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RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 6:26:45 PM

MissMistress

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Joined: 11/13/2006
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I'm going to be a little harsh here and say this guy sounds like a total tosser. Tolerance has its place and all that, but anyone who does 'heavy play', ie "beat the hell out of you" (I could be wrong about that, but that's the way the expression translates in my mind), and then doesn't want to help the quivering jelly he created become a person again is a total ass. That is taking more than giving, and I don't think that is acceptable on either side of the coin, Dom or sub. He's ignored your requests and comments when you took special care to spell them out to him, and that says to me that he couldn't give a damn, just as long as you present yourself for his use again. Just my two cents.

< Message edited by MissMistress -- 11/27/2006 6:27:44 PM >

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 6:33:20 PM

wingedangel

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Again, thank you to everyone who has shared their opinion. You have given me much to consider. Kalira, I had never thought of that before. It is definitely something to ask him about, and I am trying to keep the lines of communication open. I feel I owe it to him, as I am the one who has kept silent and tried to deal with it on my own without complaining for close to two years now (we have had six visits in that time). I believe I have a responsibility to try to re-negotiate this part of the relationship as I have contributed to this situation. I do believe he also has a responsibility in this. He could have been more communicative himself and asked why there was a breakdown in communication, but someone has to make the first move to try and fix things.

I have determined I will not see him again until this is resolved. I am willing to compromise if this is, as Kalira suggested, his was of dealing with it. As long as I know why and if we can reach an agreement that I will not be left to wonder if he is pleased or not. I am not willing to go without an assurance that I won't be left to worry I have disappointed him. I don't require coddling, I do require some kind of feedback.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 6:37:59 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMistress
Tolerance has its place and all that, but anyone who does 'heavy play', ie "beat the hell out of you" (I could be wrong about that, but that's the way the expression translates in my mind), and then doesn't want to help the quivering jelly he created become a person again is a total ass.

And that's completely wrong.

Sometimes, that's EXACTLY the sort of scene that I want and will get me into the best headspace ever.

He's not bad for not giving aftercare, or giving it in the traditional sense. As long as he's honest about expectations ahead of time, it's all good.

That's what consent is about.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 6:41:32 PM

MissMistress

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I follow, except that in this case, it was not a discussed thing. Clearly she is upset and disturbed, and clearly he is not being attentive to her needs at a time when she is very vulnerable. I think that behaviour is deplorable.

If it was something that turned them both on, then definitely, beat her bloody then walk out the front door and drive back across country.

But it's not. So he's an ass.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 6:41:57 PM

theRose4U

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quote:

I am torn as to what I want to do. On one hand, I really, really want the intensity of the play we do. On the other, I am not content to just feel cast aside when he is finished. I don't think casual play necessarily has to be so cold and distant, but I do have doubts as to whether he thinks the same way.

There are a couple things that come to mind:
1) If you break your toys they won't want to play with you anymore.
2) If you want the play and know that aftercare isn't part of his MO why not play where you have a friend designated as the helper specifically for the care that he seems to not want to be part of? Yes I understand this means him getting on a plane. If he isn't willing to fly out and play on your turf so that you feel cared for (someone else doing his dirty work) he's made the decision for you.
3) If there's anything I've learned it's that normal is what you make of it. If you frequently allow something to happen it's normal for you.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 7:39:05 PM

MasterHyde

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I've read the other responses here, and I agree with most of them. If this is his style, you probably can't expect him to change. However, you did say that you've been silent and letting this fester for two years. Maybe he doesn't know what you really need. I think you've done the right thing in bringing it up now. Hopefully, you can have a serious discussion and come to some kind of understanding so your next visit with him will be more satisfying all around.

As far as his actions being "common" I don't know. I can tell you that I'm a moderate to heavy player myself, and I still involve a lot of cuddling, talking, and other types of aftercare. As much as I love pushing someone's limits during the scene, it's still important to me afterwards to know that she's OK and that she understands what I just did to her was a pleasure for me, and not some cruel joke or punishment. I can be a cold, merciless bastard at times. Afterwards, though, I need to reconnect with the person I just abused. I need to let her know I appreciate her suffering. At the same time, I like to know that she appreciates me as well.

