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RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:21:07 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello A/all,

On a related topic, the classes I help teach can cause emotional and limbic system disturbances at a very deep level of consciousness, for people with past trauma in their lives. We take a person into a part of their mind where for some of them these horrors of past incidents might surface and overwhelm them.

We teach the students a safe word to use. When this word is used, the female coach has another safe word that tells me to immediately cease and desist what I am doing so that psychological triage can be done to bring the student back from a deeply disassociative meltdown place.

The class I help teach has nothing to do with D/s or BDSM.

For me, I prefer the one I am with to have a way of communicating to me in case she ever finds herself in a place where she cannot articulate what is happening in her head, but wants somebody to throw her a rescue bouy to cling to before she drowns psychologically.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 81

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:21:14 PM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Why apply inferiority if you still come away from both experiences with a full belly?

Because everyone knows McDonalds food sucks. Nobody goes there becuase the food is good or has any nutritional value whatsoever. They go there to eat cheap food they can get in a few minutes.
Hardly a complimentary comparison to make to someone's interpersonal relationships.
But, you're a bright guy. I have a hard time believing you didnt just choose not to see that.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 82

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:21:48 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

I'm not sure how you saw that as condescending...I surely didn't. As for studies....we now need studies to prove or disprove our own personal viewpoints and opinions????

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 83

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:26:30 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Asking for a study to prove a point is bad now? I did not realize wanting people to back up baseless assertions that others take unnecessary risks with their partners should just be accepted without question... pondering this.

I do not go around stating those without safewards have crap junk food relationships and take risks with their partners. I think that is condescending, that is an opinion that is not insinuating or outright stating that others somehow are unsafe based on a word.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 84

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:30:31 PM

Morrigel

Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I'm not sure how you saw that as condescending...I surely didn't.

Is this one of those "common sense" moments, d'ya think?

--M

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 85

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:32:37 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

At great risk of being redundant, I'm hoping you'll (Merc) take the time to engage me directly in a discussion on the topic. Here's my earlier post, which would make a good starting point.

John,
Using my favorite trite attorney interjection during depositions; "asked and answered". However, if there is anything in particular that I've said, or you fell I've alluded to that is not clear, feel free to ask directly on the profile side.

If you chose to go that route this is the disclaimer that usually comes with the response; "The views and opinions expresses are dogma for 'Merc & beth' and not to be construed as 'lifestyle' dogma in any form or fashion. Any feeling of personal attack, validation, hope, hopelessness, or invalidation, perceived by the blunt, sarcastic, pragmatic, stupid, smart, insightful, bazaar, brutal, honest, irrelevant response comes from your perspective not ours. If you don't believe that this is how we live and act let us know when you are in the neighborhood, and we'll be happy to meet you in person and, if we enjoy your company, you'll be welcomed into the hospitality of our home." That goes for Jay Wiseman too.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 86

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:34:26 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

julia.....it's his PERSONAL opinion and viewpoint....take it or leave it. Asking someone to provide empirical data to validate a personal opinion is ludicrous. One person's "baseless assertion" is another's "life experience lesson learned". One person's "crap junkfood" is another person's "special occasion treat".

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 87

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:35:04 PM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I'm not sure how you saw that as condescending...I surely didn't.

Really? You don't think that comparing a person's interpersonal relationships to a mass-produced, tasteless, nutritionally empty, salt-and-sugar-laden, fattening, sedating, mass-marketed, cheap product saying "hey, it's all just about getting your physical needs met anyway, right?" is condescending?

They dont call McMansions "McMansions" because they are well-made, high quality homes. In general, the term Mc________ added to anything indicates the opinion that something is of poor quality and has little or not aesthetic value.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 88

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:39:00 PM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

julia.....it's his PERSONAL opinion and viewpoint....take it or leave it.

I could be wrong, but I think that when a person makes assertions about the behavior of all people who do or dont ascribe to a certain belief or practice, they ought to be able to provide at least anecdotal support for their claim.

Merc has asserted on more than one occassion that safewords make play less safe because people who have safe words are lulled into a false sense of security. He has had opportunities to acknowledge that this is an assumption on his part and has chosen not to do so but instead assert his believe again. Asking on what, aside from his personal opinion, he bases this belief is not out of order.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 89

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:39:01 PM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I'm not sure how you saw that as condescending...I surely didn't. As for studies....we now need studies to prove or disprove our own personal viewpoints and opinions????

Help Erin, help me, it's happening, oh the horror...oh the shame....

If you are real and true you must have studies to back you up, didn't you know that ?

Now excuse me while i go gargle with Clorox.

Seriously you know how i feel about this subject, they can be useful in training beginners but they are no substitute for a hearty " Hey, Fucking Stop! I just ..... (broke my hip, crossed my threshhold, had a heart attack., etc....)

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 90

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:47:03 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

For the record, I think a lot of Merc and beth from what I have read of both. I have respect for their relationship. I am not taking this in a completely personal way what they are saying. I am not attacking them in any way shape or form. I would really like to meet both one day as they seem smart, with it, and have a wonderful relationship from which I could learn from...

