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Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 9:53:52 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		Do you value the words of those folks who cannot express themselves clearly (clarity in train of thought not grammar and/or spelling)?   Do you give serious consideration to the thoughts of people who often contradict themselves?   For example, this was a statement from a thread in a post in the Ask A Master forum:  
quote:


Reading is a good start and gathering other peoples opinions, views, experiences is also a great compliment to reading actual books on the subject.  …..   As far  as your interest( bondage, humliation, spankings, etc) go , i recommend reading up on those interest, learning some pointers from people who have experienced them., etc to avoid some common "mistakes"

I think taking in other peoples different views and opinions are by far the best resource material, as you gain knowledge from many sources, most of which are first hand experinences( hands on experience).


The same person then posted these statements in response to a different post in the Ask A Master Forum  
quote:


. I also dont care " how you do things" or how you credit discredit or justify your life or anyone elses. your approval and abilities mean nothing to me. You will in time( maybe) prove you are a compenent person in this lifestyle……..until  then your opinion is taken lightly in regards to me. and thats all ive seen so far is a bunch of opinions as is common in this lifestyle.
   
quote:

I spend more time living the lifestyle than looking up  references to or about it.
   
quote:

Second, you do realize the books, manuals websites and everything else you read  that are considered research and  resources for this topic are OPINIONS given by said authors. ……… Other than that learning this or that , research here. going to castledom  Going to bobs BDSM for beginners is someone opinion.  so  what you  "reference Dom/subs "are doing is using someone elses opinion as a reference instead of formulating your own opinion.  Their is no one person qualified in BDSM, no master ,no grand master, no super universal grand master to say what/ whos opinions are right or wrong. that is someone giving their opinion on someone elses opinion. BDSM is or was last time i looked an open community with  extremely loose guidelines. bascially if you were the B,D S, or the M ( and even the meaning of those letters have been debated. )  you were into BDSM. and everyone with interest in those was accepted with open arms.
    The train of thought is confusing enough but the inconsistency of the thoughts is totally discrediting.       PS: Poor grammar and obvious misspellings squick me out but I can usually decipher the thoughts (from first hand experience with Master Archer).  

< Message edited by Elegant -- 12/6/2006 9:54:36 AM >

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Elegant
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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 9:59:45 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		In an forum in which text is the sole form of communication, how well one can manipulate that media WILL affect how they are perceived and taken seriously.

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:00:07 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		There is a thread in stupidity right now about, what guidelines would you give someone new to collarme.

My advice was watch a person and their posts for the first 1000 posts they make.  You will know by then they are full of crap or someone you could consider a friend.

Many here are full of crap. 

Myself, I'm lazy...I have two broken fingers as well so typing is not my best anymore.  I have a lot more typo's...so you'd have to consider people like me as well.  Although, if you read my posts you'd know I was typing with two broken fingers...so the 1000 post rule still stands.

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:05:32 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		well i think he really does not contradict him/herself.
 
i think that reading is a good place to start in the lifestyle....and when you are new you ravenously devour everthing...and then you move to real life...and you can easily never pick up a book again...
 
same with doctors,  and lawyers...you learn your job skills in your classes but nothing prepares you for your first courtroom, ER  like real life...
 
so to answer you question i always give folks the benefit of the doubt on just about everything....i do it because i like living my life better that way, then seeking out reasons to not trust or discredit folks...
 
but i know i am different.
 
most people would not send customers home with merchandise with only a promise for a check when they got home either but i have done thousands of dollars of business that way...and never been burned.....
 
 

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:06:11 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		I've never had trouble following your train of thought sub4hire. And, even with the broken fingers your typos are not abundant.

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Elegant
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http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:08:56 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		eeep how did you do that?

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:13:25 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		To answer the title question...I wouldnt say that the fact that it's in text necessarily discredits a person.  When I see someone arguing their own argument, (in person or text) then contradicting themselves, sort of like a dog chasing it's own tail, I tend to think they are either in the process of discovering something about themselves that they didn't realize, or they are trying to cover up the fact that someone came along and blew a big fat hole in their argument. 

I think I have found myself at different times on different days, feeling differently about something because maybe my viewpoint has been changed by a thought, someone's words, an experience, or even just my mood.  I think if we really searched we could all put together pieces of text of ourselves in contradictions, depending on the positions we were taking and what reasons that position was being discussed.




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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:13:27 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I'm sorry - I read all the quotations, but didnt see any contradiction there?

Whoever this is seems to be advising a newbie to research in the first snip, then speaking from the point of view of someone experienced and then dealing with the shortcomings of research.

This could seem contradictory, but its only how teachers are with their students; they start by getting the students to learn what exists now, then teach the students to think for themselves and get out and find out for themselves.

The only thing one could pull the writer up for might be the assumption that he/she is in a position to be a teacher, but then he/she deals with that in the last snip anyway.

E

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:15:14 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		Perhaps I am having a problem because it is difficult to follow this persons train of thought.

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:18:14 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		And another thing ('cause I forgot!)

We have on CM a number of members who have difficulties in expressing themselves in this medium, for various reasons.

The correct way to deal with their posts, is to spend more time on them - not to dismiss the poster, or worse as I saw in one instance, to insult them over their issues with the medium.

But that said, anyone can post BS from time to time, but then we have such good detectors around here, it rarely escapes notice.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:18:55 AM   
strangefruit


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		To me...it can. And I believe I know what thread you are speaking about. I think.

