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Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 12:59:23 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		How do you help your sub deal with depression? My sub is going through a depressed stage for about 2 months now. He has had financial problems for many years now and even though people have tried to help him, he stubbornly refuses to listen to anyone. I have gotten him to cut back on expenditures and showed him that by taking his lunch rather then buying everyday he can save a lot of money there.  That was a major change for him, as no one ever told him how to budget his money previously. He was a Master before he became my sub so he did what he wanted with his money, which he managed very poorly. 

 I had him sending me money every week that I was putting into a savings account for him. He missed a week and I asked him if everything was all right, because he was very good about giving it to me. He said he could not give me anything for a few weeks. I asked him why not? He said just do not have it. I am a bit baffled by this because he clears $1700.00 every two weeks and lives with his parents for now. He has no car payment or anything like that. I know he helps his parents out by paying rent and such and I know he pays alimony to his ex-slave, but where the rest goes he cannot seem to account for it.  

Therefore, after we discussed it, he was getting angry at my questions and it seemed I was getting nowhere. I told him to just stop sending me money, that he could handle his own finances from now on. I admit I have little patience and was getting frustrated with the whole thing. I tried to help him and all he did was get pissed off by it. He says it embarrasses him for me to know how poorly he has managed things. He says that I should keep taking the money he sends, as it is the only savings he has. I said fine if you want to give it to me great, if not that is your choice. 

 I haven’t’ seen him for almost a month now because he has been so strapped for cash and it really bothers him if I pay for everything. So he has been very depressed and when I talk to him on the phone, he does not say very much. He seems to be loosening interest in everything. He says it kills him that he cannot see me because of his problems and he is afraid his financial woes will end up killing our relationship. I told him I could live with the financial situation as long as he is doing something to correct it.

I told him that he needs to get out and exercise instead of staying in his room all the time. He keeps saying he will but has yet to do so. He said he was thinking of taking up hunting again and with him being depressed, that frankly has me worried. He is also depressed because his Mother was diagnosed with cancer and she is now undergoing chemo for it. But the outlook for her is not good at all. He doesn't sleep at night, partially due to his Father who suffers from senile dementia and he wakes my sub up often in the night.

  Any suggestions?  

~Lashra    

< Message edited by Lashra -- 10/26/2006 1:00:57 PM >

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”





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RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 1:26:43 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

How do you help your sub deal with depression?


There are various things that can help deal with depression, but it doesn't sound as if your sub is "depressed" per se.  It sounds as if he is completely, utterly blitzed by emotionally stressful situations, and he is unable to cope with them without breaking down.

quote:

He is also depressed because his Mother was diagnosed with cancer and she is now undergoing chemo for it. But the outlook for her is not good at all. He doesn't sleep at night, partially due to his Father who suffers from senile dementia and he wakes my sub up often in the night.   


Just FYI--any sane human being could suffer a breakdown under these conditions.  A father with senile dementia is not some kind of mild annoyance--it's devastating.  A mother with cancer is not something you just casually shrug off either, esecially if she's heading into chemo--those treatments can be painful, disfiguring, and debilitating, and if his Mom is out of commission, exactly who will be the primary caregiver to his Dad?

Combine that with financial hardship of any kind and interrupted sleep patterns, and I can easily see just about anyone going into a tailspin.

If it was me, I would get another caregiver for his parents on the weekend--yes, even if it costs money--and force him to spend at least 24-36 hours with you.  To sleep in peace, if nothing else, although BDSM play and deep quality aftercare can be extremely cathartic during stressful times of life.  The important thing is to give him a few hours a week where nothing is his problem.

Medication to stabilize mood is also a possibility, although I would advise against Prozac.  That particular anti-depressant really seems to be best used only by chemical depressives...people who actually have a REASON to be upset or down-hearted have a statistical tendency to make more suicide attempts when they take it.

--M

(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 1:38:43 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		As crappy as it is for those of us who want to help:

You cannot help anyone who will not help themselves.
You cannot help anyone who does not want you help.
You cannot force anyone to do anything they do not want to do, good for them or not.

You are not responsible for his mental health whether he's your submissive or not. You can provide an encouraging atmosphere, but in the end, it's his responsibility. However, one of the things my sub did for me when I was in a terrible place (and ended up in out-patient therapy) was to find all the phone numbers I needed, especially my Empoyees Assistance Program. If you know where he works, call the HR department and ask for the info. You do not have to reveal who you are or who he is.

Remember, you are allowed to continue to love him, but to realize that his behavior is toxic for you.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 1:54:15 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		A lot of people who think they know it all....believe they can diagnose TRUE depression.


It may be something neurochemical.


I'd recommend he go get checked if this has been going on for two months.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 2:25:59 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Some depression is more emotional than physical. In those cases therapy will help him.

You are not his therapist and even if you are a trained therapist you wouldn't be treating someone you were involved with. You can insist he go get ongoing therapy or you end the relationship.

