RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax?

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sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 2:41:51 PM)
One of the best NEW movies on the history of government sponsored terror. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terror+storm

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 3:09:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I will say that the situations are being 'managed' by the administration, but do not accuse them of conspiracy, there isn't brains enough amongst the current administration to poor piss out of a boot. Ron Thats what i want to believe too... and it seems that as soon as i turn around to walk away with my faith renewed there always seems to be something that throws another wrench into my positive thinking... http://newsmine.org/archive/9-11/norad-faa-response/cheney-stand-down-order.txt dont like the pictures being drawn i have to admit...

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 3:36:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I will say that the situations are being 'managed' by the administration, but do not accuse them of conspiracy, there isn't brains enough amongst the current administration to poor piss out of a boot. If they are in charge, they must be both smarter and more ruthless than anybody else. There is no question that in many ways those in charge are stupid. There is also no question that they are smart enough to pretend to be stupid. Smart, stupid, ruthless, pretense, is also how I would describe 9/11. 1 + 1 = ? quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail if the pylons were blown in the way one guy said they were in the sub basement, it would have been an early game of tetris, manhattan is founded on bedrock. The building would have shivvered perhaps. but not toppled in that type of scenario. If you had watched the video, you would have heard one witness testify that the floor did shiver. This basement explosion was a preparatory explosion, aimed to weaken the core before the building was collapsed. quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Regarding the detonations, of course there were large gas lines throughout the building as well as some heavy electrical distribution boxes, when these things blow they are at least to be described as incendiary. A fly collides with the top of a mountain and in the basement "large gas lines as well as some heavy electrical distribution boxes" spontaneously burst into flames... Duh. Do you have sufficient money to buy the Eiffel tower?

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 4:05:43 PM)
This supposes that I believe or should belive that the explosion started in the basement, resulting in the collapse of the building, I note with some interest that there is not a picture of the fly (several fucking tons of metal and basically a large aluminum tube strapped to an even larger gas tank) hitting the building side. Save your learned observations for those casting about, and perhaps I shall sell you some tinker-toys by and by. It may interest some of you to know that natural gas is heavier than the air about you............and the equipment rooms were strewn throught the central core and culminated in the basement, has anyone here ever seen a substation transformer blow up? There is tons of electrical switchgear in those buildings, and it ain't that smart. I have. It seems pretty obvious that should be answered in the negative. How many millions of cubic feet of natural gas were distributed throughout one of those buildings, do you think that natural gas possesses some property that says, oh, the fire was not aimed at me so I am going to lay around and chill? From the other side of the building where the plane hit, it is easy to see how the roof caved and subsumed structures beneath it........match it with the other view and it seems like a whole different can of corn. Having some knowledge of building practices and the nasty shit that goes in them and on them, a great deal of the black smoke is probably from the coverings on the millions of phone cables in that building (there is a great deal of commerce conducted by phones ). Have you ever seen a central office burn? I have? Do you know how deadly that is? Do you know how black that type of smoke is? Now, as a guesstimate, if we were to remove just the plastics from that building and stack it on the footprint of the building, just how high would that pile go? Any old nynex guys here who know how many T3s were in one of those buildings? They must have had at least a large DMS100 in there. Ron

Sinergy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 4:10:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve Hey Real one..... None of the debunkers here has even touched the fact that Thermate was found on the steel columns at the WTC site. Rather amusing. Hello A/all A thermite reaction (a type of aluminothermic reaction) is one in which aluminium metal is oxidized by an oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide. (The name thermite is also used to refer to a mixture of two such chemicals.) The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental metal and a great deal of heat. The reactants are commonly powdered and mixed with a binder (such as sulfur) to keep the material solid and prevent separation. So theoretically, a building with steel girders (iron) and aluminum cable racks and aluminum wall seperations, when combined with heat, from, for example, a jet airline filled with fuel running into it at 600 miles an hour, could produce thermate to be found on the walls of the World Trade Center. Next! Sinergy

