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Inner Contridiction - 10/27/2006 8:05:39 PM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
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I made another post a few weeks ago about "Chickening Out"....I had come to conclusion that one of the reason I "chicken out"...is due to the inner contradiction I feel between good/bad girl.....I struggle inside with this often since I have been discovering myself as a submissive.....Tonight I spoke with a very insightful friend....I never realized that I grew up with this contradiction....my Grandma was all about "good girl"...cross you legs, sit up straight, etc etc....while my mother was a quite the opposite, the whole hippy free love thing..... I was wondering if other submissives  had grown up this way....and what did you do to understand this part of you....and to overcome it..... Any and all insight...advice...thoughts are appreciated..... 
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RE: Inner Contridiction - 10/27/2006 8:17:51 PM   
behindmirrors


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Yes, I grew up with some of this, too. Though I was pretty much drilled in the whole "good girl" thing by everyone, I rebelled.

How I got over it? I realized that what was good was what I (and my Dom) decided was good- and the rest of the crap that people say could fall by the wayside. No one's opinion but the ones whose opinion you choose to let matter, if that makes any sense.

behindmirrors.

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RE: Inner Contridiction - 10/27/2006 8:33:09 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
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The good girl thing is something that can actually work for you in WIITWD.  There can be, for some women, a mental process of "gee mom it wasn't my fault he tied me up and did it, I couldn't help it." Bondage can be terribly freeing that way.  Then there is doing as you are told, taking care of your partner, and being agreeable and ladylike.  All are things good girls do. 

Of course good girls aren't supposed to be kinky but you always have that bondage thing to fall back on to point the finger of guilt away from you.

Lastly, no one else is living your life.  If you want to live it doing what you want instead of what you think someone else expects then make that choice.  Its no one else's to make.

(in reply to behindmirrors)
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RE: Inner Contridiction - 10/27/2006 9:14:40 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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My mom was a contradiction wrapped up in one person

I do not know, but i had to cross my legs, be a good little girl.

I was also from an era that freed me to climb trees and play ball, turn around and play dolls the next minute.

I have had the good girl bad girl... Madonna whore complex... I refused to buy into it after 30 and would not date men who did either... here is a  Walt Whitman poem that says I feel about my sexuality .. To the mods, it is not copyrighted anymore, public domain





WOMAN waits for me—she contains all, nothing is lacking,
 Yet all were lacking, if sex were lacking, or if the moisture of the right man were lacking.
 Sex contains all,
 Bodies, Souls, meanings, proofs, purities, delicacies, results, promulgations,
 Songs, commands, health, pride, the maternal mystery, the seminal milk;
All hopes, benefactions, bestowals,
 All the passions, loves, beauties, delights of the earth,
 All the governments, judges, gods, follow’d persons of the earth,
 These are contain’d in sex, as parts of itself, and justifications of itself.
 Without shame the man I like knows and avows the deliciousness of his sex,
Without shame the woman I like knows and avows hers.
 Now I will dismiss myself from impassive women,
 I will go stay with her who waits for me, and with those women that are warm-blooded and sufficient for me;
 I see that they understand me, and do not deny me;
 I see that they are worthy of me—I will be the robust husband of those women.
They are not one jot less than I am,
 They are tann’d in the face by shining suns and blowing winds,
Their flesh has the old divine suppleness and strength,
 They know how to swim, row, ride, wrestle, shoot, run, strike, retreat, advance, resist, defend themselves,
 They are ultimate in their own right—they are calm, clear, well-possess’d of themselves.
I draw you close to me, you women!
 I cannot let you go, I would do you good,
 I am for you, and you are for me, not only for our own sake, but for others’ sakes;
 Envelop’d in you sleep greater heroes and bards,
 They refuse to awake at the touch of any man but me.
It is I, you women—I make my way,
 I am stern, acrid, large, undissuadable—but I love you,
 I do not hurt you any more than is necessary for you,
 I pour the stuff to start sons and daughters fit for These States—I press with slow rude muscle,
 I brace myself effectually—I listen to no entreaties,
I dare not withdraw till I deposit what has so long accumulated within me.
 Through you I drain the pent-up rivers of myself,
 In you I wrap a thousand onward years,
 On you I graft the grafts of the best-beloved of me and America,
The drops I distil upon you shall grow fierce and athletic girls, new artists, musicians, and singers,
The babes I beget upon you are to beget babes in their turn,
 I shall demand perfect men and women out of my love-spendings,
 I shall expect them to interpenetrate with others, as I and you interpenetrate now,
 I shall count on the fruits of the gushing showers of them, as I count on the fruits of the gushing showers I give now,
 I shall look for loving crops from the birth, life, death, immortality, I plant so lovingly now.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/27/2006 9:34:34 PM >