Making typos is one thing.
Having English as a second language is another thing or having some sort of impairment.
I completely and utterly understand that.

It's when you have a complete disreguard for the English language, and could care less about the way you come across that bother's me.
I can't take a person, namely a person that boasts of being a Master or Trainer of over a hundred or so slaves seriously when he can't even spell 'competent' and yet boasts about being such. I'll go a step further to say that I discredit them even more when they can't even be bothered to CARE enough to make sure that they are being understood.

"CUM SLVE. LET ME MSTR U. SRVE ME WELL AND THEIR WILL BE REWORDS"

Excuse me while I run from you now.

I can't take that person seriously and more than likely I won't read past the second paragraph.

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:20:26 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		You know I believe it depends on the context. People can take anyone's writing and discredit them and show they contradict themselves over time... we all do this, especially if we offer an opinion on a case by case basis, and consider ourselves to be evolving. I do not know if these responses were taken from the same thread, the same day, the same week, the same year... so it is hard to comment on this specific case

I believe everyone has the propensity to be a little hypocritical... nothing like parenthood will demonstrate this more clearly

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:21:36 AM   
Elegant


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Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I believe everyone has the propensity to be a little hypocritical... nothing like parenthood will demonstrate this more clearly


So true!!! grin


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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:21:38 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Do you value the words of those folks who cannot express themselves clearly (clarity in train of thought not grammar and/or spelling)?



If someone's writing makes me laugh, that's has some small value .. if it makes me think, that has large value. If it helps me further my personal growth, that has the greatest value of all. If it makes me shake my head and wonder at what happened to the gene pool, that holds no value and is a waste of my time.

quote:

 Do you give serious consideration to the thoughts of people who often contradict themselves?  


Since you qualified that with the word 'often' I'd have to say no. I do believe that people, as they learn and grow, can have a change of heart on an issue, maybe someone says something which causes them to rethink a previous ideal, thought or life choice (things along those lines) but such is not a common thing, but rather less common because anyone on this forum was a fully formed adult when they arrived and should have had the basics down already. A little tweaking on occasion, some growth, all good, but often contradicting yourself without seeming explanation for it doesn't make sense. As a literalist, that's hard for me to grasp and equally hard for me to apply serious consideration to such a person.

Celeste



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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:24:54 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I believe everyone has the propensity to be a little hypocritical... nothing like parenthood will demonstrate this more clearly

For me the key is seeing and admitting it openly.  I'm pretty good at being able to see my irrationalities and state them openly. 

However, I also know that it DOES weaken my position and possible influence on that particular topic.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:25:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOLOLOLOLOLOL,

I am SO fucked on this thread.

Ron
(hope I at least spelled it all right.)

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:31:10 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOLOLOLOLOLOL,

I am SO fucked on this thread.

Ron
(hope I at least spelled it all right.)


Fucked on just this thread?   grin    I though you were fucked in general.


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Elegant
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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:33:51 AM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline 		     If someone is inconsistant, I can accept that to a point simply because with the changing of people as they grow, some things are never consistant---limits for example.   If someone were to read posts I wrote say 5 years ago they would not reflect how I am now.  I've changed therefore I have not been consistant in all of my thoughts and ideas.   But I do get what you are saying, if someone is inconsistant repeatedly in a day or a week---yes that sort of reflects badly. 
   The written presentation can be very damaging, simply because it's there.   One can dispute the spoken word provided there is no recording of it to back it up but it's difficult to dispute something in writing especially if a copy of it remains.  
    One of the biggest pet peeves I have regarding the written word is the usage of I.   If a submissive is writing 'i' as a pronoun, I really don't have a problem with it.   I occasionally switch between the two simply because at work, when writing an email or IM to someone (yep we communicate most often by IM at my job) it looks pretty silly for me to write i versus I and in my emails, spell check automatically corrects i.   But when I see a 'Dom' switch the two consistantly in one post, or email or whatever, I begin to wonder.    If this lifestyle didn't exsist with the I/i would it still be common to switch between the two.   When a see a Dom write "i want to dominate You and you will obey Me.   I am an experienced Dom and i have been in the lifestyle 110 years"---I begin to wonder if he is just sloppy in the way he writes or is he really a switch.  
     So yes in some ways a presentation can really discredit a person.   For me personally, I have said, "Sorry not interested" to many who came across negatively in the way they presented themselves in an email or IM and I am not speaking merely of the ones who are cyber trolls and intent on whacking off to a conversation.  
      Good topic idea btw.

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:38:09 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Perhaps I am having a problem because it is difficult to follow this persons train of thought.


Sometimes there really is no train of thought and a person isn't even clear on their own position.  (Im not saying thats the case here in particular).  Its just another example of communication barriers.

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RE: Can written presentation discredit a person? - 12/6/2006 10:39:54 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I am one of the worst offenders on this site for typos...
 
However, I think that my words come accorss somewhat clearly and I tend to go back after posting and edit what I see that is incorrect when I have the time -
 
And, I know some people have an issue with coginitive expression here (and, in other venues) - those folks I most often skip reading unless they are speaking directly to myself or a post of interest.
 
But, if someone clearly states that they cannot be bothered at all to try and communicate better (grammar and/or spelling  vs. typos) and consider that beneath them, and they appear to have the ability - it is tatamount to stating that:
1. What they have to say is BS anyway and they are wasting their time writing it as if it is incomprehensible they do not care
2. They do not respect the person who might be reading it
3. They are lazy.
 
Just my prejudices showing.
 
~J

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