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:03:35 PM)
That is a clever and good argument, Sinergy. However, it does not satisfy me. (That is not a complete dismissal: I will keep your idea in mind.) The evidence that the core and every floor was rigged with explosives in the weeks before the attacks in my eyes is convincing. Two of the planes according to the archives never took off and therefore never existed; nor was there any record of their substantial course deviations. The course deviations of the two planes that did exist were afterwards removed from the archives to hide the discrepancy with the two planes that did not exist. There is no credible evidence at all that the highjackers ever existed. Nor is there any credible evidence that highjackers, crew nor any of the other passengers were aboard those planes. Nor is there any credible evidence that links those events to Al Quaeda. There is evidence, though, that Al Quaeda was a CIA- & Bush front. There is evidence that shows that Bush and his minions had motive, opportunity and means. Go read Arthur Conan Doyle... I am still awaiting your answers to my questions, Sinergy: who were those two flight attendants, what is the name of that family, who among the airport crew witnessed that flight attendant entering Flight 175?

Sinergy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:22:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule I am still awaiting your answers to my questions, Sinergy: who were those two flight attendants, what is the name of that family, who among the airport crew witnessed that flight attendant entering Flight 175? On the morning of September 11th, 2001, my girlfriend and I woke up and while I made coffee for us I turned on the news. We were captivated by the imagery replayed over and over on every news channel we turned to. My girlfriend was horrified. She was not the sort to cry, but I could see in her body language, etc., that she was devastated. She called the Crew Planning at her airline and heard the story disseminated to them, not the story which ended up making it on the news. As the story unfolded she became more devastated, as if somebody had reached in and slimed her soul with goo (ala Ghostbusters) She had to live with the reality that she could go to work and deranged zealots could overpower her and slit her throat from ear to ear with box cutters as she went to work every day. I will never forget the look on her face that day and the days which followed. I will never forget the phone calls she made to friends and loved ones to try to find out who was involved in the tragedy. I will never forget the racking sobs I had to hold and console as I held her in my arms. I knew it was traumatic, but it was not a trauma that I could really understand. I may have the story wrong. It might be that a flight attendant friend of hers was married to somebody who worked and died in the World Trade Center that day. Unlike a cretin psychiatrist from Eastern Canada, I have no interest in "outing" myself on an internet message board. Out of respect for the pain experienced by a woman I was in a relationship for a long time, I am not going to give you her contact information either. I find it surprising that you honestly believe a flight never took off from any airport, was not serviced by any ground crew, was not piloted and run by any flight crew, and flew into the World Trade Center as was captured on news video cameras. But I am done here. You win. The flight took off from some unnamed airport somewhere and was piloted by remote control by Monkeyboy and his host of 12390847 co-conspirators that nobody has ever heard about. I would be happy to send you an internet merit badge of proof that you win. I apologize if I seem a little bent out of shape. Nothing emotionally destroys me more than the look of pain and loss on somebody I deeply care for, especially when it is a situation where I can do nothing but be there for her. To you, the tragedy was something you got to see on TV and peruse internet boards drumming up conspiracy theories for lack of a more productive hobby, but I was with somebody who was actually affected by the tragedy. Peace out. Sinergy

sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:30:42 PM)
All I can say is WHO is attacking WHO here for their opinions.??????? We don't attack people who buy the OFFICIAL 9-11 story and call them names or finger them asthis or that. We give them the courtesy of respecting what THEY believe in. They should do the same for us who DON'T buy the government's story instead of "you tin foil hat wearer...you are nuts" et al. [:'(]

