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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 11:18:26 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		Luckily I grew up in a very loving, supportive home.  I was shown respect and love and never had a hand raised to me.  I'm thinking that one only deserves respect if one earns it.  Just because someone has the ability to have and raise children doesn't mean they will be any good at it.  Grandma didn't sound like the most affectionate of people.  Grandma sounds like she didn't deserve any respect.  Seems to me that you did what you could to get by in a no win situation.  You could have been much worse.  If people think that it's ok for a woman to hit a man in self defense, then why do they get so upset if a man, or in this case a boy, does it? 

(in reply to TreSwank)
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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 11:19:25 AM   
MistressSophia


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Arpig,
I think this was a grandmother ,I am sure up in age trying to raise a child ,that his parents didn't. and remember when she was raising her own children ,they came out with a lot more respect ,then this young man seems to have. Now I am not going to stand up for the grand mother way of raising him. But I will give her credit for taking on what seems like a very hot tempered disrespectful young man. And let's remember this is only his side of it.. ONE MAN'S BEATING IS ANOTHERMAN'S SPANKING. Did it give him the right to put his hands on her  HELL NO . Did he ever tell anyone about  the so called abuse? Did he ever report it to a teacher. cops. friends? I need both sides to this story.. to much missing!

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 11:29:45 AM   
TreSwank


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSophia

Arpig,
I think this was a grandmother ,I am sure up in age trying to raise a child ,that his parents didn't. and remember when she was raising her own children ,they came out with a lot more respect ,then this young man seems to have. Now I am not going to stand up for the grand mother way of raising him. But I will give her credit for taking on what seems like a very hot tempered disrespectful young man. And let's remember this is only his side of it.. ONE MAN'S BEATING IS ANOTHERMAN'S SPANKING. Did it give him the right to put his hands on her  HELL NO . Did he ever tell anyone about  the so called abuse? Did he ever report it to a teacher. cops. friends? I need both sides to this story.. to much missing!


Well........the police didn't get my side of the story .........neither did my town's semi-famous sheriff, who gave me a good talkin' to about Jesus and what happens to woman bashers in jail.  He shared my grandmother's penchant for harsh punishment, and placed himself as a posterboy for probity, until he was made to drink from his own cup in 2003 for embezzlement and various other fun stuff!!!!  Too bad I wasn't living back home when shit hit the fan.  His public humiliation makes me happy.

Maybe this will cheer you up, Mistress Sophia.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 11/14/2006 11:33:03 AM >

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 11:43:41 AM   
freakyfaerie


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/23/2006
Status: offline 		i do agree that the whole story must heard (both sides ) for anyone to make any kind of judgement. but i beleive that a child (which at the age of 14, u still were) is not going to lie to themselves.  the anger and hurt came from somewhere.  child abus and DV are different subjects though.

haveing been as victem of both though, i must say you are a little closed minded when it comes to the subject of DV.
i can promise you, i never "asked " to be beaten, stabbed, and burned.  I did not ask my ex to push me down stairs and cause my miscarriage.  You should take the time to look at each sitution separtly.

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 11:49:56 AM   
TreSwank


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freakyfaerie

You should take the time to look at each sitution separately.


Which is exactly what I've done with my uber-progressive stance that on a case-by-case basis, the police and courts should determine if any taunts and provocation were used by the woman which may have lead to an ass-whuppin'.  I'm not saying that ALL abused women are vindictive and antagonistic, but there are enough out there to topple the belief that the woman NEVER shares any of the blame when she is a "victim" of domestic violence.  Sometimes, contrary to popular belief, it might really be HER fault (shared with the "abuser" of course).  In those instances, legal proceedings should be dismissed, even though the man can never fix his shattered public image. 

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 11/14/2006 11:52:25 AM >

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 12:23:18 PM   
onlythewindknows


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank
Sometimes, contrary to popular belief, it might really be HER fault (shared with the "abuser" of course).  In those instances, legal proceedings should be dismissed, even though the man can never fix his shattered public image. 

you really have an ax to grind here, don't you?

You say "case by case" but clearly you seem to think that any woman who accuses a man of violence is an f**ed up bitch.  Sorry grandma was such a c**t but honestly...

