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RE: submissive vs slave - 11/7/2006 9:48:38 PM

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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My boy is a slave, by his own definition. He has rights, and he is allowed to speak up if he has reason to. He is alowed to have his own friends, though if I object to any of them he is expected to distance himself. I dictate how he dresses when he is with me. He is expected to be capable enough to make those and other important decisions when we are apart. He doesnt question my decisions unless he has a valid reason to do so, and he trusts me completely.
The difference is mainly in terminology. If you dont like the term slave, then dont use it. I am a Mistress, but I hate the term and never use it. I have enough others that I dont need to use the one I dont like to make sure someone understands my position.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/7/2006 9:50:00 PM

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Next to the ballot initiative about whether we should appropriate $20 million for veterans of the first Gulf War, we should have had a referendum on the meaning of "submissive" and "slave."

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/7/2006 10:33:34 PM

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I define slave in the lifestyle as being non exsistant. It's a fairy tale to think you a slave.

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 7:19:33 AM

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Joined: 8/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

I define slave in the lifestyle as being non exsistant. It's a fairy tale to think you a slave.

Well thank god i am living a fairy tale then, wow, who knew that you could REALLY live a fariy tale??? Now where's the castle? (i know there are a ton of trolls online and i did find my King/Master/Daddy Charming. So maybe you've stumbled onto something, my Daddy/Master always does call me his little fairy princess)

Seriously though, that's really just your opinion and what an icky, condescending way to express it. (but you are entiltled to it) JUST EWWW!
Alot of us DO LIVE IT each and everyday and nothing anyone says will change that for "us".Are we slaves like those in history? Well no, and that is NOT what is up for discussion but...
Each and every day i serve my Master and he is the one in control of my entire life. He controls where i am allowed to go, what i am able to do, the roof over my head, the food in the fridge, the money that i have, the job that i do....EVERYTHING. And he guides me, disciplines and occasionally punishes. Also according to the dictionary definition that has been possted here a zillion times, i am his slave.

Sooo

Once upon a tme in an enchanted world of love and BDSM Daddy Charming's little fairy princess.....blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda...... Happliy ever after.

THE END

_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

(in reply to imtempting)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 7:22:12 AM

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Slaves =You belong to somebady u be own by someone where u movement are complete control by your master .............

Submissive =Is about you attitude where u can defined as follower to does dominant . [feeling weak infront of person who superior ] u free to speak out...... '

Example :If you are men u scare of you woman {partner } .... ......or u scare of another men .....

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 8:37:22 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iced05

Slaves =You belong to somebady u be own by someone where u movement are complete control by your master .............

Submissive =Is about you attitude where u can defined as follower to does dominant . [feeling weak infront of person who superior ] u free to speak out...... '

Example :If you are men u scare of you woman {partner } .... ......or u scare of another men .....

I have never felt "weak" in my submissiion. That is an interesting description and I am curious if others feel this way.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to iced05)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 9:00:11 AM

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Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: iced05

Slaves =You belong to somebady u be own by someone where u movement are complete control by your master .............

Submissive =Is about you attitude where u can defined as follower to does dominant . [feeling weak infront of person who superior ] u free to speak out...... '

Example :If you are men u scare of you woman {partner } .... ......or u scare of another men .....

I have never felt "weak" in my submissiion. That is an interesting description and I am curious if others feel this way.

No. In this life being submissive does not mean weak. It has been discussed I am sure many many times but being in a relationship of any nature takes two people who are both strong in their beliefs, convictions and actions. It is just that being submissive is the preference of someone to let someone specific take the lead in some not all things and not out of desparate need for anyone to do that.

How iced05 defined submissive is just taking everyday traits and putting society's judgmental interpitations on them. Leaders are strong! Followers are weak type stuff. It really is one note and not accurate. Many people are both in life. Many "leaders" are masking issues with dominant behavior and many submissive people are hiding their inner strength from the public. This really does not have much to do with D/s or M/s.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 12:32:11 PM

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You explained what a submissive can be aswell. Like I've said before if you want to be a slave then i'm sure in some 3 world countries or even countries with more loosly controlled governments you can go there to be a slave.

Then you will have no controll, you will be punished. You will not be able to leave under any condition on fear of death or servre punishment.

Or is real life slavery too much for you to handle?? And not this so called fake slavery people define in the lifestyle.

