RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (Full Version)

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petdave -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 5:53:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I'd say that would be the typical interpretation of the situation, by a CD male - ie, how good do I look in this? and by extension, how good does she look in that?

I rather imagine the idea would be, to find out how other people's reactions to her vary, when they perceive her to be a guy, as compared to their reactions to her normally. We had something in the UK in a similar vein to this a year or so back - sending celebs out into the world crossdressed/fat/old and so on, to see how things were for the opposite sex, the obese and the old, through the eyes of those who had never experienced those conditions. It was fascinating.

Its only when you do adopt the condition of the other, so convincingly that you are taken for the other, that you really see how things are. I should imagine that most CDs would recoil at the thought of really, truly, being treated as many women are in normal life. I'm not talking about some handsome stranger chatting you up in a bar - common CD fantasy as I understand it - but about being ignored, interrupted, disrespected and treated as stupid, paid less, allocated the more menial tasks and generally thought of as lesser.

E


i'm sure that's the theoretical point of the experiment. However, i maintain (and i'm actually a little surprised that you don't dismiss the show's "bit" for the same reason) that there's a substantial difference between pretending to be "other" for a day, and placing yourself in contrived situations (with a camera crew in tow?), and actually LIVING as the "other". i think we all know that physical appearance and the confidence that someone carries with them makes a huge difference in how they're perceived and treated. Could someone from the elite- good-looking, wealthy, young, and with the confidence that comes from all of that- really put themselves in the shoes of Joe Average? Would Tyrone Banks (i presume. Heh) really act, and consequently be responded to the same way as a passive, shlubby male, beaten down by an oppressive mortgage, nagging family, and twenty years at a job he despises, with nothing to look forward to but hopefully living a few years of retirement before his health or savings run out? i say no.

And trust me, i know all about "being ignored, interrupted, disrespected and treated as stupid, paid less, allocated the more menial tasks and generally thought of as lesser"... i have a liberal arts degree, no social skills, and work for a multi-billion-dollar corporation!

...dave




thompsonx -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 6:25:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikal

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji
Fact

I... do my own nails with a file

YOU HEATHEN!!! [sm=hewah.gif] Thats it. benji needs to be humanely put down... a person uses an emery board, NOT a FILE on their nails.
 
 
Mikal:
I am sure that benji (being the upscale avant garde kinda guy that he is) uses a diamond file that outlast emery boards about a zillion to one, and leave a much smoother finish.
 
thompson
 

quote:

I don't think any of us are demonized, including the bi, crossdressing punk with 5 facial piercings and (I think) about 12 tattoos. 

Stop talking about me. It's not nice and you're making my inner demons feel bad. 
quote:

 If someone started making jokes about me being gay, it would last all of one post, because there would be no reaction.

Well, of course you're gay, benji. You take great delight is wizzing on people's stuff... it makes you happy. Happy is gay. [;)]
quote:

If you look for people who demonize you, you'll find it everywhere.  Over time, your attitude gets worse, and people stop liking you, making you think they demonize you even more.

I already asked you to stop talking about my demons... they have enough issues and don't need to deal with any more.
quote:

I just know this post will change your life.

Yours,


benji

Yep, now I have to listen to the voices in my head planning nasty $#!* to send you... you just had to involve them didn't you? *blows raspberry*




LadyEllen -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 6:30:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I'd say that would be the typical interpretation of the situation, by a CD male - ie, how good do I look in this? and by extension, how good does she look in that?

I rather imagine the idea would be, to find out how other people's reactions to her vary, when they perceive her to be a guy, as compared to their reactions to her normally. We had something in the UK in a similar vein to this a year or so back - sending celebs out into the world crossdressed/fat/old and so on, to see how things were for the opposite sex, the obese and the old, through the eyes of those who had never experienced those conditions. It was fascinating.

Its only when you do adopt the condition of the other, so convincingly that you are taken for the other, that you really see how things are. I should imagine that most CDs would recoil at the thought of really, truly, being treated as many women are in normal life. I'm not talking about some handsome stranger chatting you up in a bar - common CD fantasy as I understand it - but about being ignored, interrupted, disrespected and treated as stupid, paid less, allocated the more menial tasks and generally thought of as lesser.

