RE: sadism and masochism

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 11:10:14 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly
The sadist imo wants to deliver pain for, yes his own satisfaction, but also because he knows he's feeding the masochist what the masochist is hungry for. Some masochists may not like the pain but he wants the pain and the torture or else he would not be there receiving it. It would cease to exist.

You're assuming the sadist is playing with a masochist. Many sadists don't play with masochists- they don't want the other person to be hungry for it.

I don't want pain or torture. But I accept it. I hate pain, but all of my ex-owners were heavy sadists. They loved knowing I hated what they did to me.

quote:

So the only thing the pain does for them is make them hurt which means they want the hurt (for their own reasons) or else why would they agree to it.

Because they want to obey and please.

Wanting to obey and please is hardly the same as wanting to be in pain.

quote:

Again there's no giving pain unless there's a taking of pain and since the sadist engages in mutually consented to activies with the masochists - the masochist is getting what he wants.

Again, only if playing with a masochist. As the OP notes so well- if a sadist is giving the masochist what they want, are they really being sadistic? IMO no, they are being fluffy sadists.

Yes, it's mutually consented that the other person ACCEPTS the pain. That should not at all suggest that the person WANTS the pain.

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 12:33:42 PM

MistressDolly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross: You're assuming the sadist is playing with a masochist.

Not really. I know a sadist plays with both but I am using "masochist" for this discussion primarily.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross: Because they want to obey and please.

Right - which is what I wrote: "...demonstrate the depth of his devotion to his master (among other things)."

and which I got the impression you were in disagreement when you said:
"...but it's not at all what the other person desires, they don't want the pain to feel alive, to prove any submission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross: Wanting to obey and please is hardly the same as wanting to be in pain.

I didnt say is it the same. I stated "Some masochists may not like the pain .....".
DId you think I said anywhere that it is the same.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross: if a sadist is giving the masochist what they want, are they really being sadistic? IMO no, they are being fluffy sadists..

I very much disagree, lol. A sadist could give pain - as I stated: for his OWN pleasure - and give for the masochist's as well. I don't think that's being a "fluffy" sadist at all. lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatrossYes, it's mutually consented that the other person ACCEPTS the pain. That should not at all suggest that the person WANTS the pain.

Again, I wrote some don't necessarily want it.

But take it to show their devotion, etc...

< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 11/29/2006 12:35:05 PM >

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 12:48:56 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly
Right - which is what I wrote: "...demonstrate the depth of his devotion to his master (among other things)."

I know for me, I dont do it to show any depth of devotion to anyone. I'm doing it because I am devoted and it's what he has ordered. I don't feel a desire to show it, and certainly would not choose to do it through pain.

quote:

I very much disagree, lol. A sadist could give pain - as I stated: for his OWN pleasure - and give for the masochist's as well. I don't think that's being a "fluffy" sadist at all. lol.

If the masochist is enjoying the pain, then it's pleasureable for them. Certainly sadists CAN play with masochists and make the experience painful, but then they wouldn't be getting their masochistic pleasure- they'd be in pain.

quote:

But take it to show their devotion, etc...

I'm sure some take pain as a test, as a show, as an expression of love.

For me it's solely about obedience and submission.

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 1:04:21 PM

RUpainsmith

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I suppose it's another thread where personal definitions of terms take precedence over any other theme. In my mind, a sadist is one who gets excited (not necessarily sexually) from inflicting pain, regardless of whether it is desired by the other person, enjoyed, forced, etc. A massochist gets excited by receiving pain. To me, just because a massochist enjoys the sensations inflicted, that does not mean the sadist's joy is diminished as a result.

I think this is an issue of contrary diction, not contradiction.

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 2:01:27 PM

aurora31

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quote:

But I love the marks, the attention, the being passive, the endurance, the submission for THEIR pleasure, the fear, the being used....I love all of those INDIRECTLY. So for me, it's the gaining of all of those indirect things that make the pain experience worthwhile for me.

