RE: A Question of Free Speech by Immigrants (Full Version)

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MistressTexas -> RE: A Question of Free Speech by Immigrants (11/4/2006 4:05:04 AM)

I believe that freedom of religion will only go so far. I'll give you an example.
I once dated an east indian boy (yes the term was used on purpose) who had immagrated here roughly a year before we began dating. At some point, for whatever reason, he got his head up his ass over a workout top I would wear. We actually got in a screaming drag out fight over it. My position being that "It's July, I have a ton of stuff to do, most of which involves a wrestling mat or a treadmill, and I refuse to wear something heavier, which will suffocate me, or something looser, which will get in my way all day." His position was "You're my woman and no others should see any of your skin. Ever." Eventually we came to a wary truce, and I agreed to not wear it after that day. Well eventually, I forgot, or it was laundry day.. possibly both. In any case, I wore the offending shirt, and he had the gall to smack me across the face.. hard. I had a bruise for a good 2 weeks (and this is when I was training 7 days a week, getting routinely punched in the face. It took a lot to bruise me at that point.). Absolutely stunned, I asked him WTF he was thinking? His response was basically that in his country men are allowed to discipline women as they see fit when the women dishonour themselves. He then gave me the option of putting on his sweatshirt. Which I oh so politely threw back in his face while telling him where to go and how to get there. Reward for that? Another smack to the jaw, and another lecture on religion, honor and me being a lesser species. At that point I pretty much snapped on him, and performed my absolute best soccer goalie-style drop kick to his nuts, called 911 and had him arrested for assault.
I can't tell you hpw much that frustrates me and aggravates me. I respect that people have their own cultures and religious beliefs, however some things just don't translate. Like domestic abuse. I don't give a flying cat what it is you do "back home" or "in your old country" or anything else. In this country, this culture, this civilisation, you do not get to hit a woman because she wears something you don't like. Yes I realize that there are way too many North American people that do believe its fine, but thats not really my point.
The fact that this sheikh seems to think any woman not veiled invites her own rapist is horrid. I agree that some women don't do everything they could to minimize their risk, but I have severe doubts whether any woman consciouly thinks "Hmmm, I'm bored... whats there to do tonight... Oooh! i think I'll go out and get raped. Now what to wear?" Again, that may be the belief in other countries, however in North America, everyone pretty much has the right to dress however they damn well please, and expect their day to be rape/hate crime/ etc etc. free. Do I necessarily reccomend (for instance) an adorably lippy gay guy to walk into a hells angel bar wearing a pink paisly Dolce&Gabbana suit and start raving about how he got it 30% off? Hmm probably not. But thats another situation where a person is voluntarily putting themself into a situation and refusing to acclimate. Much like immagrants taking this ass-backwards insulting view of women = rape bait. Or any person who chooses to engage in non-consentual abuse.
I personally believe there needs to be way higher standards of acclimation, and much harsher standards for immagration.




Dtesmoac -> RE: A Question of Free Speech by Immigrants (11/4/2006 5:49:38 AM)

Surely the Sheiks words have clearly helped to clarrify the position of a particular religeous group. He is the head of a large group of people and has expressed an opinion which allows others not of that group to understand what it would be like if he or eople similar to him gained power in your country.

Too often you will here the politically correct version of a belief system or culture. Let them speak all of their thoughts and by the third and fourth generations there should be enough of that cultural group to point out that it is total crap. The most important aspect of free speach is to be able to respond to the chant of the fanatic. For all the people who shout out "islam is a nice belief system" & "the west is islamaphobic" - not a lot of proof for these statements is there? 

Whther immigrant or not you should be able to voice your opinion, but also have to listen to the response. if the cat comes onto my property and eats the uncovered meat - shoot it (oops forgot I don't have a gun - so I'll resort to good old drowning) .  




SaphireLynn -> RE: A Question of Free Speech by Immigrants (11/4/2006 7:19:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

MY OPINION:  One should adapt to the country's laws and customs they immigrate to.  Practice what they wish within their own homes.  Otherwise, why immigrate in the first place?


I agree if they want to come to Our country then they should take Our traditions and leaves theres behind... and that includes our language... they need to speak english what is the deal of not learning our language?




popeye1250 -> RE: A Question of Free Speech by Immigrants (11/4/2006 11:55:36 AM)

But,....but,...they said "diversity" was going to be a "good" thing!




popeye1250 -> RE: A Question of Free Speech by Immigrants (11/5/2006 12:46:03 AM)

The Irish have their "customs" too.
And when it comes to shitheels like these guys there's an old Irish custom that involves a rusty shovel.




MasterKalif -> RE: A Question of Free Speech by Immigrants (11/8/2006 7:55:19 PM)

hmmm...interesting point. I think that while an immigrant should conform to customs of the new land (hey I do, right?) it may be the reason why he or she immigrated there in the first place....I also don't think they need to assimilate 100% and lose their old heritage or customs or language altogether, but simply adapt them, mix them. It is also important to remember at first too that immigrants will bring with them certain things, ideas, etc which is both good and bad. Good in that they could enrich the American way of life in any given ways....culturally, intelectually, etc. The bad thing is that they can bring customs and ideas that could be illegal in the US...hence the US should "smarten up" and make it easier for those who have Masters degrees or higher forms of study to immigrate rather than a peasant who barely can read and write in his or her own language....

Also to take into account, immigrants from other western nations assimilate easier as the American culture is more similar to their own...than say, the country where the Sheik comes from....when the immigrant first arrives too, and finds other immigrants from his same country or geographical area of origin (say someone from Syria immigrates and hangs out in the Lebanese community), they will be shocked culturally and it takes time to get adjusted. Take for example the German immigrants in the US in the 1930's....some of them were rabidly anti-Hitler, while others were very much in favor of him and even crated a local Nazi party...and now, these descendants are very American like everyone else. I think today it is much harder for immigrants to be accepted and let in (legally) by the US gov than say in the 50's...when it seems all they would ask is if you were a communist or gay, or something strange to that effect...I could be wrong though.

anyways....I think everyone has a right to say what they want in a free society even if it is someone who doesn't conform with the majority or even if their view seems "insulting"...




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