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RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:02:23 PM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I'm not judgemental. Most men swat women on the ass.....

STATS PLEASE???

nobody thinks anything of it. Slapping a woman in the face is considered abuse.

PLEASE SITE THE AUTHORITY AND AUTHOR????

I see men swat women at night clubs all the time. If a man were to strike a woman in the face at that same club, he would be taken out back for a gang beating.

UMMM We are not discussing vanilla night club activities here, but rather what is between folks in a relationship dynamic.

I've seen it happen many times. No real man strikes a woman in the face, just like no decent parent strikes a child in the face.......it's abuse.

Lets leave parenting out of this as it is off topic. Oh yeah you must be the new self appointed judge and jury of the forums now... Maybe you haven't had a good face slapping??? and maybe...just maybe... you may need one???*weg* evil thoughts...can't help it today... *grin

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 61

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:03:32 PM

Lorelei115

Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExtremeOwnerIL

Although I would offer that perhaps you internalized the lesson so well that perhaps you remember the punishment, which is usually true for most harder punishments, but the lesson was internalized well. I think that in the age I grew up, I can recall the hard whacks I got from the principal and/or parents, but not necessarily why - although I did no doubt learn the lessons from it.

I think the only thing I ever learned from corporal punishment is how to not get caught. But that's just me. *laugh*

_____________________________

A sucessful life is not measured by what we do
But by the realization
Of who we are.

(in reply to ExtremeOwnerIL)

Post #: 62

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:05:40 PM

ExtremeOwnerIL

Posts: 197
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline

juliaoceania:

I think, in essence, we both agree with each other on the need for education and good explanations of both sides of the issue. I did not believe you were disrespect and have appreciated your opinion, even if you do present a very strong wording that could lead to a conclusion that neither of us want.

My kindest regards to you,
EO

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 63

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:08:58 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

Akasha, the fact that he uses face slapping as a correction and not for pleasure makes it abuse. I had a man slap me. I screamed over and over again........then I called him a woman beating bastard. I asked him if he thought it made him a man to hit a woman......then said come on let's see what a man you are. It was very traumatizing and I left him. Unfurtunately, I still have to associate with him because we have a child together. To this day, I hate and resent him. If men smacking women in the face isn't wrong, then why isn't it accepted like swatting on the ass? I've never seen a man get the crap beat out of him or be called a woman beater over a swat.

(in reply to SlaveAkasha)

Post #: 64

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:12:13 PM

ExtremeOwnerIL

Posts: 197
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I'm not judgemental. Most men swat women on the ass.....nobody thinks anything of it. Slapping a woman in the face is considered abuse. I see men swat women at night clubs all the time. If a man were to strike a woman in the face at that same club, he would be taken out back for a gang beating. I've seen it happen many times. No real man strikes a woman in the face, just like no decent parent strikes a child in the face.......it's abuse.

If you are basing your opinion of S/m activities on what you've seen at NIGHT CLUBS, then you, in my opinion, do not understand BDSM and RACK.

The difference between abuse and non-abuse is Risk Awareness and Consensuality.

The men slapping women at night clubs is nonconsensual, and not done in a way that is risk aware or for the benefit of both.

When I slap my girl in the face, it is done in a risk aware manner (ie., I understand anatomy and how to slap a face to get an S/m response and not cause damange) AND she has consented to me slapping her.

The first is abuse. The second is not.

If you choose to judge me as an abuser, so be it. Join the ranks of Christian Women of America who believe that any BDSM is abuse. It bothers me not because ultimately, my girl and I define our space.

Edit: You say you are not judgemental - and from your last post, I believe you are basing your distaste for face slapping because you have had a horrid and nonconsensual experience with it. I sympathize with your bad experience, but we all are not your ex - and I think you should be forewarned that carrying issues like that - to where you will label consensual behavior between adults based on your trauma - may cause you problems in the future.

EO

< Message edited by ExtremeOwnerIL -- 10/26/2006 3:17:18 PM >

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 65

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:15:54 PM

Lorelei115

Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline

Well said, EO.

Also, there is a difference, even in a nightclub, between a gentle swat on the ass and a crack across the face. If some guy took a girl over his knees in a nightclub I'm sure he'd be called a "woman beater" as well. You can't use vanilla definitions of abuse for some things but not others.

_____________________________

A sucessful life is not measured by what we do
But by the realization
Of who we are.