This So much describes how I feel. I have a high pain tolerance and enjoy pain to a point. I love to be pushed past that point. I get the most pleasure and satisfaction knowing that I have endured and in doing so have given the Top pleasure. I hate to be blind folded at times. I like to watch the look on the tops face as I yell, scream, beg and cuss. I love the chills that run down my spine as he whispers in my ear "owe is not a safe word" At that point in time when the pain is so intense all I want is for it to stop yet I want it to go on forever. I hope this makes sense.

aurora

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 2:19:03 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aurora31
This So much describes how I feel. I have a high pain tolerance and enjoy pain to a point. I love to be pushed past that point. I get the most pleasure and satisfaction knowing that I have endured and in doing so have given the Top pleasure. I hate to be blind folded at times. I like to watch the look on the tops face as I yell, scream, beg and cuss. I love the chills that run down my spine as he whispers in my ear "owe is not a safe word" At that point in time when the pain is so intense all I want is for it to stop yet I want it to go on forever. I hope this makes sense.

aurora

Hmmm to a point. I don't believe I "grok" your experience, but I do feel your intensity and passion for it within yourself.

I don't love to be pushed past that point, I could seriously live quite happily never to be put in physical pain again. There's nothing I'm LIKING about what's going on when I'm being put in pain. I can deal with it, I put myself through it, and I love everything else about it- but at that moment of pain, I hate/anger/despise/only desire for it to end.

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 5:13:05 PM

onlythewindknows

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what about a masochist submissive who sadistically enjoys seeing her Dominant feel pain over the fact that he is trying to inflict pain on her but she is enjoying it and so he masochistically stops playing with her because she, in fact, hurt him by enjoying what was supposed to be inflicted pain and then she masochistically feels hurt that he has stopped playing with her but still sadistically enjoys the fact that he is now feeling masochistic over the fact that he is no longer playing with her which only brings out more of his sadism because he now is feeling quite overwhelmed with the feeling of wanting to tie her up again and teach her a lesson which she masochistically senses and it further feeds her sense of wanting to be under his power again which he senses which makes him sadistically ignrore her further which feeds her sadistically wanting him to feel masochistic about no longer playing with her but it is really masochistic on her part because she is feeling beat up on herself that she was so sadistic towards him that he stopped playing with her which only feeds his sense of sadistm that she is feeling beat up on herself that she must have done something to cause him to not want to play with her anymore which makes her feel even more gloriously masochistic that he is enjoying the fact that she is beating up on herself emotionally which feeds his sense of sadism that she is enjoying that she is masochistically beating up on herself which only causes her to feel sadistic towards him which causes her to decide not to feel anything about him because she secretly wants him to not have a chance to feel sadistic towards her which only feeds her own sense of masochism towards herself because she feels bad that she felt anything sadistic towards him at all which makes him feel more sadistic because now she is feeling masochistic over feeling bad that she felt sadistic towards him so he then makes moves towards her to be more sadistic towards her but now she is feeling mostly sadistic which makes him feel more masochistic which makes him feel more sadistic because he really does not like anyone, especially a bratty submissive make him feel masochistic which makes her feel more masochistic because she knows she had some part in turning his sadistic masochism back into sadism so then he causes her to feel more pain to offset the fact that she was playing games with him except that she wasn't she was only trying to show him how totally submissive she really truly is so she gives into his punishment even though she is really enjoying it and he....

oy vey.

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RE: sadism and masochism - 11/29/2006 7:07:52 PM

Denny17

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Thats what im talking about!!! Prove my devotion!!! my Mistress enjoyed giving me pain she liked it for her own self but even more she liked it because she new i hated it but loved it for it givng me a way to show her my obedience and submission to her. Even if i did like it she would still loved giving it even so. Fluffy? Negative. Never sexual for me only only gawd alwful shrinkage dammit. I aint a massochist but ill undertake anything she wants to give my *ahem* pussyass.

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