Some depression is a chemical issue and in that case he'll need medication to help things. That also requires seeing a therapist but in that case a medically trained doctor who can not just listen but also determine what chemical imbalances may be present and prescribe medications.

The short of it is, Lashra, you aren't a therapist but you can insist he start getting help.

It is something I've had to do myself with a few submissives -- they may have been pissed in the beginning but all of them later came to me and thanked me for insisting they get help. And if they didn't, they weren't a benefit for me to keep around. I have enough issues in my life without dealing with another person's emotional or physical problems when they refuse to start working on it themselves.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 2:56:45 PM   
Samwhiplash


Posts: 191
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		What a tricky situation Lashra.

I 100% agree with what MasterFireMaam said as I have a huge amount of experience in trying to enforce help on someone in a very badly depressed state (which went on for a number of years) and I fully understand how totally frustrating it can be for the person who so badly wants to help in whatever way possible but cant because the person is not in the zone of wanting help as yet.

I can thoroughly recommend counselling. Not because he may be depressed - but because if he is going thro a difficult period it can really help (on many levels... his money situation may be a symptom of his headstate etc).

(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 3:18:02 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		This doesn't just sound like depression.  It sounds more like denial.  And he's not willing to help himself -- and therefore, he's going to resent any attempts on anyone else's part to intervene.

Lay down a series of things he must do to gain your favor.  The requirements might include financial counseling as well as some psychotherapy for his issues.  He'll do it when he's ready, if he's ready.

I went through this with a slave who was my fiancee.  While he eventually got himself back in order, it was the end of the relationship.  As MFM said, the environment was hella toxic and finally, it was time to part ways.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 8:37:19 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		He's giving up, he's been severely depressed for over two weeks, he has stopped doing things pleasurable - spells depression to me. Ask him for the phone number of his doctor, call and make an appointment for him as he doesn't have the energy to do so. Ask if you can speak to the doctor to give him some info about the patient, the doctor of course will not tell you anything due to privacy laws.

However most antidepressants will cause sexual difficulties. Treatable with Viagra but he needs to know about it because otherwise he may feel worse about this.

He needs therapy as well but medical treatment first. It's a lot easier to teach new coping skills when you aren't severely depressed. I suggest Cognitive Behavior therapy, ask his doctor's office for a referral and make the appointment for him starting about a week after he starts the meds.

(in reply to MisPandora)
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RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 8:42:21 PM   
michaelGA2


Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		being someone who's lived with depression all my life, i can say from experience, therapy is not always affective, as well as the meds. hope you find a solution that works for you... it doesn't for me.

_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 9:57:34 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

As crappy as it is for those of us who want to help:

You cannot help anyone who will not help themselves.
You cannot help anyone who does not want you help.
You cannot force anyone to do anything they do not want to do, good for them or not.

You are not responsible for his mental health whether he's your submissive or not. You can provide an encouraging atmosphere, but in the end, it's his responsibility. However, one of the things my sub did for me when I was in a terrible place (and ended up in out-patient therapy) was to find all the phone numbers I needed, especially my Empoyees Assistance Program. If you know where he works, call the HR department and ask for the info. You do not have to reveal who you are or who he is.

Remember, you are allowed to continue to love him, but to realize that his behavior is toxic for you.

Master Fire



Right on target! ...

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 10:47:53 PM   
TheShadows


Posts: 403
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline 		Master Fire is right, yet again, I believe.  You can't take responsibility for someone else's feelings.  I don't think his being a Master before has much to do with the fact that, from what I've gathered, he has ZERO coping skills, plus going through some depression.

If it were me, I'd give him all the encouragement I could until such time as he got help, or until I couldn't take it anymore and had to end the relationship.

Harsh as it sounds, I feel like, sometimes, you've just got to let people sink or swim.

Best of Luck,

MrsShadows

< Message edited by TheShadows -- 10/26/2006 10:48:47 PM >

_____________________________

"The reason the mainstream is thought of as a stream is because of it's shallowness." - George Carlin

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most..." - Ozzy Osbourne

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/26/2006 11:06:25 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

How do you help your sub deal with depression? My sub is going through a depressed stage for about 2 months now. He has had financial problems for many years now and even though people have tried to help him, he stubbornly refuses to listen to anyone. I have gotten him to cut back on expenditures and showed him that by taking his lunch rather then buying everyday he can save a lot of money there.  That was a major change for him, as no one ever told him how to budget his money previously. He was a Master before he became my sub so he did what he wanted with his money, which he managed very poorly. 


It sounds as though this guy has gone from being ''Lashara's slave'' to that of a ''debt slave'' I'm truly sorry for you. It very well could be the primary cause of his depression.

The quicker he discharges / rids himself of this debt, the quicker he's on the path to well being. I'd seek counsel {legal} immediately and find a way to discharge or negotiate the debt down as low as possible; then pay it off.

If he's stubborn and won't attempt to help himself.....he needs to rot in his own misery until it becomes so utterly painful that he's forced to do something about it.