Just wanted to state that, but I think that both Merc and beth know that is the case...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 91

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:48:39 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Because everyone knows McDonalds food sucks. Nobody goes there becuase the food is good or has any nutritional value whatsoever. They go there to eat cheap food they can get in a few minutes. Hardly a complimentary comparison to make to someone's interpersonal relationships. But, you're a bright guy. I have a hard time believing you didnt just choose not to see that.

heather,
"Super-size-Me" aside, the millions of people and the billions of hamburgers sold indicate some value. I'm sorry I chose not to challenge the 'taste' of anyone who frequents McDonald's; honestly I don't go there, but enough people do to validate it as a viable meal alternative. However, I can't help it if you don't believe me. If you take the comparative reference as a denigration of someones interpersonal relationship, know that I didn't, and don't, see it that way. I'm usually not accused of looking at the positive side of things, this is a new experience.

quote:

Asking for a study to prove a point is bad now? I did not realize wanting people to back up baseless assertions that others take unnecessary risks with their partners should just be accepted without question... pondering this.

julia,
I'd be happy to apply for a grant to conduct the study. Meanwhile reference a study where the converse is true? Your assertions are just as baseless, but I see no personal attack or invalidation in them.
I didn't bring up the 'Mc' reference, but because I chose to not see it as negative I'm to be challenged? Wouldn't it be better to provide an argument against the position raised by the reference if one existed?

Edited to add:

quote:

Julia: For the record, I think a lot of Merc and beth from what I have read of both. I have respect for their relationship. I am not taking this in a completely personal way what they are saying. I am not attacking them in any way shape or form. I would really like to meet both one day as they seem smart, with it, and have a wonderful relationship from which I could learn from...

Just wanted to state that, but I think that both Merc and beth know that is the case...

NEVER a doubt, and trust you know the same regarding personal attack. What an entertaining time it will be when we do meet!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 11/7/2006 5:01:55 PM >

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 92

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 4:59:34 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I'm not sure how you saw that as condescending...I surely didn't.

Really? You don't think that comparing a person's interpersonal relationships to a mass-produced, tasteless, nutritionally empty, salt-and-sugar-laden, fattening, sedating, mass-marketed, cheap product saying "hey, it's all just about getting your physical needs met anyway, right?" is condescending?

They dont call McMansions "McMansions" because they are well-made, high quality homes. In general, the term Mc________ added to anything indicates the opinion that something is of poor quality and has little or not aesthetic value.

Really....I didn't read his post in that light at all. First, he was not the originator of the McBondage term on this thread. Second, I read that he was pointing out that the value one places upon something is really in the "eye of the beholder" so to speak.

As for your McMansions...I have never heard the term....but I would point out to you that there are some folks in the world who don't have their heads so high in the clouds that a McMansion or a crap, fast food meal would be a welcome blessing rather than the refuse category you put them in.

quote:

I could be wrong, but I think that when a person makes assertions about the behavior of all people who do or dont ascribe to a certain belief or practice, they ought to be able to provide at least anecdotal support for their claim.

Merc has asserted on more than one occassion that safewords make play less safe because people who have safe words are lulled into a false sense of security. He has had opportunities to acknowledge that this is an assumption on his part and has chosen not to do so but instead assert his believe again. Asking on what, aside from his personal opinion, he bases this belief is not out of order.

And what if the only thing he is basing it upon is his personal belief? Does everyone then just say...oh ok then?

I love chocolate....personally, I think that people who don't like it must have some kind of defect somewhere...I just can't even comprehend not liking chocolate. Can I prove that thought or provide some anecdotal support for it. Nope. Still doesn't take away my right to have that thought. Still doesn't take away my right to state that thought. As I said in an earlier post, if my having my thought makes someone feel like something is wrong with them....then it's their issue, not mine.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 93

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:06:04 PM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
but enough people do to validate it as a viable meal alternative.

Meal alternative. I love it. That is golden.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 94

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:13:12 PM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
As for your McMansions...I have never heard the term....but I would point out to you that there are some folks in the world who don't have their heads so high in the clouds that a McMansion or a crap, fast food meal would be a welcome blessing rather than the refuse category you put them in.

And if I take this personally it's somehow my baggage?
Please, Erin. Thinking that McDonalds is nutritionally deficient, tasteless food and mentioning poorly constructed, over-priced houses does not make me the elitist snob you'd apparently like to have me painted as.

Oh, and if you are not familiar with a term, it is best to not make value judgements based on another person's use of said term. At least not before you Google it.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 95

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:19:24 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

wiki seems to know it all

McMansion is a slang architectural term which first came into use in the United States during the 1980s as a pejorative description and an idiom. It describes a particular style of housing that—as its name suggests—is both large like a mansion and as culturally ubiquitous as McDonald's fast food restaurants.
In addition to ubiquity, almost every reason to poke fun at McDonald's has been applied metaphorically to "McMansions". These criticisms include the deviation from traditional local or regional architectural style, a mass-produced appearance, and perceived negative effects on nature and neighborhoods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMansion

I had never heard the term, but there are many McMansions in my city.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 96

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:21:05 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Well yes, it would be your baggage. It was not meant as a personal affront it was merely my interpretation of your words. If you choose to take it as a personal slam I am powerless to stop you.

quote:

the term Mc________ added to anything indicates the opinion that something is of poor quality and has little or not aesthetic value.

Did I misinterpret or need to Google? I thought it was clear that your opinion of words beginning in "Mc" indicated poor quality and little value, ie: trash.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 97

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:24:06 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I want some fries, with extra salt. I know it's bad, but sometimes I like the smell and taste of McD's fries. Nothing else at that place (heartburn), just the fries. I'm so not elite.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 98

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:26:43 PM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I want some fries, with extra salt. I know it's bad, but sometimes I like the smell and taste of McD's fries.

I used to dig their fries. Especially when BK changed theirs to add that weird batter-esque coating.
Now it all just tastes like.....oil and salt. Not too horribly bad if you're nursing a hangover, but otherwise Id rather get my fat and sodium somewhere else.
If I told you I used to routinely eat their fries dipped in a vanilla milkshake would you lose respect for me?

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 99

RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:29:14 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

If I told you I used to routinely eat their fries dipped in a vanilla milkshake would you lose respect for me?

I don't like the dipping part. But I really like the vanilla milkshake part!

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 100

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