Like I said a new word needs to be made for these so called 'slaves'...

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 1:05:16 PM

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Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

Then you will have no controll, you will be punished. You will not be able to leave under any condition on fear of death or servre punishment.

this is reality for many slaves in this lifestyle, in the western world as well. no it's not the popular, politically correct, SSC way that's often touted as the gospel way to live D/s, but it's out there and very much real for some.

(in reply to imtempting)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 1:26:49 PM

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Joined: 8/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

You explained what a submissive can be aswell. Like I've said before if you want to be a slave then i'm sure in some 3 world countries or even countries with more loosly controlled governments you can go there to be a slave.

Then you will have no controll, you will be punished. You will not be able to leave under any condition on fear of death or servre punishment.

Or is real life slavery too much for you to handle?? And not this so called fake slavery people define in the lifestyle.

Like I said a new word needs to be made for these so called 'slaves'...

Not that your opinion changes what happens in my life one iota or will change the terminology in the BDSM community, but, just for the hell of it i decided to go check dictionary.com myself and draw a comparison with the dictionary definitionS (notice there are many more than 1, 10 of them actually, and that's just for starters)
1.a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2.a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. 3.a drudge: a housekeeping slave. 4.a slave ant. 5.Photography. a subsidiary flash lamp actuated through its photoelectric cell when the principal flash lamp is discharged. 6.Machinery. a mechanism under control of and repeating the actions of a similar mechanism. Compare master (def. 19). –verb (used without object) 7.to work like a slave; drudge. 8.to engage in the slave trade; procure, transport, or sell slaves. –verb (used with object) 9.to connect (a machine) to a master as its slave.
10.Archaic. to enslave.

As you can claerly see there are a bunch of different definitions for slave, SLAVE MACHINES, SLAVE ANTS, SLAVE LAMPS, HOUSE HOLD SLAVES, SERVANTS etc etc. They all have similarities but are not the smae thing and yet they use the same word SLAVE.

Since you think it is so inappropriate to use the word in BDSM and that the only non-faux slaves are the ones in third world countries are you going to tell the entimologist that a SLAVE ANT can't be called that unless of course the ants are enslaved in a thrid world country? How about the machinist? Or photographer? That unless their lamps or machines are being used by them in a third world country against their will under fear of death that they'll have to come up with another way to lable their pieces of equipment? Maybe you can help rewrite the dictionaries to your liking?

So where do some BDSM slaves fit in with the dictionary definitions? Where do i?

1. A person who is the property and wholly under the influence of another person, a bond servant. (X check)
2. A person entirely under the domination o some influence or person . (X check)
3. A drudge; a housekeeping slave. (X check)
4. To work like a slave; drudge. (X check)

And more dictionary definitions

One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.(X check)
One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: “I was still the slave of education and prejudice” (Edward Gibbon) (X check).
One who works extremely hard. (X check)
slave adj : held in servitude; 1: a person who is owned by someone 2: someone who works as hard as a slave [syn: striver, hard worker] 3: someone entirely dominated by some influence or person; "a slave to fashion"; "a slave to cocaine"; "his mother was his abject slave" v : work very hard, like a slave [syn: break one's back, buckle down, knuckle down]

And just to add i also looked up submissive and lo and behold it metions slave and servant.
submissive adj 1: inclined or willing to submit to orders or wishes of others or showing such inclination; "submissive servants"; "a submissive reply"; "replacing troublemakers with more submissive people" [ant: domineering] 2: willing to submit without resistance to authority; deferent 3: abjectly submissive; characteristic of a slave or servant; "slavish devotion to her job ruled her life"; "a slavish yes-man to the party bosses"- S.H.Adams; "she has become submissive and subservient" [syn: slavish, subservient]

Well i work extremely hard in my relationship with my Daddy/Master, clean and cook and take care of the household, am subservient and owned and taken care of like a "pet" (for lack of other term) i am wholly under his influence and control. i am his sevant and slave.

This little rant is not meant to detract from anyone who doesn't consider themselves a slave or to point fingers at any of you. It is just my own personal thoughts on my personal experience in consensual slavery.

