RE: Letting Go Of Limits (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/17/2006 11:57:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather
To the OP:

My sig other and I don't really talk in terms of "limits", but there are things that I am less comfortable with than others, and would they come up, the conversation we may have surrounding them may look like a conversation about "limits" but we don't really use that term. When I chose to submit to my dom, I chose to not have the right to say "I won't do this" or "I want to do that". That doesnt mean that internal limits don't exist, we just approach the concept from a different angle. He has not historically been about "pushing limits" for the sake of it, so our orientation toward limits fits one another nicely. We prefer to take things as they come and be present with them in the moment.

I find that as my relationship with my sig other grows and deepens, I don't think in terms of "limits" so much anyway, but rather in terms of continued exploration and creation of deeper intimacy between us. I'm not out to conquer all my fears for the sake of conquering them or for giving up limits in order to prove anything (my love, my submission, my trust) but rather Im just open to the broadening and deepening of "us". If this organically produces limit-stretching experiences, I welcome them --not because they are opportunities to throw off limits but rather opportunities to experience newer and deeper intimacy in my relationship.

There are things that terrify me and I don't know what my response would be if tomorrow he chose to confront me with one of those things. I do know that if he were to do it, it would be in a thoughtful and responsible manner, which is why I can psychologically afford to orient myself toward the idea from an intimacy-building as opposed to a limit-breaking perspective.


Hello A/all,

I suppose my idea has to do with what the limit means to the person.  I learned long ago (from other people telling me, as well as my own observations) that I can be extremely persuasive.  Let me say for example that I use my powers of persuasion and convince this person to give up her limit.  She gives it up because I told her to..  Something I did not foresee happening in her psyche happens because that limit was something which may have been a defense mechanism from her past.  Now I have taken something that worked (for whatever reason) which I did not truly understand, and I have broken it.  She trusted me to take care of her and keep her safe, and I let her down on a profoundly deep level.

This is not my kink.  I know I can convince people of all sorts of things, I really dont need further confirmation of this.  julia has a limit she stated.  I dont tie up much of my ego in whether or not she has a limit.  My kink is closer to being a catalyst for the other person's self discovery.  This is why I am not overly interested in the other person's rationalizations for things.  I want the other person to look deep within themselves and find out their own answers.  They dont even really need to tell me what the answer is.  As Trinity said in the Matrix, "It is the question which drives us."

So after asking julia to look into her own thoughts to find her own answer, she had a realization of her own.  This eventually resulted in her calling and telling me she no longer had the limit she spoke of, and she explained why.  It was not even related to what we were talking about.

I was a bit shocked, but in a good way.  She had always felt like her limit was letting me down in some way, which it was not. 

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy



canupleaseme -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/17/2006 11:59:52 AM)

yes i agree now ive been in the scene longer and spoken to others i have come to realise that limits dont have anything to do with how dominant someone is i might not like some extreme pain methods or other extreme things but i can spank with the best of them lol and thats good enough for me
i was  quite niave (sp:S) when i first got into bdsm and thought it was all about the actions but i must say iits now all about the mind control for me the actions are meerly play if i cant control you mentally restraint and spanking is just no fun



raiken -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/17/2006 12:03:17 PM)


[/quote]

I dont like the idea that I cannot handle the truth, so I seek it out at every opportunity even if I find it unpleasant to learn.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy
[/quote]
 
This is a great thread.
 
It is better to deal with and learn of and accept the truth, then try to maintain a lie.  By a lie, i mean living in denial of truths and glossing it over with an excuse as to not have to face it.  Over the years, i had found myself doing just that.  Finding the courage within myself to face my own fears, my own demons and venture into my darker regions, will be a never ending journey. 
 
There were limits i had imposed on myself so long ago, that i forgot they existed.  While they may have been self preservation mechanisms at the time, and may have served a purpose at the time, i find that i had forgotten to remove them when no longer needed.  So those limits altered my behavior, my rational, my thought processes and all unbeknownst to me on a conscious level. 
 
Sometimes it takes another person to enter in and wake me up from my slumber of complacency and jump start my growth from time to time.  i am grateful that i had at least built up enough trust within myself to allow that to occur, and take a chance on trusting another with my vulnerabilities, after being badly burned a couple of times.  So for me, limits are really more of a means (of protection) that lead to an end, and the key is knowing when to end the use of self imposed limits in the first place.  It is to let go.  Limits for me, in the sense of self protection had become part of my mental attire.  It was damn hard to strip down naked and begin again, but in some areas that was the only choice if i wanted to shed and grow once more.
 
While i have limits, they are those that mesh with my line of integrity, they are things that just go against my grain, or my personal ethos, hard wiring or whatever one wishes to call it.  Other things that can be considered limits within the M/s dynamic, are those that challenge me to gain internal muscle, courage, and perhaps may even cause a shift in my paradigm.  It seems that even in the nilla realm, i have been surrounded by others who just by their very nature have caused me to challenge myself to raise the personal barr.
 
i greatly enjoyed reading this thread. *smile





kyraofMists -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/17/2006 3:35:35 PM)

I do not use the terminology of hard and soft limits.  To me a limit is a limit.  However, I do distinguish between something that would be harmful to my well-being and something that I just don’t want to do.  Something is a boundary when doing it would be harmful to my well-being either physically, mentally or emotionally.  A limit is something that I really don’t want to do, scares me, disgusts me, etc. but not necessarily something that will harm me.