E


i'm sure that's the theoretical point of the experiment. However, i maintain (and i'm actually a little surprised that you don't dismiss the show's "bit" for the same reason) that there's a substantial difference between pretending to be "other" for a day, and placing yourself in contrived situations (with a camera crew in tow?), and actually LIVING as the "other". i think we all know that physical appearance and the confidence that someone carries with them makes a huge difference in how they're perceived and treated. Could someone from the elite- good-looking, wealthy, young, and with the confidence that comes from all of that- really put themselves in the shoes of Joe Average? Would Tyrone Banks (i presume. Heh) really act, and consequently be responded to the same way as a passive, shlubby male, beaten down by an oppressive mortgage, nagging family, and twenty years at a job he despises, with nothing to look forward to but hopefully living a few years of retirement before his health or savings run out? i say no.

And trust me, i know all about "being ignored, interrupted, disrespected and treated as stupid, paid less, allocated the more menial tasks and generally thought of as lesser"... i have a liberal arts degree, no social skills, and work for a multi-billion-dollar corporation!

...dave



But Dave - youre missing the point I think. Its not about how the person who is changed reacts, it is about how other people react to them. There is an argument that clothes maketh the man, but that is limited to how the man feeleth from the reactions of others unto him. What such exercises in the UK showed, was the disgraceful way that obese, disabled and old people etc experience without a murmur - but brought to full light by someone not usually subject to that treatment who thus found it noteworthy. I'm not sure how the Tyra show will do it, but the UK programmes used hidden cameras and mics to avoid the TV crew effect.

I'm sorry to hear about your job. Come work for me. We'll have fun.

E





thompsonx -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 6:35:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

What a 2 minute search yeilded.

In the United States, the FBI reported that 72.6% of hate crimes reported to police in 2004 were based on perceived sexual orientation. 61% of these attacks were against gay men, 14% against lesbians, 2% against heterosexuals and 1% against bisexuals, while attacks against GLB people at large made up 20%. [1] Violence based on perceived gender identity was not recorded in the report.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/1625500.php

http://hate-crime.website-works.com/lambda//dv97.htm

So the problem DOESN'T EXIST in your eyes? Right Popeye?

Out of sight out of mind.


[8|][8|][8|]


Sisify, that doesn't tell me anything.
That's for "hate crimes."
I watch the news everynight I haven't seen any crimes committed against crossdressers!
And if "the problem" exists it's miniscule!
You're making a mountain.............
Sure, must be the Rookies in the FBI that get that shit duty; "Terrorism Taskforce? "Ah no, ....you'll be working on the Cross Dresser Assaults Unit."
"You're fucking kidding me!"



Popeye:
It may interest you to know that the FBI recruits accountants and not muscle heads.  So there tends to be a little less of the macho assingnment criteria than you might imagine.  Promotion in the FBI is baised a more on asset recovery than on which kind of case you work on.

thompson




thompsonx -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 6:45:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

It will be viewed as pefectly okay..and welcome.


But OMG..if a male does it!!!

SHAME!!!


Ah, but what if she wants to go to bed with you dressed only as man and with the attached appendage?  Assuming her partner is het?



Lotus Song:
I do not care what Tyra is wearing or has straped on I would do it with her at high noon on the corner of walk and don't walk with her camera crew and as many who would care to watch.  She is smokin' hot....now lets change that to Jean Stapelton  aka Edith Bunker from all in the family....not until I finish ice skatintg in hell.

thompson




thompsonx -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 6:52:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikal

I'm not certain of that 'FACT'... In LotusSongs post, she was asking what if a woman wanted to have sex with her male partner, as a male (the woman is wearing a strap on and want's to use it on her male partner). I highly doubt that many men (especially vanilla) would be ok with this. I think they (the men) would have a negative reaction... after all, most het males like everyone to know that they are het - they vehemently deny having any tendencies whatsoever that they believe makes them seem gay (which includes being thought of as liking/wanting/being ok with anal sex, when it's the males own butt).
 