_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

(in reply to imtempting)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/8/2006 8:43:01 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2006
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my Master has given me many freedoms when i first became His before i was a sub but now i proudly wear my Masters collar

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/9/2006 4:21:55 AM

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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guys my definiton just general from my own propestus doesnt mean someone be submissve their weak physically or mentally but i mean weak in way u agree to follow or to submit to the person that all i mean sorry i dint write it in proper ways

(in reply to Killbotsgirl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/9/2006 6:08:42 AM

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Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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Don't bother worrying about the label. Just meet prospective partners and see if both your needs could be met in a relationship and if there's any attraction. Each relationship is different. I'm a sub yet in three years I've only said no once except for illness and logistical problems. Does this make me a slave in someone else's eyes, probably. But does someone else's view on this matter to me, not at all. The only people who have to be happy in this relationship are him and me, so whether we call ourselves D/s, M/s, D/lg or Mutt and Jeff doesn't matter. How we feel does.

(in reply to iced05)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/9/2006 9:29:22 AM

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Subs and slave:

Please note I said sub “and” slaves. I don’t mean to split hairs here but I think its important to make that distinction because the word “verses” has always bothered me as it denotes one might be better than the other. So forgive my pickiness.

For the sake of this topic I will offer my ideas as to the differences;

Slave: one who is driven to submit and to which no other form of submission will do. They tend to have a desire to fulfill the purpose and the pleasure of ones owner. They tend to think dependant on the wishes of the Master were a submissive may choose to think independent of the wishes of the Master. The slave’s ego is also somewhat different than that of a submissive in that their actions are less ego driven than that of a submissive. The slave may also be proactive in their service to another; seeking out ways to improve their quality of service while a sub may need to be directed to do so.

I believe that slaves often feel that they are called to serve where as a submissive my not be as driven in that way. The desire to give up will and control may also be different in the slave than in the submissive. The slave may make their service and submission to another the center of their lives, while a submissive may allow others to influence their course and the level of submission to another.

For example a Master may tell the slave that he or she must quite their high paying job and stay home and serve.. The reaction from the slave in this instance would be different then that of a submissive who has more fee will to say no. Then there is the issue of limits and I don’t necessarily mean SM limits but rather limits based on control… the slave strives to negate any need for social sexual, SM and economic limits where as a sub may feel quite comfortable with setting those limits and sticking to them.

These are some of the differences I often see however lets not discount the fact that there are subs out there who have some or all of those traits of a slave but whom are uncomfortable with the label of slave.

Thank you for your consideration in what I have written

Slave ziggy

(in reply to SweetBobbie)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/9/2006 11:38:55 AM

Posts: 1093
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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetBobbie

I am new to this lifestyle but have felt submissive as far back as i can remember. What i am uncertain about now is do i want to be a submissive or a slave? Part of the problem is that i am not at all sure that i really understand the difference. i am a professional with a career and during the day must actually run things but once out of my professional role i am willing even eager to relinquish control to another, i think completely. i would appreciate the input of others in both roles both about the differences in the role and their own feelings about their role.

A sub obeys her Dom; a slave obeys her Master.
A sub has limits that were discussed when she started her relationship; a slave has limits that were discussed when she started her relationship.
A sub has limits as defined by her Dom; a slave has limits as defined by her Master.
A sub has a deep bond with her Dom; a slave has a deep bond with her Master.
A sub is equally as devoted to her Dom as a slave is to her Master.
There is no evidence that a sub serves in any less capacity than a slave.
There is no evidence there is any different level of commitment in either case.

As you go along, you will find slaves who call themselves 'no limit slaves'. There are in fact some slaves who truly have no limits, not even death. But you will find that most who call themselves 'no limit slaves' do in fact have some type of limit(s).

You will hear the phrase "slaves submit just once".....but that usually means they will submit until there is threat of grievous bodily harm or death....at which point they will either ask for release or leave. That is the same for a sub. In reality, the only one who will not leave under such circumstances is a 'no limit slave'.

Also as you go along, you will find that a dom takes on a sub so he calls himself a Master....and then refers to the sub as a slave. But those self appointed titles do not, in essence, distinguish them as such except within their relationship.

Most likely, you will enter into a relationship with a dom and at some point, he may wish you to call him Master, and at which point, he will probably call you his slave.

You may also enter a relationship with one who already calls himself a Master, so he will immediately refer to you as his slave.

In any event, you most likely will define yourself based on the partner you choose.

If you read the links posted by LA, you will see that ultimately, there is no definable difference between subs and slaves.