Why should he care if his public image is shattered? That is just "playing the victim" huh? Move on, y'know?

You can't have it both ways. If an actual DV survivor is a Lifetime-movie-brainwashed-idiot if she calls herself a victim, then a guy is falsly accused of DV, heaven forfend, poor guy, his public image is shattered, shouldn't call himself a victim either.


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As Darth once said: "you are beaten. It is useless to resist."

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 12:32:14 PM   
TreSwank


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quote:

ORIGINAL: onlythewindknows

[you really have an ax to grind here, don't you?

You say "case by case" but clearly you seem to think that any woman who accuses a man of violence is an f**ed up bitch. 


Absolutely not.  Earlier in the post, I REPEATEDLY stated that this wasn't the case in all instances of domestic violence.  Of course I have an emotional attachment to my side of the issue, but a rhetorical attack on "your perception" of some tacit message is not the way to go about trying to discredit someone's opinion.  Given my personal disposition, I probably would have possessed the same views, even if my grandmother hadn't lied to the police about domestic violence .

Yes, I think that some men are genuine nutjob assholes that beat their wives, and deserve to be prosecuted under the full extent of the law........but I don't think that the law should be making unilateral decisions in favor of the woman in those cases where there's a REALLY thick grey area. Women are not untainted fairy-like creatures that are capable of no wrong.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 11/14/2006 12:33:55 PM >

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 12:34:35 PM   
safesaneplay2


Posts: 22
Joined: 10/2/2006
Status: offline 		my 4 children and i are survivors of domestic violence. the laws can be unfair to anyone involved.  i have seen women bait their husbands, husbands embarrass their wives in public, i even saw a woman call her husband a dumb *ss Mother F****** in Wal Mart one day. i always wondered what happened behind closed doors for i knew what happened at my house.   my advice to anyone in this situation is simply get out..we did..it was the best thing that i ever did for myself or my children. 
 
i have learned that there is a big difference between discipline and abuse and i am so thankful that i met someone to help me with this.  now my children have a better chance and will know what a loving relationship consists of and the difference between discipline out of love and abuse out of anger and the loss of self control.

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 12:39:18 PM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

TO JAIL WE GO, SCUMBAG!!!!
 


If I had my own cop series, this would be the closing line of every episode.

I think that you deliver some really sound advice safesaneplay.  I'm really happy that things have worked out well for you.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 11/14/2006 12:53:45 PM >

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 1:29:06 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Verbal taunts and provocation in a relationship, should be answered verbally ... or, how about just walk away from either the situation, or the relationship.

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 1:46:05 PM   
TreSwank


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Verbal taunts and provocation in a relationship, should be answered verbally ... or, how about just walk away from either the situation, or the relationship.


That would happen in an ideal sort of world.....but unfortunately (or fortunately) , human beings are guided by irrational impulses.  When emotions are stormy, any notions of a serene, idyllic existence are shattered. 

If human beings were rational creatures, atrocities like THIS would never occur.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 11/14/2006 1:51:18 PM >

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 1:54:38 PM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

TO JAIL WE GO, SCUMBAG!!!!
 



Unfortunately, with the attitude you currently have I foresee that as being a theme in your future.

I spent the afternoon with my adult son today. We talked of this thread. I asked him if the thought of pushing his Grandmother to the ground in the midst of a confrontation would ever be something that even crossed his mind. His response...."Are you nuts?". Me, his mother? His wife? Same response.

quote:

  Which is exactly what I've done with my uber-progressive stance that on a case-by-case basis, the police and courts should determine if any taunts and provocation were used by the woman which may have lead to an ass-whuppin'.  I'm not saying that ALL abused women are vindictive and antagonistic, but there are enough out there to topple the belief that the woman NEVER shares any of the blame when she is a "victim" of domestic violence.  Sometimes, contrary to popular belief, it might really be HER fault (shared with the "abuser" of course).  In those instances, legal proceedings should be dismissed, even though the man can never fix his shattered public image. 


I'm sorry but all of the taunting, name calling and antagonistic behavior in the world doesn't justify a physical response other than physically removing yourself from their presence. I hope that some day you learn how to be the bigger man.

