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RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 3:44:44 PM   
Kaledorus


Posts: 95
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline 		When I posted this thread I thought my remark: this empty wilderness, would have been sufficient to describe my main consideration on the topic of immigration. I make no real distinction between illegal and legal as the results are the same.
While there are many, many reasons to halt immigration right now this very minute to me the main issue is degradation of our environment and population density.
There has been so much farmland plowed under for subdivisions and malls and so on and without immigration this would NOT have occurred. I have read, just this year, numerous accounts from US Parks and wildlife agents of national and state, speaking about the harming of endangered plantlife and wildlife and the general ecology by immigrants. All the open spaces that refresh the soul that permits an unwinding from the stresses of life and so on, are disappearing. We see the intensification of competition for seats on public transit, parking, driving lanes, housing, jobs and so forth. Also a very serious amount of violent crime is attributable to immigrants.

Patrick J. Buchanan wrote yesterday:
quote:

According to a poll released Monday by the Center for Immigration Studies, 68 percent of Americans say immigration is too high. Only 2 percent believe it is too low. Yet the McCain-Kennedy-Bush bill would have granted amnesty to millions of illegal aliens and doubled the number of legal immigrants.

And what is happening to Los Angeles? According to Robert Putnam, Harvard political scientist and author of  Bowling Alone, the trust among people in "this most diverse human habitation in human history" is now at rock bottom, the lowest anywhere he could find. "In the presence of diversity," said Putnam, "we hunker down. We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it's not just that we don't trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities we don't trust people who look like us." [ Study paints bleak picture of ethnic diversity , by John Lloyd, Financial Times, October 8, 2006] The more people of different races that live in a community, the greater the loss of trust, said Putnam. "They don't trust the local mayor, they don't trust the local paper, they don't trust other people, and they don't trust institutions. ... The only thing there is more of is protest marches and TV watching."

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 3:54:19 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Ive seen the result of "diversisty" in the city next to mine.

There is a shooting almost every night and 3 different gangs walking the streets.

"it takes a village" TO RUIN A COUNTRY.

Build the Frikken border wall already.


JIM GILCHRIST for President 2008



_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to Kaledorus)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 4:04:57 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I can see why more people would have a negative effect on the environment. I can also see why major population growth makes it more difficult to get a job. As for immigrant related violence, this doesn't suprise me. Too many hard working Americans lost what they thought were stable jobs to immigrants and outsourcing. Too many people are still blaming prejudism on 911. It was devistating, but happened years ago. I think it has more to do with too many Americans being terminated for cheap labor or forced to take paycuts.

(in reply to Kaledorus)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 4:09:25 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Do you think the government refuses to stop outsourcing and immigration because of the violence you described? Are they afraid banning it will initiate more terrorist attacks in this country? If so, hasn't the government lost control of the country? I'd like to hear what people think about this.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 4:25:32 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I'm not much of an "Environmentalist" and I'm not a tree-hugger at all but I saw a program on the news -CNN, about just one rancher along the Mexican border and how because of illegal aliens he had to remove FIFTY TONS of trash from his property!
And those plastic milk jugs that they use to carry water in take a *thousand years* to break down and there's tens of millions of them in the dessert down there!
Who's supposed to pay for cleaning up all that stuff?
That's one thing that I do recycle, plastics,* very bad* for the ecology!

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 4:31:50 PM   
MistressCamille


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I think the fact that people make a living putting americans out of jobs and replacing them with immigrants is plenty of proof. I seriously doubt every one of those IT workers in the forum I read were lying. More proof?


Proof would be figures supporting your argument. Telling me that you know one guy that puts Americans out of jobs (or did you mean US citizens? America covers several continents) and gives them to immigrants would hardly make much difference country wide.

And these people who have their jobs taken from them, are they doing a good job? I can't imagine someone that does a good job getting the axe just so someone else with no track record can have that job. It's not good company policy. And if they did a lousy job they deserve to get fired. Ok, what I'd like to know is what company has a policy that says empty jobs must be filled by immigrants.

You keep talking abstract terms and "I know a guy" and you aren't giving me real facts. Just because you know one guy that says he's giving jobs to immigrants doesn't mean all jobs go to immigrants or that the ones losing the jobs didn't deserve to lose them.

I'm not saying you can't be right, just that you have been unable to show me that you are right. Huge difference.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 4:59:11 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Camille, the way that those H1b visas work is that a company first needs to advertise for an American Citizen to fill a job opening.
If they can't they have to "prove" to the govt. that no American Citizen is available for that position then they can fill it using an "H1b" worker.
Of course with all the tens of thousands of IT workers in Calif for example who are out of work "everyone" knows that there are plenty of workers here to do those jobs but not for the $30k per year that they can get an IT worker from India as opposed to the $100,000 it would cost that company for an American worker.
What these companies do is take out "Ads" and then just never reply to anyone who answers them.
It's obviously Fraud but "our" govt. doesn't seem to be too interested in prosecuting these companies because lo and behold, they make tens of millions of dollars of political contributions with some of the money they're saving by hiring foreign H1B workers at 1/3 of the cost of American workers!
And the U.S. District Atty's Offices know this is going on just like the general public but they won't prosecute these companies for fraud.
This govt is rotten from the very top to the very bottom.
They just DO NOT listen to The People anymore.

(in reply to MistressCamille)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 5:03:10 PM   
MistressCamille


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Camille, the way that those H1b visas work is that a company first needs to advertise for an American Citizen to fill a job opening.


If it's a job "opening" it means nobody is being replaced. The job is open. Right?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 5:33:41 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressCamille


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Camille, the way that those H1b visas work is that a company first needs to advertise for an American Citizen to fill a job opening.