Best wishes with your choices

Daddysgirl

< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 11/9/2006 12:32:30 PM >

(in reply to SweetBobbie)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/9/2006 12:25:09 PM

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From: NYS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

Those are all very good definitions, for you and your dom/me or Master/Mistress. But that doesn't mean they will be what the op's future partner will use. And that's what is important to the op, what she and her partner agree on.

As I said I've made one outright refusal in over three years and reminded him that it was in an area he agreed he would not attempt to control. Reminding him of my schedule for the day and why what he wanted wouldn't work doesn't count for us, any more than me reminding him I have a dental appointment and can't stay home to play.

By a lot of people's definitions the fact that I have never refused anything except this one time would make me a slave. We don't like to consider ourselves M/s so we call ourselves D/s. Does it matter that I probably behave in the same way some other self identified slave does? Not at all. The only thing that matters here is what we both feel.

(in reply to Slaveboiz)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/11/2006 2:12:41 AM

onlythewindknows

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Joined: 10/22/2006
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We are all creating stories around existing primal dynamics. This is actually how we survive. It does not mean it is fake - saying "i am a mom and what moms do is take their kids to school" is a kind of story we tell ourselves to make our lives work, and give our lives meaning. We measure ourselves against how well we lived up to the defined role.

We are constantly "writing" ourselves - and if the way of telling the story of one couple's dynamic FOR THEM that holds meaning is Master/slave, Owner/pet, Daddy/babygirl or Mommy/boy or Domme/sub or whatever, so be it.

All of it BECOMES real through the telling of the stories. So none of it is really fake. Even bad cyber relationships have a realness through the fact of the interchange. But, like great writing and cheezy writing, these exchanges have each their own degree of power.

i gotta go to sleeep

< Message edited by onlythewindknows -- 11/11/2006 2:13:36 AM >

_____________________________

As Darth once said: "you are beaten. It is useless to resist."

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/11/2006 6:31:28 AM

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This is a zen type of question and it is up to both the Owner and the sub/slave to define the roles in the relationship. If the relationship is such that it is mostly play on the weekends one is more likely to be identified as a submissive, but if the relationship is a 24/7 than the person should identify its self as a slave.

It also depends as to how much the vanilla world comes into play, in all relationships one partner is Dominant and the other submissive, it is just a question as to how far a couple wishes to take thier roles in the relationship.

my self i have been in the lifestyle for over 25 years, the first couple of years i considered myself just a "submissive", but as one grows into that role and becomes comfortable in that role they will find thier self more and more taking the identity of a slave and growing into that role.

To sum it up one does not just enter in to the lifestyle and say that they are a slave, they may know that they are submissive but becomming a slave takes total commitment and a willingness to serve another that you will accept as your Superior.

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/11/2006 4:03:07 PM

Posts: 143
Status: offline

This question comes up in every BDSM or D/s group, forum, or conversation all to often. I will be damned if anyone will dictate to me what a slave is or a submissive is. I do not conform to any yet to be found bible for this lifestyle we all share. I am a slave to my Domme. And a slave to Her and Her alone. It is only Her that can tell me I am or am not a slave. She makes the rules and gives the titles or names to what She and I are to each other, no one else.
I am submissive to Her as well. So just call me a submissive slave. But of course there are those that are arrogant enough to say I am not a slave since I do not conform to their opinion, idea or some book they read says what a slave is.
Now ask me how I know I am a slave...Well, She said so! Good enough for me!
My being Her slave is exactly what She wants it to be and to mean. And that happens to match perfectly with what it is I want. I am proud to be called a slave by Her.
There are no hard fast rules or governing body that we all MUST follow. My relationship with my Domme is a very caring, very loving relationship. Does that mean it is not a Domme/slave relationship?
Now is someone going to tell me that a slave can not love his/her Dom/Domme? I'd say they are crazy and not worth my time to debate the issue with.
You are what you and your Dominant say you are, and to what degree, and how you and your Dominant share this lifestyle.

_____________________________

"Don't make someone a priority in your life, When you're only an option in theirs"

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: submissive vs slave - 11/11/2006 6:10:26 PM

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: robert2serve

To sum it up one does not just enter in to the lifestyle and say that they are a slave, they may know that they are submissive but becomming a slave takes total commitment and a willingness to serve another that you will accept as your Superior.

And it is statements like this that perpetrate the false notion that submissives are somehow less committed than slaves.

DG

(in reply to robert2serve)

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