"Why did he break your nose?"
"Because I called him an asshole."

Sorry....but that just doesn't fly.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 11/14/2006 1:55:54 PM >

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 2:03:05 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		You seemed like (keeping in mind that this is only my observation, and may be completely wrong) you wanted to somehow excuse physical violence in a relationship, because of tants or verbal provocation. If not excuse it, at least try to consider this as a mitigating factor. Again, I may be completely off base with that statement, and if so, I do apologize.
 
To my way of thinking, if a person isn't mature enough to handle verbal altercations in a relationship where they know they will eventually, inevitably come up ... perhaps they are not mature enough to be in relationships.

(in reply to TreSwank)
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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 3:32:33 PM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I'm sorry but all of the taunting, name calling and antagonistic behavior in the world doesn't justify a physical response other than physically removing yourself from their presence. I hope that some day you learn how to be the bigger man.

"Why did he break your nose?"
"Because I called him an asshole."

Sorry....but that just doesn't fly.


You know what would be a practical AND fun solution to this whole domestic violence dilemma?  When couples get into a heated argument, they should communicate through the medium of sock-puppets.  Ain't it pretty damn hard to get angry at a talking sock?  Honestly......how can you feel violent when talking through a sock that's stretched over your hand, in a funny, high-pitched cartoon voice?

Really......imagine a Dr Scholls Therapeutic Odor Control sock saying in a falsetto voice  "You really need to do something about your drinking, Robert.  It's tearing the family apart."

Now, the husband, who happens to be sporting a pink, snowflake patterned sock over his hand says.  "I've got it under control now, Rachel.  The boss said he'd hire me back if I started attending AA meetings and went to see a substance-abuse counselor.  Maybe we should just spend some time by ourselves to figure out just where the hell this is going."

Clean wholesome fun for all parties involved.

On a serious note, by no means do I take the issue of D.V. lightly. I don't like to see men or women get hurt because of petty arguments.............and that's where I think it's the responsibility of both parties to be considerate of the other's emotional state.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 11/14/2006 4:08:47 PM >

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 6:12:07 PM   
iodramas


Posts: 70
Joined: 11/5/2006
Status: offline 		As Darth once said,  "you are beaten.  It is useless to resist"       That's cool........for consenting adults of course,
 
Sad as it may be ...... . ..it happens ...... . .. vulnerable children are beaten by those in their charge,  who are supposed to love and nurture them as well as instill discipline.   They can't consent!   They have to endure.............whatever????????    Sometimes throughout their whole childhood they might receive uncontrolled beatings and other weird stuff from an unbalanced, alcoholic, valium munching Mother,  unable to address Her own past history of violence metted out Her.  i know that it happens ...... . .. believe me ...... . .. i know.

To end on a lighter note (or is it)?

A reporter puts the question to Gandhi (or is it Ghandi....we all know who i mean....now scattered across the Mountains i can't spell either!) on one of his visits to Europe,  "Mr. Gandhi,  what do you think about Western civilisation?"   Gandhi quips straight back, "I think it would be a very good idea"..........hhhhhmmmm....Gandhi...Gandolf......Gandolfo........?
 
Repetition ~ David Bowie....on 'Lodger'....so much for ending on a lighter note....maybe next time?      Who knows...?  Not me...?  We never lost control......you're face to face....................................................................................... 

(in reply to onlythewindknows)
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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 6:12:48 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		He has the choice of how to react to that. Why she's saying it is her stuff, not his. Just because she's being a shit doesn't mean she should be hit....same kind of logic about rape. Just because a woman is acting like a slut doesn't mean that she should be raped.

Master Fire


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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 6:32:47 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		TreSwank:
My dad used to tell me that "when you put your hands on someone it just proves that you are not smart enough to talk to them".
thompson

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 6:49:41 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Doesn't matter what she says, he hasn't got the right to elevate it to hitting. It's like the third man in rule in hockey, the person who raises the fight to the next level gets the punishment.