Sinergy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:37:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve All I can say is WHO is attacking WHO here for their opinions.??????? We don't attack people who buy the OFFICIAL 9-11 story and call them names or finger them asthis or that. We give them the courtesy of respecting what THEY believe in. They should do the same for us who DON'T by the government's story instead of "you tin foil hat wearer...you are nuts" et al. [:'(] Lovely rant. Wonderful use of INnApROpriaTE CapiTALiZaTions. I am happy you have something you believe in. I even offered to send you a merit badge to proudly wear on your sash. But your post merely attacked me, without discussing what I had stated in my post, which I find rather juvenile behavior in people. But as I said, you win. Peace out. Sinergy

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:43:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve All I can say is WHO is attacking WHO here for their opinions.??????? We don't attack people who buy the OFFICIAL 9-11 story and call them names or finger them asthis or that. We give them the courtesy of respecting what THEY believe in. They should do the same for us who DON'T buy the government's story instead of "you tin foil hat wearer...you are nuts" et al. [:'(] And if you believe that, you are gonna own the bridge...who the fuck are you kidding, here? Don't come the fine old sport out here pal, too late to remove your many belittling comments out here and on most threads Ron

sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 5:46:40 PM)
I was talking about NAMECALLING. PLENTY of that to go around here.

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 6:37:27 PM)
Quite a sob story, Sinergy. quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy She called the Crew Planning at her airline and heard the story disseminated to them What airline? quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy I may have the story wrong. It might be that a flight attendant friend of hers was married to somebody who worked and died in the World Trade Center that day. In that case I am not interested. quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Unlike a cretin psychiatrist from Eastern Canada, I have no interest in "outing" myself on an internet message board. Quite. Nor would I ask you to do so. If you had pertinent information you might have mailed it to me on the other side. You would not be the first one. Unfortunately you do not have pertinent information. quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Out of respect for the pain experienced by a woman I was in a relationship for a long time, I am not going to give you her contact information either. Never mind. She is not of witness interest. Nor was it my intention to contact her. Nor do I have a death wish. quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy I find it surprising that you honestly believe a flight never took off from any airport, was not serviced by any ground crew, was not piloted and run by any flight crew, and flew into the World Trade Center as was captured on news video cameras. There is no record of American Airlines Flights 11 and 77 having taken off. According to the federal aviation administration Flights 93 and 175 are still airworthy. I have tried to find evidence that the airplanes were supplied with foods and drink, but could not find any such records - but I am rather inept in such a search. I am not aware of any of the alleged planes having been serviced by ground crews, but suppose that the two existing planes - Flights 93 and 175 - may have been fueled by such crews. As Flight 175 is still listed as airworthy, how can it have flown into WTC2? I have read or heard a suggestion that the plane that flew into WTC2 was actually a somewhat smaller plane. There is no evidence at all of anyone having boarded any of those alleged airplanes, neither crew, nor passengers nor highjackers. quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy The flight took off from some unnamed airport somewhere and was piloted by remote control by Monkeyboy and his host of 12390847 co-conspirators that nobody has ever heard about. There are plenty of such co-conspirators known. For example: the alleged passengers and crew of those four flying objects - and their weeping relatives. quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy I apologize if I seem a little bent out of shape. Nothing emotionally destroys me more than the look of pain and loss on somebody I deeply care for, especially when it is a situation where I can do nothing but be there for her. Yes, you are bent out of shape. That is because you are affected by emotions. I am not. I am interested only in alleged facts and the probabilities that such alleged facts may be true. I do not have a personal agenda. I am not selective about the arguments pro or against. I am not out to prove that any particular suspect is responsible. I am not interested in winning by whatever means or arguments. You have provided no pertinent information. In fact, you have provided disinformation. Your thermate hypothesis is interesting, but does not convince me. I have done some research on 9/11. I have weighed the evidence. My conclusion is unequivocal: 9/11 is a hoax.

sissifytoserve -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 6:52:50 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 10:23:06 PM)
quote: They should do the same for us who DON'T buy the government's story instead of "you tin foil hat wearer...you are nuts" et al. Ummm.....but...you are!