Lots of men are easily seduced by the whole Jones mentality / Dark side of status quo - And they eventually pay for it in more ways than one {Pun intended}



Best wishes


 - R



_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 5:13:06 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for all your replies. I do realize he is going through a very difficult time and I do try to give him encouragement to do things that will help him in the long run. But as the saying goes you can lead the horse to water but you cannot make it drink. I have suggested therapy as I believe he needs to work on his coping skills and it may help with his anxiety/depression. I've suggested seeing a credit counselor for his debt problem and I've suggested a full phyiscal exam by his doctor he will not go for any of these.

I have suggested that he get his siblings to help with his parents, but as he is the oldest male(they are old fashioned), they see him as the one responsible for taking care of Mom and Dad. He simply cannot handle it all alone. He did finally get a sister to come take his Mom to her doctor visits because he was missing too much time from work.

I think what I need to do is pull in my feelings for him and see what happens. I cannot allow his problems to become my problems, I've got enough of my own. I'll try to guide and offer advice as best I can but when it comes down to it the only person that can really change his life is him. I'll give him comfort with our play which he loves it makes him feel much better(and me) and I'll suggest to him telling one of his siblings to stay with his parents one/two nights a week so he can come stay with me and get some sleep. Sleep deprivation itself is enough to make someone feel awful.

Thanks,
~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 9:37:45 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I wrote to you on the other side, Lashra.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 10:43:44 AM   
DiannaVesta


Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

As crappy as it is for those of us who want to help:

You cannot help anyone who will not help themselves.
You cannot help anyone who does not want you help.
You cannot force anyone to do anything they do not want to do, good for them or not.

You are not responsible for his mental health whether he's your submissive or not. You can provide an encouraging atmosphere, but in the end, it's his responsibility. However, one of the things my sub did for me when I was in a terrible place (and ended up in out-patient therapy) was to find all the phone numbers I needed, especially my Empoyees Assistance Program. If you know where he works, call the HR department and ask for the info. You do not have to reveal who you are or who he is.

Remember, you are allowed to continue to love him, but to realize that his behavior is toxic for you.

Master Fire



I agree with this 150%.




_____________________________



(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 10:46:56 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		By getting angry at your questions points to other things to me. It gives me feelings he is hiding something other then depression.

I'd be looking at drug or alcohol addiction personnaly




(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 1:04:35 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I also thought about that as he was a heavy coke user about 7 years ago and he was into the booze as well. He swears he is clean and would never get back into drugs or alcohol. If I find out that he is, I will drop him cold. I don't deal with people with drug or alcohol problems and I was very adamant about that when we started seeing each other.

My gut feeling is that he just cannot manage money nor say no to people. I know he is constantly loaning his one sister money all the time. I told him don't send yourself to the poor house to help out your sister all the time. She is a grown adult with a job, let her find a way to get a hold of money without using you as a ATM. I believe he is also footing all the bills for his elderly parents. Which helping out is great, but paying for everything is wrong. He has seven siblings why they cannot help out I don't understand.
But then again he is the type who will not ask for help. He has told me often that his Mother has a saying  "Don't let anyone know more about you, then you do yourself." I think this  conditioning is a big part of his problem.

I am going to be seeing him this weekend and I'm going to be keeping a close eye on him from now on. I am going to tell him to get his ass to the doctor for a complete checkup and to tell him about this depression problem. Hopefully that will get the ball rolling towards a more positive direction.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 1:24:16 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Unfortnately nothing is in my mail box. Maybe the message didnt go through? CM is wierd like that sometimes.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 2:02:19 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I also thought about that as he was a heavy coke user about 7 years ago and he was into the booze as well. He swears he is clean and would never get back into drugs or alcohol. If I find out that he is, I will drop him cold. I don't deal with people with drug or alcohol problems and I was very adamant about that when we started seeing each other.

My gut feeling is that he just cannot manage money nor say no to people. I know he is constantly loaning his one sister money all the time. I told him don't send yourself to the poor house to help out your sister all the time. She is a grown adult with a job, let her find a way to get a hold of money without using you as a ATM. I believe he is also footing all the bills for his elderly parents. Which helping out is great, but paying for everything is wrong. He has seven siblings why they cannot help out I don't understand.
But then again he is the type who will not ask for help. He has told me often that his Mother has a saying "Don't let anyone know more about you, then you do yourself." I think this conditioning is a big part of his problem.

I am going to be seeing him this weekend and I'm going to be keeping a close eye on him from now on. I am going to tell him to get his ass to the doctor for a complete checkup and to tell him about this depression problem. Hopefully that will get the ball rolling towards a more positive direction.

~Lashra



Wow.

You must really love this man because frankly I would have kicked him to the curb long ago.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Severe Depression In Subs - 10/27/2006 2:33:57 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Wow.

You must really love this man because frankly I would have kicked him to the curb long ago.


Yes, that was my sense from reading the first post.  There was great warmth and concern there, and a lot of understanding extended.  I can definitely see why the fear of losing this relationship is so strong in him--this woman is probably by far the best thing in his (very difficult) life. 

--M




(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 20
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