For me, the ideal scene has her begging for mercy, not getting any, and afterwards being grateful that she didn't. I know myself, I'm always grateful when this happens.

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Post #: 26

RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:39:33 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMistress

I follow, except that in this case, it was not a discussed thing. Clearly she is upset and disturbed, and clearly he is not being attentive to her needs at a time when she is very vulnerable. I think that behaviour is deplorable.

If it was something that turned them both on, then definitely, beat her bloody then walk out the front door and drive back across country.

But it's not. So he's an ass.

And yet, she has said that in two years she has not once told him this is a problem for her. So I disagree. Not an ass.

My Master provides very little after care, if any. It used to disturb me greatly. It is not in his nature to do so. He is the most awesome man I have ever met and has brought my life to a place I never envisioned. But he does not provide after care. What to do? With his help, I learned to not need it. Where I used to become rather distraught at not receiving it, now I am absolutely fine for not receiving it. I adjusted, and all is well.

There is a Buddhist philosphy that says suffering comes from desire. When we suffer, it is because we are not getting what we desire, whatever that may be. So if we wish to not suffer, we must change our desires. I did not fundamentally change who I am. I remain a touchy-feely, mushy, sap of a person. But I no longer need hin to come coo in my ear just because he used me hard.

Now, mine is a 2 1/2 year intense and intimate relationship. I have not played casually with someone on my own, so that dynamic is quite different. I agree with those who told the OP either change your desire or move to someone else, because she is not going to change him. However...withholding her distress for two years does nothing to help the situation.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/27/2006 11:42:31 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wingedangel
I don't require coddling, I do require some kind of feedback.

I just saw this part. I agree with you about feedback. While my Master isn't big in the after care scenario, he does always tell me I have pleased him well, and that alone will rock my world. I am glad you are planning to talk to him about this. If it is scary to talk to him directly, perhaps you can journal thoughts to yourself about it, and then email that piece.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/28/2006 1:01:16 AM

sleazy

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Personally I wouldnt (perhaps even couldnt) just turn round and leave afterwards without making sure everything was good and "normality" resumed. For a short scene that could mean a hug and a snack etc, in the past after a particularly intense experience it actually took 3 full days for us both to be in a fit state to go out the door and deal with the rest of the world.

If you need the aftercare, and it appears you do, you should make sure it is arranged as part of the routine, be it with this particular person or another if the current partner cannot/will not make the experience complete for you. Being submissive does not mean you cant have hopes and expectations as to how an experience should be overall.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/28/2006 2:28:50 AM

Quivver

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It sounds like your head is still working from the stand point of a committed relationship.
Theres nothing wrong with that, except that you've chosen to play casualy but havent changed your outlook.
Is it possible you've looked at this casual play partner as a friend, and found less then you'd desire from the friendship?
There's no easy answer. And communication has to be a two way street or all your doing is masterbating words and flogging yourself. Search whats inside you, you'll find your answers.

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/28/2006 4:53:37 AM

LeatherBentOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL:

I'm thinking that this, ultimately, is irresponsible behavior on the part of the dominant. When two people play, in SM terms, it is apparent that the body 'trauma' is going to occur. People who know what they are doing accept that risk and continue doing what they do. But some people need to understand that bodyplay is not 'all' about the body. The reason why you enjoy what you do has as much, if not more, to do with how it makes you 'feel', in your mind as well as your body.

Jeff

I'm in total agreement here that aftercare is a responsibility of a Dominant and personally I'd rather err on the safe side and provide it unless it is negotiated that the sub doesn't want or need aftercare. Emotional/mental safety is as important and the physical safety of a sub. I'm hoping that Dominants who casually play also check in with a sub a few days following play to account for sub drop as well.

LBO

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RE: normal behavior? - 11/28/2006 11:53:59 AM

DsGUARDIAN

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2,500 miles away? There is not much chance that can cover your needs. Find some One local.

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