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to eruditegirl1)
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RE: Inner Contridiction - 10/27/2006 11:05:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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It's very hard to break out of all the concepts we are fed about who we SHOULD be and become WHO WE ARE.  And don't expect "the scene" to be of any help to you- most of the people in the scene are just as eager to hold up ideas of who you "should" be as much as your mother was and will denounce you even harsher if you do not live to their standards.

Being who we are is one of the hardest things to do...but it's really the only thing that matters and will take you to your ultimate fulfillment.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 7:21:56 AM   
sintralgasub


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Joined: 8/24/2006
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This is something I have struggled with for most of my life.  I was raised in a Christian home for which I am very thankful and hold dear the values instilled in me.  I am a good girl.
 
Something beyond my control happened to me at a young age, and I was told "Good girls don't do that, and if you tell, I will tell everyone what you did".  Being from a small town, this had a major impact on me, everything I felt about myself was changed from that point on.  It was hard to reconcile what I had thought I was to what I was being told I was not.
 
As I have aged and become more comfortable in my skin (body image) I have also become more comfortable with the inner contradictions I struggled with.  I have to thank my Dom for helping me come to terms with and smooth out these conflicting emotions.  Our many discussions have made me realize that being a good PERSON is totally separate from being kinky, or being a submissive person.  He loves the fact that I can be professional and conservative on the outside, and His kinky girl behind closed doors.  I've actually come to love this about myself.  I love that He can be my Dom in any situation, subtly in public and not subtle at all behind closed doors.  I don't think of Him any differently in varying situations, I respect His ability to know when to display certain parts of His personality.  He is comfortable with who He is, and that has been a wonderful example for me.
 
I sometimes still struggle with guilt, but that is getting easier as my view of myself changes.  I do still worry about how I am going to deal with this in my hereafter... but that is another topic.
 
Also, have you defined what YOUR definition of a good girl is?  It seems to me you are functioning on other people's ideas, or what you perceive to be others ideas of what a good person is.  Maybe some reflection on your definition will help you reconcile some of your conflict.
 
 

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 9:02:43 AM   
toservez


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Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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I think the contradiction preached not only by many parents but also society to what we feel and actually are is quite common. Certainly the older we get the more comfortable we get with being ourselves and not caring about what other people think. Unfortunately it is a learning process that most of us go through in our lives. We have to learn it is not good or bad but different. I also strongly feel that no matter how wise and self confident we are these type of thoughts can always be with us on some level.

While my Mom lead by example and taught the "good" girl manners to me she also taught me to be true to myself which I am very grateful for. I think this part and then being involved with older people who had already confronted this issue and seeing them happy and respected helped me quite a bit get over my concerns in this area.

In the end though it is a general life lesson. Most if not all would agree, don't let what others think is right and do what makes you happy as long as no one else gets hurt.



_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 2:48:29 PM   
littleone35


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I have always been what is termed a good girl.  Finally i got tired of being a "good girl " and decided to explore it does not make me a bad girl just a more opened minded good  girl.  As Master puts it HIS good girl .