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 10:54:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Ummm.....but...you are! Maybe he is. I do not think so, though. My evaluation of sissify is, that there is a domme out there that will consider him and his talents worth his weight in gold. Edited to add: I have just read his profile and it is articulate and impressive. Edited again to add: he also knows his own worth, considering his two signature lines.

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/29/2006 11:35:36 PM)
You are entitled to your opinion Rule, far be it for me to insist you be correct.

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:16:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail This supposes that I believe or should belive that the explosion started in the basement, resulting in the collapse of the building, I note with some interest that there is not a picture of the fly (several fucking tons of metal and basically a large aluminum tube strapped to an even larger gas tank) hitting the building side. Save your learned observations for those casting about, and perhaps I shall sell you some tinker-toys by and by. It may interest some of you to know that natural gas is heavier than the air about you............and the equipment rooms were strewn throught the central core and culminated in the basement, has anyone here ever seen a substation transformer blow up? There is tons of electrical switchgear in those buildings, and it ain't that smart. I have. It seems pretty obvious that should be answered in the negative. How many millions of cubic feet of natural gas were distributed throughout one of those buildings, do you think that natural gas possesses some property that says, oh, the fire was not aimed at me so I am going to lay around and chill? Ron Well both william rodrigeus and that blond newspaper reporter both claimed that there were huge explosions from the sub levels. a natural gas explosion in the basement would only blow out windows, maybe take some plaster off the walls, but would not have enough force to register a 2.3 on the rector scale several miles away at columbia university and would not take out the buildings core structure. i may be wrong but the kitchens i thought were around the 35th floors werent they? That would have been far below the point of impact where the plane went through. i get the impression you have not taken the time to watch much of that footage but people in the stair wells at the times of those explosions claimed that a silvery grey smoke (which by coincidence is consistant with the color of of a thermite explosion), shot up through the stair wells and i assume you know that a natural gas explosion is colorless except for a breif flame. Electrical gear, tho they make a nice boom has no real force only last as long as it takes to take out the fuses on the electric companies mains, and there is no way an electrical explosion could cause any sructural damage to the infrastructure of a building like that. i think if you have problems with that (as i did), you owe it to yourself to view some of those clips that peeps have been posting especially the one i posted with the fire burning downward in falling blobs taking note of the "color" of that fire and falling blobs. (assuming you understand the way color corresponds to the temperature of a flame). i suppose they never guessed that the corner of the building would be exposed to the outside view so we could see what went on. That corner with the falling blobs was the first part of that building that collapsed and began to fall btw, then didnt you think it was funny that instead of falling sideways and toppling over like a tree would fall down or just tip sideways and hang there for a while that instead it mysteriously straightened itself back up and then fell? One could almost believe it that the corner that was on fire would give away but then the opposite corner that was not on fire nearly 100 yards away all of a sudden gave away to make it all straighten out before it finally came crashing down on itself. Dont you think that was really strange? i cant speak for other peoples laws of physics but this defies all the "natural" laws of physics that i know.

ToGiveDivine -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:33:22 AM)
It never ceases to amaze me that the people that are saying how incredibly stupid GW is are the same people saying he concocted 9/11 Building are constructed so that each floor is able to withstand so many degrees for at least 2 hours to permit evacuation of the higher floors. Since Aviation fuel burns hotter than your normal building fire, that length of time was lessoned. Combined with the number of supports that were destroyed when the planes crashed and it was only a matter of time before structural failure took it's toll. BTW, the Bin Laden family made their billions in construction - they understand buildings and the forces that can cause them to fall down.

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:53:27 AM)
quote: BTW, the Bin Laden family made their billions in construction - they understand buildings and the forces that can cause them to fall down. This is a very good point. Thanks for reminding us.

meatcleaver -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 8:17:05 AM)
This is just a general point by a cynic and not a reply to Arpig but a general observation I've had while reading successive 9/11 threads. How come so many Americans have family or friends or know someone who died in the WTC but just as many Americans have died in Iraq and Afghanistan and no one seems to know them?

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