I think the difference in women dressing in jeans & t-shirts (traditionally men's clothing) and men dressing in skirts & blouses is that the jeans & t-shirt bit are NOW seen as gender neutral. Also, jeans are now made for women (curvy for the hips & cut to accent the leg) as are t-shirts (wet t-shirt contest... doesn't envoke the thought of men now does it?). Skirts and blouses are still very much in the feminine department in our society... but if more men wore them, it would change. Take the colour pink... not long ago (maybe 5-10 years), it was a 'gay' colour. If a man wore pink, he was gay. Period. Now, we have CEO's and het men wearing pink shirts. Not a huge surprise anymore, and not thought of as odd (unless the guy's colouring doesn't go with the pink, but that's likely only to be noticed by women & gay men).
 
I hope this makes sense... [:)]


Mikal:
We like to call it salmon not pink thankyou...[;)]

thompson




thompsonx -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 7:02:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

I think that, regardless of anything else, someone can always get attacked, verbally or physically.

However, the odds of it get smaller the more confident someone is in themselves.

We teach people how to treat us.

Yours,


benji


benji:
I have a dear friend who teaches people how to treat her. She is a 5'4" 200 pound lesbian who dresses like a man.  She has a black belt in murder and I have seen her put more than one person on the ground for a lack of courtesy.

thompson




MistressTexas -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 7:07:56 AM)

*sigh* First off..... Sissify... Get over it. Please for gods sake, get over it. And if thats not an option for you, at least stop bitching about it. I have several wonderful friends that are heavily into crossdressing. I've dated a wonderful guy heavily into crossdressing. One of my best shopping buddies is absolutely, flamboyantly *oh hell yes girlfriend* gay. Do you know what attracts me to them? Their fun loving, confident attitude. Do you know what makes me cringe every time your name pops up on a message board? Your attitude. Try presenting yourself as a happy confident male who happens to be a hardcore crossdresser, instead of a petulant whiner who can't catch a break anywhere. *rant mode off*

I think its as much the shape of the clothes as anything. For instance, womens clothes are tapered and nipped to show off the waist and chest, ass and legs. It takes such a specific type of guy who has the body to pull it off. If we ignore everything but average anatomy, men have flatter asses, wider shoulders, narrower hips, flatter chests, and a lot more hair. Therefore, "scientifically speaking," while a woman can use belts, heels, scarves etc to nip the shirts and drape the pants in an aesthetically pleasing manner, it is 10x more difficult for a male to fit a womans clothes to his body in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Therefore an effeminate male will generally have a harder time than a masculine female.
Yes there are hate crimes, and thats horrific. I believe that some people are just brought up retarded. "gay is bad, god wants us to smite the homosexuals and all that." It's crap. And to everyone out there who's experienced it, I'm sorry.




LotusSong -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 8:03:00 AM)

I tuned into the local Tyra station today and the program is not on.  It probably will be on later in the week or it's on one of the other states Tyra affiliate today.
 
From the teaser I saw last week, it looks like she is dressed in hip-hop fashion. It'll be on sometime this week..keep an eye out for it.
 
Here's a pep-talk from Tyra while we are waiting:
 
http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1370828




MissyRane -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 8:06:53 AM)

Tyra looks good in whatever she wears that's just ohmy and oo I gotta watch the next show damn when is it shown here, think I'll have to check the schedule..I think it's on Wedensdays here anyhow  Lotus[:(] they say the video is currently unavailable[:(][:(] I loved it when she snapped though..damn sexAy!




LotusSong -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 8:25:03 AM)

It works for me when I click on it. Missy . I don'tknow what to say :)




MissyRane -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 8:27:32 AM)

awwww owell I'll find it on google[:)]




LotusSong -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 8:27:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

It will be viewed as pefectly okay..and welcome.


But OMG..if a male does it!!!

SHAME!!!


Ah, but what if she wants to go to bed with you dressed only as man and with the attached appendage?  Assuming her partner is het?



Lotus Song:
I do not care what Tyra is wearing or has straped on I would do it with her at high noon on the corner of walk and don't walk with her camera crew and as many who would care to watch.  She is smokin' hot....now lets change that to Jean Stapelton  aka Edith Bunker from all in the family....not until I finish ice skatintg in hell.

thompson


But what if she wants to wear a hairy ass toupee for bear-like authenticity?  Realize also that the breasts will be bound flat...




LadyEllen -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 8:50:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
But what if she wants to wear a hairy ass toupee for bear-like authenticity?  Realize also that the breasts will be bound flat...


Yep! Thats gonna be the test.