Matt's littleone

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 4:10:26 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
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I had a little of the Puritan influence and I've never 'played' or done sex casually.  It took me a lot longer to find someone that I imagine it would have if I'd been a little less uptight, but I don't mind.  But, FOR ME (and what I'm about to say sounds really judgmental, is really judgmental, but I've only applied this code of standard to myself.  I'm sorry if I offend anyone for sounding moralistic or uptight--I don't think this stuff intellectually, but I do feel this stuff, especially in regards to my own behavior), sex happens with love and trust in a committed relationship.  I never really bought the no sex before marriage thing, but I don't fool around, and right now, I'm pretty sure my dom wouldn't force me to have sex with anyone else.  Even using the word 'slut' was incredibly hard for me, because I think of it not was someone who likes sex or is there for a single person's pleasure, but a woman (yeah, I'm a feminist, but the truth is that in my world view, whether I agree with it or not, the Puritan said a slut was always female) who has so little respect for herself that she sleeps around to try and prove herself (and I have a whole string of nasty, judgmental things I'd think).  It is totally sexist (I have a couple of male friends whose list of partners has made it in the 4 digits and I really don't think I would ever do that, but I don't have the same venom that I think I would have if I had a female friend who'd slept with several thousand men.  The fact that I don't have any female friends in the three digits (that I know of) is probably another sign of that internalized sexism.

But, for me the bigger contradiction was the very feminism I just did such a good job of undercutting-- going out and conquering the world by day and kneeling naked at his feet by night.  I overthink (and intellectualize and analyze and overthink) and it took a while to realize that what feels right is right.  The fact that this is who I am in the dark doesn't negate what I do during the day.  But it has been rough getting here, and I'm sure I still have a little more to go. 

And, I couldn't have gotten here if I hadn't met the right man.  He has listened to my dreams and totally supported them; he fundamentally respects them and all my idealism is a good thing with him.  That makes such a huge difference.  I spent years (and years, and years) ducking a head out and running back because I wasn't willing to have casual or to compromise on some core things.  And I found much more than I ever thought I could.

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RE: Inner Contridiction - 10/28/2006 7:20:56 PM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
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From: Nevada
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Very nice reading...thank you for posting it....

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 7:31:30 PM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sintralgasub

Also, have you defined what YOUR definition of a good girl is?  It seems to me you are functioning on other people's ideas, or what you perceive to be others ideas of what a good person is.  Maybe some reflection on your definition will help you reconcile some of your conflict.
 
 


Very good suggestion....
I have started writing down some thoughts on what I percieve a "good girl" to be....at first I thought I had to choose between the two...good or bad...but the more I write...the more I realize....it's balancing the two...they are both part of me...and I am actually not comfortable with calling it "bad" any longer...cause it's not bad...it just another part of me....and it's a good thing in itself....

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 8:12:48 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
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From: Sacramento
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If your motivations are coming from a good place, then you can only be a good girl!

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 8:20:37 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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The idea of being a "good girl" or a "bad girl" both center around the idea that there is a clear cut line between good and bad. What one person believes is good might not foat for someone else.  When I ask Angel if he's beena good boy, he knows precicely what I am refering to becasue he was given my definition of a good boy.
For some,the "bad girl" is all image.  I am considered a "bad girl" which I think is funny becasue I wear a motorcycle jacket, I am a Dominant and I have a no nonsense take no shit attitude.  The part they forget is that I also volunteer for childrens hospitals, do charity work for the homeless and have taught abused women self defense so that they can reclaim their lives and not be so scared anymore.

The inner conflict is because your life has been spent having people tell you "this is good, you must be this" or "this is bad you must not be this"... once you have your own definition, that conflict wil be gone.  You'l be surprised exactly how many of the "bad" things arent os terrible, and how many of the "good" things are laughable nowadays.

Good luck

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: Inner Contradiction - 10/28/2006 8:45:59 PM   
eruditegirl1


Posts: 175
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

The inner conflict is because your life has been spent having people tell you "this is good, you must be this" or "this is bad you must not be this"... once you have your own definition, that conflict wil be gone.  You'l be surprised exactly how many of the "bad" things arent os terrible, and how many of the "good" things are laughable nowadays.

Good luck

DV



I am actually starting to see this....between the wonderful posts and 2 awesome men in my life....I am actually really starting to understand the inner contradiction and make peace with it...
Thank you Diurnal and all who posted their thoughts so far

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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