BTW I lived above a wife abuser in a NYC apartment for some years. Let me tell you that I never heard an argument like that. Would she scream at him about his tomcatting around? Yes. Did that justify him giving her two black eyes? No. Did it justify what if did to their kid growing up with them? Hell no. He was a drug using drug dealer and the best day for the whole building was when he went to jail.

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/14/2006 10:10:24 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		Tre, there are days that I think that you are... well, let's just say that you and I do not always see eye to eye, but I respect the fact that you are not afraid to stir the pot from time to time and that your points are often well presented.

To those that think that domestic violence and child abuse are two different things, think again. Sure they are called different things but they all take place within the home and therefore qualify as domestic violence. I do not want to start splitting hairs so I will leave that alone for the moment.

It is quite interesting to me that when Tre related his story about his grandmother that instantly judgments were made on his character and the fact that his future would include jail and all sorts of other vile things. Look, I am not an advocate of violence as a way to resolve anything, but I am a firm believer that if someone is going to scrap it up with me, be it male or female they had better be ready because this boy is not a punching bag. I have the deepest respect for women, make no mistake about that but I tire of the same "Lifetime channel" mentality that ALL men are bad and women get a free pass.
 
When I was in the heating business I was in all sorts of homes and met all sorts of different people. This one guy I remember was a fairly big guy that you wouldn't think was an abuse victim... but he was and his innocent looking wife was actually a hellcat on wheels. I witnessed her taunting him and verbally destroying his character all the while he was trying to get out of the situation and when he did finally stand his ground, she let loose and beat the shit out of him. This guy was a victim. He raised his hands to her to ward her off and she fell and cut herself on a chair. The police were called and she accused HIM of beating her and wanted him hauled off to jail. This all took place in front of me... you remember me... the guy fixing the heater... and I finally got the one cop to the side and told him the real story of what happened. The cop didn't believe me. When I told the other cop the same story I was basically told to mind my own business.
 
When the court case came, I was called to testify. I told the story to the court and I was badgered by the prosecution with little gems like, "You mean to tell me that this frail woman was beating this big man?" When I answered the question in the affirmative the assistant DA just scoffed in my face. There were other ways that he tried to twist the case into a conviction, but as it turned out; after I testified the case was thrown out.

My point is that although all of this does seem a little far fetched and that everyone can become very indignant and insist that this stuff does not happen... well, guess what... it does.

_____________________________

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I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: A Tale of Mr. Badman (Domestic Violence Rhumba) - 11/15/2006 1:08:54 AM   
poplolly


Posts: 159
Joined: 10/7/2006
From: Edmonton
Status: offline 		Everyone is so willing to judge Tre.  What he did was undoubtedly wrong but I can understand how he came to it. 

I, too, have been the victim of domestic violence:  a near-fatal choking, rape, broken nose and endless verbal abuse at the hands of a man who had vowed to "love, honour and cherish" me.  I eventually found the strength to leave.  Understand, I am not looking for sympathy; it happened, it's over.  But I was an adult.  Tre was a child.  And years of abuse will eventually lead to a reaction:  violence begets violence. 

I also eventually fought back and was nearly arrested for abusing him.  Oh, the irony!  He attacked me soon after I left him and shortly after I had undergone surgery.  In defending myself, I scratched him and it drew about 2 drops of blood.  (And no, Tre, I did not provoke him.)  When our oldest son attempted to call for help, my estranged husband threatened to break my neck.  He choked me and threw me around but did so without leaving marks.  He tried to chase our boy and I stopped him by grasping the neck of his t-shirt, and, believe me, after my surgery it was an excuciating effort. In his determination to force me release my grip, his shirt tore.  Obviously, he must've been the victim!! -- or so Law Enforcement saw it.  But he was not in the marital home and he had no business putting his hands on me or theatening our son.  There are always two sides to the tale and it's easy to judge from the outside ... but can we ever know the complete truth?  So let's not be so quick to judge Tre.  Is he angry and hurt? You bet he is!  Is he justified in his anger?  I believe so.  Do all women provoke their abusers into abusing them?  Absolutely not.  Sweeping statements do no one any service. 

Tre, you are right, each case must be judged on its own merits -- for good or ill. 

(in reply to Gauge)
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