RE: "No Doormat"

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/3/2005 2:06:19 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

It's funny how sometimes we can mean one thing and have it perceived in a totally different light. If you don't mind my using some of your wording, I would like to change mine to match your sentiment a bit more closely.

erin,

I completely agree with you that often, especially in a written medium, what we mean is not what is perceived. I think that is an argument for learning to better use our chosen written language, but we've had the 'illiterate' and 'hard to read' threads until we could all recite them in our sleep.

Feel free to draw inspiration from where ever you might find it and make it your own. I'm honored that you were inspired by my words.

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“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/4/2005 2:22:54 PM

Voltare

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
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Just a quick thought,

I've used the generalized term 'I don't care for doormats' myself. To me, it's just a quick way of saying that I don't like the stereotypical variety of slave/submissive/bottom/etc who fits the spineless description. It isn't to say that I want a slave who would refuse to be a figurative (or literal) doormat if I told them too, but rather if that is their general disposition, I can afford a much nicer looking, less expensive, and more obedient door mat at Wal mart (well, Lider is the South American version of the store.)

Then again, if the conversation was so blasé as to having to resort to talking about a person as a doormat, I probably wouldn't want to continue it.

I suppose my opinion should get added to the 5 of 25 that nobody could figure out what it meant.

Stephan

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/4/2005 3:34:06 PM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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I do not know where this "sterotype" of the spineless sub/slave comes from since I've never met or talked to one. To me it sounds like something from the "vanilla world".. the views of someone who doesn't know anything about the lifestyle and assigns labels such as spineless or pussy whipped to a man who follows a woman's orders. How many of you have actually met a spineless submissive in person. I don't mean someone online or via email who can be playing a role. I mean people you've met and observed over a period of time in person. I'm sure there are a few of them out there. There are broken people and victims in all walks of life. Personally, I've yet to meet them, and they will stand out as a glaring exception when I finally do.

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/5/2005 2:24:42 AM

LdyAuburn

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The definition of doormat appears to be as varied as 'true' does. Perhaps people on the outside might see an obedient submissive as a doormat as s/he agrees with their dominant, obeys their orders and is attentive to them without putting themselves forward. Just because a person obeys doesnt make them a doormat, it may make them a perfect submissive to the dominant they are with.
I agree with the perosn who previously stated that often in profiles those who say they arent a doormat often do have issues... and are quite big on the expecting tangible exchanges, eg I do the dishes you spank me

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/5/2005 5:14:24 AM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

I know I've stated in a recent thread that my usual response is to pass people by (as prospectives) if they use this phrase. I have come to think of it, as a gross generalization, to mean that the person is not settled enough in their submission that they feel they have to justify their existance. It's almost as if they have a defensive chip on their shoulder in reaction to all the would-be dom/mes who think that a submissive must bow down before anyone claiming to be a dom/me.

While I can appreciate not wanting to deal with that sort, I think a suitable reaction is to just ignore them, shut them down. Needing to qualify yourself to an asshole speaks volumes and what it says is not about the asshole. As I've mentioned on other threads, why rise to the challenge of a fool? While it's wordier to say "I don't give my submission to just anybody, so if you are the sort to believe all submissives should act a certain way with all dominants then we are not a match" I think this sort of statement says more positive things about the person than "I'm not a doormat" does.

YMMV on this given that most of the Dommes who've replied to this thread are much more experienced than I am, and I'm more or less coming from a place where although I've played with a lot of people, I feel that I'm just at a place now that I can make a search for someone who will eventually be in my collar.

I've waiting a couple days, and read Suz post twice before replying. I guess I'm not so annoyed with the guys who say "I'm not a doormat." To me, it says that they've been approached by Dommes who exclisively want a doormat, and that they themselves do not see themselves as such. I don't see the phrase "I'm not a doormat" as antithetical to being a submissive. On the contrary, I hear more often than not from the submissives how they are servile and service oriented only, and desire only to fulfill all my needs. My 'needs' are much more in the S&M and D/s realm than they are in a 'service' realm. By presenting themselves submissive first, human second, they've already been passed over by me.

I'd much rather have a male submissive articulate to me that they are not a doormat, than to show up as one and expect me to fall over myself in abject joy because they 'desire to be of total service.'

I want a man who's submissive, not a robot in sub clothing.

Lily

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/5/2005 11:08:17 AM

NATI

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I had one sub contact me who described doormat as 'not gettin' any'.

I can't remember how often he said he needed to get some to avoid 'doormat' status - but I thought that was cute.

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/5/2005 2:24:06 PM

GentleLady

Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

How many of you have actually met a spineless submissive in person. I don't mean someone online or via email who can be playing a role. I mean people you've met and observed over a period of time in person. I'm sure there are a few of them out there. There are broken people and victims in all walks of life. Personally, I've yet to meet them, and they will stand out as a glaring exception when I finally do.

I have met one in person and have known him for over 50 years. I would not classify him as broken or a victim because it was in his nature to be spineless. I have met many other broken people but they would not be classified as submissive. This male was decidedly submissve.

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/5/2005 5:56:47 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
'I don't care for doormats' myself. To me, it's just a quick way of saying that I don't like the stereotypical variety of slave/submissive/bottom/etc who fits the spineless description. It isn't to say that I want a slave who would refuse to be a figurative (or literal) doormat if I told them too

Then again, if the conversation was so blasé as to having to resort to talking about a person as a doormat, I probably wouldn't want to continue it.
Stephan

I can understand your having run into a situation and needing to use it, especially when they approach like "I am a worm, please pee/shit on me"... Stereotypical sounding indeed, but try asking for something simple that you want, but they haven't indicated a desire in having you "forcing" them to do; you quickly discover that the stereotype is exactly that, and it's only words people online use because they think it'll get the desired results (a willing jerk-off-material-provider online).

Indeed as BeachMystress has already said, there are generally no spineless subs/slaves (I certainly haven't met one yet online or r/t), it's just a sterotype which people mold into whatever their needs are, and than present selves as potential ?doormats online; in my limited experience, this approach is generally used to direct the conversation toward where the "?doormat" wants to stear the convo.

As for blase conversation, I suppose that is for each person to determine; I can converse well with some people, but not to all people, so that is par for the course in determining weather or not 2 people are compatible... The reason doormat annoys me is because it's always used in an untimely fashion; for example, if I was suggesting someone eat/play with scat (when he hates the idea), or to a man who is rigidly heterosexual that he do another man or allow self done, and he says "I'm submissive, but no doormat", I would understand itand accept it. JMO, M

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RE: "No Doormat" - 2/5/2005 6:57:35 PM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI

I had one sub contact me who described doormat as 'not gettin' any'. I can't remember how often he said he needed to get some to avoid 'doormat' status - but I thought that was cute.

ROFLMAO, I love a man with a sense of humor

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Post #: 29