In my current relationship, I have no limits that I have imposed.  The only limits that I have are ones that he has and what he decides to make a limit for me.  My boundaries are something that he determines through conversations and experience.  There have been things that have occurred and later realized that it is harmful to me or to the relationship and he backed away from doing them.  To date there have been few boundaries set between he and I.  Most things he will not risk if there is any doubt in his mind if it will harm me or not but it is not often that he decides, this is a boundary and will not be crossed.

There are so many things that I was terrified to even think about when he and I started interacting two years ago and now I eagerly look forward to them.  Knife play, cutting, blood play, fire play, kicking, punching are a few examples.  Within our first week as a formal relationship he did four of these right away.  Blood play and kicking happened a few months later.  Needless to say the fear of doing these things made them seem worse than what they actually were. 

I have found that for me doing things that I have previously considered as limits was more about gaining confidence in myself and my ability to handle things within the relationship and play than in the level of trust I have in him.  The more I learned about myself and accepted who and what I am, the more I was eager to try new things.  The more experiences I have, the more I want expand my limits and boundaries.

Knight's kyra



juliaoceania -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/17/2006 5:56:14 PM)

 
quote:

There are so many things that I was terrified to even think about when he and I started interacting two years ago and now I eagerly look forward to them.  Knife play, cutting, blood play, fire play, kicking, punching are a few examples.  Within our first week as a formal relationship he did four of these right away.  Blood play and kicking happened a few months later.  Needless to say the fear of doing these things made them seem worse than what they actually were. 



There is one soft limit that we have already begun to ease me into, and I had to ask especially that he go there with me, and now I look forward to more of the same... and that is bondage.

I find that the fear in my mind of things is what I want to challenge and overcome. I do not want the fear of things that will not really harm me to keep me from exploring myself. Although our lists of things that scare us may differ, the emotion is the same...I would rather he control me than an irrational fear of something that has a low risk attached to it when done correctly.

quote:

I have found that for me doing things that I have previously considered as limits was more about gaining confidence in myself and my ability to handle things within the relationship and play than in the level of trust I have in him.  The more I learned about myself and accepted who and what I am, the more I was eager to try new things.  The more experiences I have, the more I want expand my limits and boundaries.


Exactly the thoughts that preceded me starting this thread, and what Celeste astutely picked up on also. It is hard to trust someone else if we do not know ourselves and what makes us tick... for me I think this is a lifelong journey with no planned destination...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts kyra



ownedgirlie -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/17/2006 8:56:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I believe Michael thinks that hard limits all involve mutilation, hurting children, scat play, forced bisexuality and the like... my limit was so not that dramatic.. but it was in my head....smiles


This was really the case for me too, Julia.  Not so much the physical dramas we hear so much about ("gee, would you let him cut off your arm?" - I would not have given myself to someone who wanted this).  My limitations - those I did not even realize I had - were in my psyche.   Could I go without such n such?  Could I live with such n such?  My paradigms set that stage for me and I was terrified to change what I knew, even though I was not progressing forward.

I am learning the imperitiveness (is that a word?) of knowing myself, and in doing so, understanding where fear controlled me, thus interfering with his control.

This is a refreshing thread.  Thank you for starting it :)



juliaoceania -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/17/2006 9:06:34 PM)

quote:

My limitations - those I did not even realize I had - were in my psyche.  


Freedom in submission... setting the psyche free, wow what a gift.



beltainefaerie -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/18/2006 1:16:47 AM)

I think we all go through this process in some way.  I heard someone joking about it, saying that, "I would NEVER do _____" means that we'll see you doing it in 6 months.  Clearly a joke as some limits are hard limits that stay with us for years or even forever, but I do think it is funny sometimes to look at things you thought you'd never do and realize that you do them often, or that they have at least moved into the realm of possible explorations.  It doesn't sound like this is the case for you, but other should remember that some limits are about health and safety and it is important to bear that in mind when you feel like you are on a journey to break down your walls, overcome your fears and fulfill your Master's every desire.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/18/2006 7:42:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

My limitations - those I did not even realize I had - were in my psyche.  


Freedom in submission... setting the psyche free, wow what a gift.

Your comment made me smile, Julia.

And yes, what a gift. :)



Celeste43 -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/18/2006 7:50:20 AM)

I've never limited anything because I was afraid of it. But I have made my terror known and he's removed that item from play as a result. My limits are physical, like inverted suspension which would cause vertigo, emotional of the sorts that set off panic attacks, and moral. I was careful to find someone who has the same moral values as I do and who wants to keep me in good shape. But also I'm into bondage more than s & m, and so I sought a partner who was more into bondage than s & m also.

As far as the stuff that gets me frightened, we've discovered that as long as I'm blindfolded and warmed up, he can use it to his heart's content. He just shouldn't tell me he's using it.



SassySue -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/18/2006 9:28:03 AM)

Great thread.  Will keep reading.



Sinergy -> RE: Letting Go Of Limits (10/18/2006 6:47:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

My limitations - those I did not even realize I had - were in my psyche.  


Freedom in submission... setting the psyche free, wow what a gift.


Buckaroo Banzai once said that "No matter where you go, there you are."

Truer words were never spoken.

Not sure what that has to do with the thread, but I love the hell out of that movie.

But to keep the post on topic.  A person's limit IS in their head.  I suppose there is a world we all agree exists, but, the only thing which is true for me is my own experience of this world. 

There is a freedom that comes from letting unpleasant or unwanted things go.  On the topic of this thread, the limit julia spoke about was not even a major issue for me, but she was chained (and not in a good way) by having it.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy



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