misguided belief that all of the people who lived at this time and 'walked the walk" walked those steps in lock step.

There is no uniformity in these aclaimed groups from the old days.

Some had regimentation, some did not - some did it 'this way' - others did it 'that' way.

To state that one is "Old School" or (even - ugh) Old Guard a a significant misnomer and denys the variability and the disparity that did and does exist with people in leather.



LordODiscipline -> RE: Old Guard versus Old School... (1/28/2005 8:24:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingStrength

The one thing I found, through my studies and research, is that most likely the gay community got the idea of 'Old Guard' from paganism, witchcraft. There is quite a lot of literature on the subject. Not all argree. But one of the older facts stated, is that an old guard pagan was a Master, or even a High Priest. Anyway, I don't claim to know or even understand it all. Since I am not pagan (though I find it interesting). You might want to put in your browser "Old guard Master" "Old Guard Pagan" and see what comes up. Just some more things to confuse all the issues.LOL.


Please provide us with a solid reference for this.

I have never read or heard of such.

Thank you

~J



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