If they manage it like they did in the UK, you wont be able to tell its a gal, at all! And neither will those whom "he" comes into with. The voice is the only thing which might give it away, but then how often do we speak that much to strangers?

Thing is, if you look at this "guy" and knowing its really a gal, and yet still fancy her as a guy - does that mean youre gay?

Thats one of those questions Adrian poses himself from time to time (my neighbour). He'll look at me and say something like "God, I wish you were a girl", or "your legs look so sexy" and so on. Followed by the qualifier "but I'm not gay".

Trying to explain that finding my feminine look etc attractive, means in fact he's het, not gay, then takes up the rest of most of the evening.

E




philosophy -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 8:59:33 AM)

...just a general point regarding male cross-dressing......two words, Eddy Izzard.




LadyEllen -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 9:02:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...just a general point regarding male cross-dressing......two words, Eddy Izzard.


Oh no! Dont get these American gals get started on him! They love him for some strange reason! Maybe the accent and his erratic behaviour.

To me, as a Brit, he comes across as a lunatic who may well be on the run from some psych home, (or let out, as he'd drive me at least, daft within an hour).

E




popeye1250 -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 9:29:59 AM)

Pet Dave, you have a Liberal Arts "Degree?"
Do they still give those things out?
"A billion dollar corporation?"
Starbucks, right?

Thompson, yes I know about the accountants who work for the FBI.
We were unfortunate enough to have to "work" with them in the Uscg occaisionally.
You could mistake them for State Dept workers.
It was like shaking hands with a girl.




LadyEllen -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 9:43:13 AM)

Popeye - you never struck me as the sort of guy who'd shake hands with a girl, to know what that'd be like?

I had you picked as the sort that just manfully took what he wanted....

Oh well, another fantasy dashed on the rocks of reality I guess

E




DigitBox -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 10:18:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sisify, you mean like; "Crossdressing man beaten senseless?"
I haven't seen that headline anywhere!
Where do you "see it all the time" in the news?
Most beatings in the news involve drugs somehow not fricking crossdressing. I mean who cares?
You're sounding like a "Victim" or something.


Plenty of differently gendered people are harrassed, beaten, and even killed for just being who they are.

This site kind of emphasizes the point ( http://gender.org/remember/ )

Interestingly today, November 20th, is the Trans Day of Rememberance, where we remember all the trans people who have been killed for being who they are.

The kind of harrassment and violence that men and sometimes women can bring down on trans people is quite vicious. Especially with guys if for some reason they get turned on by the woman they think they see, but then realize it's a man. A friend of mine had that happen to her, thankfully she was only verbally assaulted, it could have turned out much worse.




popeye1250 -> RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! (11/20/2006 10:40:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DigitBox

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sisify, you mean like; "Crossdressing man beaten senseless?"
I haven't seen that headline anywhere!
Where do you "see it all the time" in the news?
Most beatings in the news involve drugs somehow not fricking crossdressing. I mean who cares?
You're sounding like a "Victim" or something.


Plenty of differently gendered people are harrassed, beaten, and even killed for just being who they are.

This site kind of emphasizes the point ( http://gender.org/remember/ )

Interestingly today, November 20th, is the Trans Day of Rememberance, where we remember all the trans people who have been killed for being who they are.

The kind of harrassment and violence that men and sometimes women can bring down on trans people is quite vicious. Especially with guys if for some reason they get turned on by the woman they think they see, but then realize it's a man. A friend of mine had that happen to her, thankfully she was only verbally assaulted, it could have turned out much worse.


DigitBox, I've lived in this area for 2 years this past Sept and get the newspaper delivered every single morning and I've not once seen a crime like that here in the "Police Reports" section.
Nor on the news at night.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen *to crossdressers* but only that it's not of epidemic proportions like sissify would have us believe.
Now, outwardly gay males or females is quite another story although there's been no reports of attacks on them here either.
They even opened up a "Day Center" for gays here last year where they can network and meet people.
People in this area tend to be polite and have that "Southern Hospitality" and there's a LOT of people who are moving here from up North and other places.
Also, this is a "Gun State" you can get lisensed to carry a firearm concealed here and a lot of people carry them including me.
And you need to use common sense as well.
I'm not going to walk around a drug infested area with hundred dollar bills hanging out of my pockets wearing a diamond ring either.




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