If it's a job "opening" it means nobody is being replaced. The job is open. Right?



Camille, oh no,what they do first is lay off the American workers not fire them so they are being "replaced.
And a lot of times what these companies do is have the American worker who's making $100k actually train the H1B worker before they lay them off and the H1B worker then takes that job for $30k and lives in apartment with 6 other H1B workers!
It's like modern day slavery almost.
We're talking TOTAL corruption here! It's a real nightmare!
Almost like the Mafia has taken over the govt. but the "Lieutenants" are Lobbyists wearing $1,000 Hickey-Freeman suits.
Yes, unfortunately millions of Americans have been "replaced" like this.
Isn't this "Global Economy" great?

(in reply to MistressCamille)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 5:38:52 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		A company can advertise saying there's an open position and then fire the person who has worked there for years. If taken to court, it's doubtful the former employee would win. Most applications state that the employer can get rid of a worker with or without reason. Also, I'm sure these IT people don't deserve to lose their jobs or they would've been fired years before the H1b visa workers showed up. Immigration needs to be stopped until more strict laws on corporations are imposed. It also needs to stop until the prospective employee/available job ratio improves. Then immigrants could be slowly brought in without all these job shortages.

(in reply to MistressCamille)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 5:45:35 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for explaining it so well popeye. I have heard many times about the American IT workers training their replacements. I'm still trying to figure out why mistresscamille has never heard of any of this.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 6:35:09 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Shoot.

I remember when labor was being totally destroyed during the Reagan/Bush 1980's by outsourcing and factories moving overseas.......and snobby white collar workers
had a "ha! Hah!...no one wants your job anyway" attitude.

Amazing how the shoe is on the other foot now.

Nafta/Gatt/mai/Cafta/Wto was such a good idea.....







< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 10/20/2006 6:36:42 PM >

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 7:01:03 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, the white collars have plenty of people to take the jobs..........they have B1 visas.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 7:03:25 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

A company can advertise saying there's an open position and then fire the person who has worked there for years. If taken to court, it's doubtful the former employee would win. Most applications state that the employer can get rid of a worker with or without reason. Also, I'm sure these IT people don't deserve to lose their jobs or they would've been fired years before the H1b visa workers showed up. Immigration needs to be stopped until more strict laws on corporations are imposed. It also needs to stop until the prospective employee/available job ratio improves. Then immigrants could be slowly brought in without all these job shortages.


Defiant, we have those laws on the books now just like we have immigration laws currently on the books.
The problem is that *our government* is not Enforcing those laws!

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 7:15:45 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		That just proves one of my greatest fears. The government is afraid to enforce anything because the immigrants might riot or perform terrorist attacks. There are too many  immigrants now and the government is afraid. They have lost control of our country.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 7:30:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

That just proves one of my greatest fears. The government is afraid to enforce anything because the immigrants might riot or perform terrorist attacks. There are too many  immigrants now and the government is afraid. They have lost control of our country.


Are these the legal or the illegal immigrants that are rioting in the streets? I am unaware of any legal or illegal immigrant rioting having occured, but perhaps I am just out of the loop

Perhaps you are making up boogiemen to be afraid of?

What was the terror alert color level today? Puce?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 7:47:09 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		They haven't been rioting...BUT..they have been Protesting.

Lets not forget the millions of illegals and legal mexicans who showed up a few months back for "A day without gringos"..
in downtown Los Angeles.

The same people who think the American southwest belongs to Mexico.

They think it is the mythical landof what they call "Aztlan".

Its pure 100% Bullshite.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 8:01:45 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Making up boogymen? Not me, but maybe the government. There has to be some reason why they don't inforce the laws on immigrant workers.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 8:19:09 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

They haven't been rioting...BUT..they have been Protesting.

Lets not forget the millions of illegals and legal mexicans who showed up a few months back for "A day without gringos"..
in downtown Los Angeles.

The same people who think the American southwest belongs to Mexico.

They think it is the mythical landof what they call "Aztlan".

Its pure 100% Bullshite.


Protesting is illegal? Funny, I thought you would be the first one to approve of dissent... guess I was wrong

BTW, my great nephew is half Mexican, his father's parents were born in Mexico, they are here legally, but they are not citizens.. his father was born here...My niece married this young man.

I fail to understand the hatred, I guess fear does this to people

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! - 10/20/2006 8:26:17 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Oh, the white collars have plenty of people to take the jobs..........they have B1 visas.

A b1 Visa is a temporary visa (generally 6 months) issued to Business travellers, not to immigrants. It is generally not possible to extend a B1 visa, or to change it to another type of visa while in the US.

According to the rules on visas types and permitted activities, it is against the rules for a person with a B1 Visa to engage in anything like holding a job that an American had. the things prohibitted are:
- Running a business.
- "Gainful employment".
- Payment by an organization within the US.
- Participating as a professional in entertainment or sporting events.

There is a provision for allowing a person with a B1 visa to work, but the visa must be specifically issued before entry and it is for a limited period of time and has some rather specific limitations
1) The work to be undertaken in the US must be in a 'speciality occupation'
2) The worker must permanently employed (i.e. not a contractor) and paid by the employer outside the US
3) The worker may receive no compensation other than expenses from a US source
4) The worker must have a degree relevant to the services to be provided– there is no provision for work experience to be considered equivalent to a degree.

If your friend is indeed replacing US IT workers with holders of B1 Visas, then he (and his employer) are breaking the law, I suggest you call the INS.

As far as the proof you provided, "I know a guy" and "I read on lots of [unspecified and uncited] IT forums a lot of unemployed IT guys bitching about it" hardly constitutes anything even vaguely resembling proof.


_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

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(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 200
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