(in reply to ExtremeOwnerIL)

Post #: 66

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:16:03 PM

charismagirrl

Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I'm not judgemental. Most men swat women on the ass.....nobody thinks anything of it. Slapping a woman in the face is considered abuse. I see men swat women at night clubs all the time. If a man were to strike a woman in the face at that same club, he would be taken out back for a gang beating. I've seen it happen many times. No real man strikes a woman in the face, just like no decent parent strikes a child in the face.......it's abuse.

you are sadly judgemental, dare i say disgustingly,insultingly so... In your above post you are comparing apples to oranges. Men swatting women on the ass in a nightclub is alot of times done without the girl's consent (trust me i've been on the receiving end of some of those swats and grabs in a crowded club) Also a man "swatting" a woman on the ass is much less intrusive than say a cane or a single tail or the like, but in the proper context and with consent it's as right as rain. And a man slapping a woman in the face out of the context of a BDSM relationship would be abusive, because, yet again, there'd be no consent.

Alot of WIIWD would be grounds for a gang beating if taken out of context by some unsuspecting vanilla which is why most of WIID is done in private or in private BDSM events. To try to compare WIIWD to what happens at large in the vanilla world and to try to make it conform to those rules is silly and trying to have your cake and eat it too.

"Sure i want to do what i do and don't want the vanillas to have anything to say about it, but i'll hold the other ppl in the lifestyle to vanilla rules when they engage in something i don't agree with." Is what you are basically saying

edited to add : i noticed that lorelei115 has the same idea that i did after i posted this (so do many others hmmm imagine tht)

< Message edited by charismagirrl -- 10/26/2006 3:19:00 PM >

_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 67

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:16:11 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Akasha, the fact that he uses face slapping as a correction and not for pleasure makes it abuse. I had a man slap me. I screamed over and over again........then I called him a woman beating bastard. I asked him if he thought it made him a man to hit a woman......then said come on let's see what a man you are. It was very traumatizing and I left him. Unfurtunately, I still have to associate with him because we have a child together. To this day, I hate and resent him. If men smacking women in the face isn't wrong, then why isn't it accepted like swatting on the ass? I've never seen a man get the crap beat out of him or be called a woman beater over a swat.

I think you may be bringing your own situation to bear here. Being consentially walloped is a bit different to the opposite.....whatever part of the old bod get's it.

agirl

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 68

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:18:34 PM

SlaveAkasha

Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Akasha, the fact that he uses face slapping as a correction and not for pleasure makes it abuse. I had a man slap me. I screamed over and over again........then I called him a woman beating bastard. I asked him if he thought it made him a man to hit a woman......then said come on let's see what a man you are. It was very traumatizing and I left him. Unfurtunately, I still have to associate with him because we have a child together. To this day, I hate and resent him. If men smacking women in the face isn't wrong, then why isn't it accepted like swatting on the ass? I've never seen a man get the crap beat out of him or be called a woman beater over a swat.

Don't you see though that because of your experience, it is abuse? I have not had that experience, so to me it isn't. I think we all have things that bring back bad things from our lives, that maybe we won't allow in the bdsm world. That doesn't mean though that anyone that does it, is an abuser.

These are parts of our relationship that we talked about before my collar. I agreed that punishment was fine, and it is. I don't plan on having it very often, but when I do something I shouldn't and this is the appropriate action, I expect to get it again. I had another Dom that would talk to me, and would have to slap me sometimes to keep my attention focused on him, because I didn't like to look him in the eye. That wasn't abuse either, it was a way to get my attention. This punishment is not for everything I do wrong, it is when I need my attention gotten right then, and when other means still didn't correct the behavior.

I can totally understand why to you it's abuse.. but you need to look at things from my point of view, and see that in that correction, I feel his love of me, and his desire to make me into a better person.

Just the same as a beating by a cane might be seen as abuse, or a paddle on the ass, abuse is in the eye of the beholder. Don't make assumptions about other peoples relationships, based on what you believe to be right, or wrong.

Akasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
www.goveg.com

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 69

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:18:41 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

I don't think "any bdsm" is abuse. I enjoy both domination and submission. Play slapping is one thing. When it comes to punishment, no real man smacks a woman in the face. They either spank them, or find a non physical way to punish them. If I was vanilla I would be against spanking too.

(in reply to ExtremeOwnerIL)

Post #: 70

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:20:32 PM

Lorelei115

Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline

Ok... what about a woman slapping a man in the face for punishment? Would you be against that as well?

_____________________________

A sucessful life is not measured by what we do
But by the realization
Of who we are.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 71

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:25:21 PM

untamedshysub

Posts: 220
Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline

if a man other than someone I am in a relationship swats my backside he is going to walk away with blue balls turn quickly grab twist and pull down hard he wont do it again learned that in college.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 72

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:27:16 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

omg the visual i just got from that!

Had i ever even attempted to slap my last Master, ~shudders~... i would probably be digging up daisies right now.

Face slapping for me is a definite attention-getter... gets me hot/wet... and as someone else said, stops me in my tracks and makes me re-think what i had done just prior to the face slap.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to Lorelei115)

Post #: 73

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:31:22 PM

Lorelei115

Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline

*Laugh* sorry to give you bad visuals. Just trying to get to the root of the matter, as she says "no real man" slaps a woman as punishment, due to the size/strength difference. So is it OK when its the weaker/smaller partner who does the slapping?

Edited to add: I don't slap my male subs in the face, but only because it hurts my hand, dangit!

< Message edited by Lorelei115 -- 10/26/2006 3:32:59 PM >

_____________________________

A sucessful life is not measured by what we do
But by the realization
Of who we are.

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 74

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:33:25 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

A woman smacking a man in the face wouldn't be abusive like a man smacking a woman in the face. Most men are bigger and stronger than women, just like parents are bigger and stronger than children.......that's why I used the comparison.

(in reply to Lorelei115)

Post #: 75

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:36:42 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

is that why you are saying face slapping is abuse? Because men are bigger and stronger? If so, then according to your definition and reasoning many parts of M/s or BDSM would be to you, abusive. Maybe i have misunderstood.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 76

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:40:16 PM

SlaveAkasha

Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

A woman smacking a man in the face wouldn't be abusive like a man smacking a woman in the face. Most men are bigger and stronger than women, just like parents are bigger and stronger than children.......that's why I used the comparison.

So, I could slap a man and it wouldn't be abuse?? That doesn't make any sense. I think I can pack a pretty good whallop myself if I want, so if I hit a man in the face it would be no different. It's not abuse, if both people consent to it. I suppose you think that there is no such thing as men being abused by women? I happen to know a man that is very strong, but he is physically abused by his wife. His sufferning at the hands of her, is no less wrong than the abuse you suffered at the hands of yours.

It's not the act, it's the relationship (consentual) of the two involved

Akasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
www.goveg.com

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 77

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:48:19 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

Spanking as punishment is not abuse regardless of the difference in size. The ass is a safe place for a man to punish without risking real injury. I never said I was against many parts of bdsm when they're being used for sensual play. I'm talking physical (meant to be painful) punishment.

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 78

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:48:35 PM

ExtremeOwnerIL

Posts: 197
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline

I believe that defiantbadgirl's opinion is deeply ingrained into her, and that no amount of reasonable discussion, based on RACK practices, is going to matter. Unfortunately, I believe any further debate is just feeding the troll, in this case.

defiantbadgirl, I feel bad for you. You've been defined by what appears to be an abusive act, and that has caused you great harm. I think, however, if you are to continue in this lifestyle, you are going to find yourself extremely challenged in your viewpoints. I feel for you and wish you well, but I would ask that you cease hijacking this thread over your viewpoints. Rather, I suggest you start a new thread regarding face slapping and abuse.

Regards,
EO

(in reply to SlaveAkasha)

Post #: 79

RE: Some thoughts on punishment - 10/26/2006 3:50:00 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Using fast reply here.

Now first, let me state that if ANY man EVER smacked me in the face he should, if he has a brain, be fearing for his life. If I ever saw or knew of a man doing this to a woman, outside of BDSM, I would feel the same way. It is abuse, IN THAT CONTEXT!

However, the key to this whole thing is that we all go into BDSM relationships with a clear understanding (hopefully) based upon alot of communication, of what is acceptable to each of us as individuals. IF, the two individuals have agreed that face slapping by either a male or female is an acceptable part of their arrangement then it is NOT abuse. It was agree upon. In my opinion if, at any time during the relationship, that is renegociated and changes, it should be honoured.

From what I have read, the two different scenarios are being lumped into one and being called abuse. As others have stated, ALOT of WIIWD could be considered abuse of some form taken out of the context of BDSM/WIIWD.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SlaveAkasha)

Post #: 80

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